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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: ingsy on July 22, 2007, 07:46:24 PM
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If money did not matter - what pair of omni mics would you buy for outdoor and on-stage recording?
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dpa 4060's or 4061's. Great sound and ruggedly built, totally stealthable, as well....
go with the real dpa's not the ones by Coresound.
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Make that DPA 4006 TL......even better....
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Microtech Gefell M270. The best microphones for concert recording I have ever heard. Money does not become an object with these if you want to sell an organ or two to finance them.
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Microtech Gefell M270. The best microphones for concert recording I have ever heard. Money does not become an object with these if you want to sell an organ or two to finance them.
agree with jamie. argument begins and ends with the MG Omnis...best omnis I have ever heard
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neumann m50.
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new: Sonodore CCM-65 and RCM-402-48V http://www.sonodore.com/
vintage: m50.
the schoeps mk2s is really nice as well.
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Neumann KM53
Although, I have lately become rather fond of the AKG ck22 capsules for the 45x series bodies.
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different musical genre, different venue, different mics
QFT. I'm getting spectacular results with my mbho omni's in on stage jazz situations. I suspect no one would bother to mention those here, but they're pulling off some great noise!
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Microtech Gefell M270. The best microphones for concert recording I have ever heard. Money does not become an object with these if you want to sell an organ or two to finance them.
How much are Gefell omni capsules? Anyone?
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earthworks ;)
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Sennheiser MKH 20 + Jecklin Disc
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I only have 414's so they are my favorite. ;D
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dpa4052/4053, or the 4006 TL like otherone recommended. ;D
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earthworks ;)
See, I like how you think ;D
However, that said, I think Moke is right. You have to use the right mic in the right situation.
Wayne
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I LOVE my DPA 4061´s ...;)
of course there is NO perfect mic for all different kinds of concerts and venues, but the dpa 4061 comes very close to the perfect one IMHO ;) even at crowdy outdoor shows ;). and yes, I´m 100% stealthing only.....
(http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/1922/cimg1011sb5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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Microtech Gefell M270. The best microphones for concert recording I have ever heard. Money does not become an object with these if you want to sell an organ or two to finance them.
How much are Gefell omni capsules? Anyone?
Haven't checked lately, but they were around $750 per capsule when the dollar was a lot stronger. I wouldn't be surprised if they are approaching $900 per capsule at this point with the state of the dollar against the Euro.
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akg 392's It's the only omni's I own.... but I like em alot.
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Microtech Gefell M270. The best microphones for concert recording I have ever heard. Money does not become an object with these if you want to sell an organ or two to finance them.
agree with jamie. argument begins and ends with the MG Omnis...best omnis I have ever heard
i have the m27 caps - but sold my other mgs a few years ago. i was keeping the caps in hopes of a JK labs setup - but that didn't work out so well. i then kept them for a mg nbox setup, but i am not sure when or if that will come out. so...i was thinking about selling the caps to JAson (he uses them a lot now anyway), then buying some other omnis (Geffel M296 or M960). the thing is, i can't imagine liking anything more than the m270s; so i might just continue to borrow bodies when i need them (not much these days) and then continue to wait for the nbox to come out. thanks everyone for responding. cheers, ingsy
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I like my Avensons, but then again, they are the only ones I have used a whole lot :)
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I like my Avensons, but then again, they are the only ones I have used a whole lot :)
They may not be the "best", but Avensons are outstanding mics for the money. I think they sound as good as Earthworks in many instances.
Ours really saved our butts on a carillon recording we made last Christmas. The low bell mics were completely unusable due to mechanical noise - luckily the Avensons captured everything beautifully from the mid-bell position. The recording will be released this holiday season, too!
These are highly recommended mics, and I would not hesitate to use them in just about any situation.
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If money did not matter - what pair of omni mics would you buy for outdoor and on-stage recording?
The best omni mics I have ever used or heard are DPA 4007 end of story... Nothing is better IMO.
Chris
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They may not be the "best", but Avensons are outstanding mics for the money. I think they sound as good as Earthworks in many instances.
I'll most definitely agree with that statement. I find myself running mine more and more and loving the recordings. Excellent mics for the money.
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If money did not matter - what pair of omni mics would you buy for outdoor and on-stage recording?
The best omni mics I have ever used or heard are DPA 4007 end of story... Nothing is better IMO.
Chris
ok, but hard to stealth with ;D.
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Oh, I forgot. I think the best sounding aud recording I've ever heard was a Healy patterned Nak 700 Omni. Claypool show outdoors from 2000 or so. I've heard multiple Nak 700 omni recordings and they're simply fantastic.
The Nak 300's are solid, too.
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The best omni mics I have ever used or heard are DPA 4007 end of story... Nothing is better IMO.
Chris
Hi Chris, have you tried the DPA 4003 ? I have both a pair of 4007 and a pair of 4003, and well, the 07-s hardly ever comes out. I tend to use them mostly as spot mics on timpani.
Gunnar
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The best omni mics I have ever used or heard are DPA 4007 end of story... Nothing is better IMO.
Chris
Hi Chris, have you tried the DPA 4003 ? I have both a pair of 4007 and a pair of 4003, and well, the 07-s hardly ever comes out. I tend to use them mostly as spot mics on timpani.
Gunnar
I have never used the 4003 but I will buy your 4007 from you :)
Chris
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Hmm. Well. Not what I intended. Send me a PM whith an offer and I´ll scratch my head and see if it will work. Mind you this pair is from 1983, at time i was still the Bruel&Kjaer brand. Not quite sure how to do it, but I live in Sweden so there will probably be a bit of transport and duty or whatever.
Gunnar
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IMO QTC-50's are some of the "purist" mic's made.
You better hope they got it dialed in as these mic's are not forgiving AT ALL.
But what ya hear is what your gonna get on tape.
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dpa4052/4053, or the 4006 TL like otherone recommended. ;D
Yeh DPA4052s are great mics in a dull venue because they are bright sounding mics. In a large bright high ceiling venue (e.g. Church) Schoeps CCM2S/MK2S sounds better. I've got both and I use different omnis in different venue depending on the acoustics of the hall.
Anyone tried the DPA's large diaphragm 4041-SP?
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MKH 20 - nothing can beat an RF condenser for outdoor work.
I have had mine for over 20 years and have yet to find anything better (even DPAs and they *are* good).
But I am looking forward to listening to the new, tiny, MKH 8020, due in the next few weeks.
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The best omni mics I have ever used or heard are DPA 4007 end of story... Nothing is better IMO.
Chris
i name this mic dpa killa :-* :-* :-*
:minigun: :minigun: :minigun:
another ts member has the "1 inch" DPA killa's
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The best omni mics I have ever used or heard are DPA 4007 end of story... Nothing is better IMO.
Chris
i name this mic dpa killa :-* :-* :-*
:minigun: :minigun: :minigun:
another ts member has the "1 inch" DPA killa's
looks like a weapon! ;D
launch your rocket! ::)
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The best omni mics I have ever used or heard are DPA 4007 end of story... Nothing is better IMO.
Chris
i name this mic dpa killa :-* :-* :-*
:minigun: :minigun: :minigun:
another ts member has the "1 inch" DPA killa's
looks like a weapon! ;D
launch your rocket! ::)
it's a combination of east-german ex-commie handcraft and californian mic guru. The true Perestroika mic!
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i name this mic dpa killa :-* :-* :-*
:minigun: :minigun: :minigun:
+T to anyone here who can identify this mic. >:D
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josephson body / dpa omni - paired
close. I gave you a +t anyway for being half right! ;D
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josephson body / dpa omni - paired
close. I gave you a +t anyway for being half right! ;D
i could use the dpa b&k omni..but the diaphgram is much heavier (b&k adds another layer of diagphram against corrosion)
;D
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fixed it..sorry for the confusion ;D
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fixed it..sorry for the confusion ;D
OK, now you're confusing me. Is that not a Gefell capsule?
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yes it is.....
a gefell mk202..
i referring to Moke..as dpa does not make any measurement capsules.
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Please: It's fundamentally impossible for any one type of omnidirectional microphone to be optimal in all recording situations.
Problem #1: If the microphone is to remain fully omnidirectional at the highest audible frequencies, it must have a very small capsule. Unfortunately, then it won't be quiet enough to meet the normal requirements of most modern recording (especially digital).
Problem #2: Conversely, a normal-sized (say 20 - 25 mm diameter) small-diaphragm condenser microphone with adequate signal-to-noise ratio cannot be fully omnidirectional at the highest audible frequencies; typically there will be a significant narrowing of its directional pattern above, say, 5 - 8 kHz. Thus the off-axis response is typically about 6 dB below the on-axis response at high frequencies.
Problem #3: The farther away you get from the sources of sound in a room, the more times (on average) the sound that reaches your microphones will have bounced off the floor, ceiling, walls, furniture, people, etc. first, and the more the high frequency content of that sound will have been absorbed in the process. For that reason among others, the diffuse sound in a room is usually quite a bit less bright-sounding than the direct sound in the same room. This only multiplies problem #2.
As a result, for acoustical measurement work two main, contrasting types of omnidirectional condenser microphone are typically produced: free-field equalized (i.e. for use where direct sound predominates--either in an anechoic environment, or outdoors, or very close to the sound sources) and diffuse-field equalized (i.e. for use in reverberant environments at a distance from the sound source where reflected sound energy predominates). The free-field type could have flat response on axis (and by implication a response rolloff off axis) while the diffuse-field type may have a significant on-axis elevation, but this won't sound harsh or unnatural when the microphone is actually used in a diffuse sound field, because the sound itself will be rolled off and because it will mostly arrive off-axis.
Please see the two attached frequency response graphs below, which are from Neumann, and note that the two microphones have nearly identical polar response. The KM 131 has free-field equalization and measures very flat on axis (conventional frequency response measurements are free-field measurements, or at least they're supposed to be), while the KM 130 has diffuse-field equalization and would measure close to flat if we were looking at its integrated response considering all possible angles of incidence--but since the published curve is a 0-degree free-field measurement instead, it shows a substantial high-frequency peak. The Schoeps counterparts would be the MK 2 and MK 3 capsules respectively, or the CCM 2 and CCM 3 microphones. DPA has counterparts, too, which I'm sure someone will eagerly post (I don't know their product line at all well).
The thing is, most of the time when you record music, you're somewhere between these two extreme conditions--so you want microphones whose frequency response is somewhere between free-field and diffuse-field equalization. Exactly where along that spectrum will depend on where you intend to place the microphones and what the acoustical environment will be like, as well as personal taste and preference. As a result, one type of omnidirectional microphone cannot possibly be optimal in all recording situations, so the notion of one absolute best omnidirectional microphone for music recording is fundamentally absurd--even more than is generally the case with microphone preferences. This isn't a matter of pluralism or tolerance or liberal philosophy or respect for others or "different strokes for different folks"; it's physics.
--best regards
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As always, Dsatz, tons of great info. I've learned more about how/why my omni's perform from you than from any other single source! If people are claiming their omni's are "the best", then it's likely a bit of hyperbole combined with "home team pride." The thread is titled "favorite," not "best," though, and hopefully people are populating suggestions with that in mind. :)
For me, since I'm really slutty about omni sound (to a fault, really, as over-reliance/blind hope has bit me in the ass a few times) I love this thread. Nice to see what people use in different situations, and why they like a particular sound.
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If money did not matter - what pair of omni mics would you buy for outdoor and on-stage recording?
Sennheiser MKH 20 - Neutral, accurate and the only safe bet in damp conditions as it's an RF condenser.
Though I'm looking forward to hearing the new MKH 8020 when they come out as you can remote the heads.