Topic: Want to get into multi-track/computer recording, need recommendations.

[palmettobum]

So now that I'm playing in a band again, I am dying to get into computer based recording, multi tracking, and editing.  I just have no idea where to start.  I have about 3k to work with, and need reccomendations for everything. 

Right now I have a ua5, pair of peluso sd's, c4's, and two mackie mixers. 

What am I looking for in a laptop?  soundcards? Any specific recommendations?

What software would be the best for an entry level guy like myself? (I am proficient with sound forge).

What kind of interface do I need for live/studio multi?

Where do I start learning?

Can I even get what I need for 3k?

Sorry for such a shameless plea for help, but I know this is the right place to ask.

-pb

[boojum]

Lynx is the hot sound card, but they cost.

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

Here ya go...  The second two would be a sweet rig.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,106043.0.html

[palmettobum]

Not exactly the 'entry level' gear I was looking for.  I wouldn't know what the hell to do with those...

[Brian Skalinder]

I'm probably as much of a newb as you are when it comes to this kind of thing, but it strikes me others might need more information before they can provide recommendations. The budget's a good start.  Questions, at a minimum, I suspect:

How many channels will you need to record at a time?
What instruments and interfaces do those instruments have?  For example, will you need to record a MIDI keyboard?

You also might try posting on Gearslutz.com, as there are a lot more people doing home studio recording over there.

[palmettobum]

Ok, good thoughts.  lets see 4 drum mics, 3 vocals, 2 guitars, keyboard, bass.  I could get away with 12 channels no problem.  I also want to be able to do some home studio stuff, in addition to live recording applications, with playback and overdub options.  Basic recording, editing, and mastering is all I'm looking to do on the laptop, as well as surf the web.  I just want to learn to record and edit channels individually.  I also want to record in 24/96. 

I am already set on vocal/amplifier mics.  Electric guitar/acoustic guitar/bass/trumpet/keys/drums/vocals is our band.

[mblindsey]

On a low budget...for a home studio...

The is not the best, but I have one and it meets my needs:

Presonus Firestudio
http://www.guitarcenter.com/PreSonus-FireStudio-FireWire-Recording-Interface-104011341-i1167246.gc

Of course, you can always add additional pre's through ADAT.  Adding one of these would get you a total of 16 pre's:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/PreSonus-DigiMax-FS-8-Channel-Microphone-Preamp-103846135-i1165478.gc

It has S/PDIF in, so I add my V3 to add two more tracks for a total of ten. 

For budget DAW software, I highly recommend Reaper (http://www.reaper.fm/)

Of course, if you want to follow the majority of the industry...start researching protools rigs...

EDIT:  This site is newbie friendly for home recording questions:  http://www.recordingproject.com/bbs/index.php

--Michael

[jacobmyers]

 I personally don't understand the deification of ProTools. I mean; apart from a mindless conformity thing. There are less expensive software/hardware solutions that do exactly the same thing and sound more or less the same. It really is mindless conformity! Now...

 You can daisy chain PreSonus FirePods (~$400 each) to get 16 channels of 24/96 into a FireWire port. Now spend the rest of your money on SONAR and a laptop. You'll want processing speed (2 GHz or higher) and RAM (2 GB minimum). You really can't have too much RAM, so get as much as you can shoehorn into the laptop.

 You'll also want silence (or as close to it as you can get). What's going to make noise on a laptop is the cooling fan for the high-performance video card that the OEM thought would be a good idea. Well, it wasn't. That video card has a cooling fan. As a rule, cooling fans are loud and loud is bad. So, following this logic, video cards use a cooling fan are bad. Unless you're playing video games. And you're not. You're recording audio and have absolutely no need for 3D accelerated graphics.

 At a live gig, or if you can get some real distance (or sound deadening materials) between the computer and the microphone, the noise of the "average" laptop doesn't matter quite as much (as they're generally under 30 dB). But if you're recording in the same 12' x 15' drywall (or plaster) box with the computer, the noise level of the computer is definitely something to consider.

 Anyway... There you go. 16 tracks of 24/96 that fits into a rack the size of a small suitcase. And you're probably under budget. Send my consulting check to the usual address. If you have the technical knowhow to install a soundcard and use a (hardware) mixer, you can figure out how to use this rig. And don't forget to grab a $150 rackmount power conditioner (to fit into your suitcase rack) while you're at it. It'll be the best $150 you ever spend.

[mblindsey]

I personally don't understand the deification of ProTools. I mean; apart from a mindless conformity thing. There are less expensive software/hardware solutions that do exactly the same thing and sound more or less the same. It really is mindless conformity! Now...

what he said...

--Michael

[jacobmyers]

I personally don't understand the deification of ProTools. I mean; apart from a mindless conformity thing. There are less expensive software/hardware solutions that do exactly the same thing and sound more or less the same. It really is mindless conformity! Now...

what he said...

--Michael

 Thanks.

 But I really was oversimplifying. It did make sense "in the beginning" to buy a ProTools system. For one, it was more or less the only DAW out there at the time (and came to be the "chosen king" of DAW hardware/software). I speak from experience when I say that it's a pain in the ass to export ProTools audio as WAV for use with other software (like if you pay for studio time and want to mix at home). And there's no way to use ProTools session data anywhere else (at least not that I'm aware of). They like to justify their own existence like that. And, in addition to the ridiculous proprietary nature of the software, you must use Digidesign hardware (which is generally ten times the price of a competing equivalent). It's stupid for a DIY house to spend for ProTools.

 In the DIY idiom, the entire project is generally done by one person on one computer. There's no reason to pay extortionate sums for compatibility with the gear at other recording houses. Unless you have that kind of disposable income. And, if you do, spend your money on less expensive (but equally capable) gear and pay me as a consultant. LMAO. Really, tho.

[joemango]

Here's my recommendations for a home studio:

-2 M-audio Delta1010LT cards - PCI, 24bit/96KHz 8 in, 8 out each.  They actually are 10 in, 10 out if you count the SPDIF connections but you have to chain the SPDIF's between the two cards for multi-card sync, so if you use more than one, they are 8in/8out each.  These cards run about $200 each and will allow you to run ProTools M-Powered if you like, but you don't have to.  They each have 2 balanced and 6 unbalanced analog inputs (no phantom on any of them), so you'll need to use some sort of preamp stage for each channel.  I use an.....

-Allen/Heath MixWizard16:2 which has direct outs on each of 16 channels and the preamps are very clean.  You can also use the AUX sends for monitor headphone mixes.  New, $1000 but you can usually find a slightly used one on EBay for less.  You could also go for the expensive 1 or 2 channel tube mic preamps that are out there but you'll pay more for any of them than this board will cost you.

-A PC with a RAID drive array (2 drives minimum) and at least 2 GB of RAM, make sure the RAID is run from the motherboard chipset, NOT an add-on card.  This is most important when tracking multiple channels.  If your hard drives can't write the data fast enough, your recording will not happen.  Period.  Also, try to avoid stuff like fancy video cards and any extra peripherals in the computer that you don't absolutely need.  Every device in there can potentially add RF noise to your recordings.  Also make sure your cooling solution is as noiseless (acoustically) as possible.  The bigger the fans, the quieter they are.  Liquid cooling is even better but can cost a lot.

-Mixing software.  I personally use SONAR producer and Protools M.  I prefer SONAR.  It's easy to get going quickly and doesn't have all the setup headaches that ProTools has.  It also doesn't have the 32-track limit that ProTools M has.

-a small set of monitor speakers for your desk.  Try to pick the ones that DON'T have too much bass response.  You can probably go safely with a set of self-amplified monitors for space saving.  Digital inputs are also a must.  You don't want to introduce any noise from the PC or other sources.

And one last tip:  Listen to your mixes on as many different playback systems as you can.  Even a crappy CD clock radio can reveal a tragic flaw in your mix, so don't ever feel that it's not worth a listen.  A good mix will sound great no matter where you play it back.

[allan]

I use a couple of firepods and cubase, it works well and is easy to use

[live2496]

Most of the firewire devices I have looked at don't have enough analog ins. You can daisy chain them together, but each interface you get is going to add a lot of extra cost.

Unless you are dead set on recording to the computer, an HD24 would probably be a good fit for you and a good value also. It has 24 inputs that can operate standalone without requiring a computer screen while you are recording the tracks. You have no dependencies upon firewire or a computer for the audio capture. You already have some good pre's (I suspect) in your Mackies. All you need is lots of line level inputs from the direct outs of your mixer channels.

They have a Fireport you can get for that that will allow you to transfer your tracks to a computer for mixing. You just attach it to the back of the disc caddy and run a software app.

For mixdown I would recommend Samplitude. You can do your mixes totally in that, plus burn one off CD's and mastering with it. Once you setup a project in it, the mixes can be totally automated regarding volume level and so forth.
You might be able to get by with the SE version if you want to use something else for burning CD's.

The great thing about recording to the HD24 is that the disc pack can be your backup of your session. When you copy files to your computer you have a working copy there, plus your original data on an HD24 disc pack. So if the laptop drive fails can always go back to your original files. (I would still backup your work in progress to an external drive quite frequently.)

You should have enough left over for a good laptop.

[joemango]

If he's not going portable, he can save a lot more money by going with a desktop PC versus a laptop that will have enough power to handle multitrack recording and mixing.  The hard drive alone in the laptop will be a major bottleneck.  Unless the laptop has a 7200RPM drive and wicked fast throughput, he'll top out at 8-10 tracks of 24-bit before the machine starts choking on the data.

I like the HD24 but it doesn't do 96, only has 12 analog inputs and I HATE lightpipes.  They seriously limit your input options unless you have a great ADAT a/d.

You can put together a super-fast desktop with 32 tracks of in-out 24/96 and a RAID array for much less than a decent laptop.  As long as you buy the right motherboard and don't buy an expensive video card, it's affordable.

I have built a machine that bridges the gap.  It's a "lunchbox" PC (portable but requires AC power) with the innards of a desktop.  It's a little bulky but allows me to reconfigure it any time I like and I don't have to resort to using firewire.  It's literally a recording studio-in-a-box.  32 tracks in/out, RAID, Dual-core CPU, 3 GB RAM with about 400 GB of high speed storage and DVD burning.  The case was the most expensive part, cost me $500 off ebay, originally about $1200.  I've recorded Particle, Scarecrow Collection, The Alternate Routes, some entire festivals and more using this setup and I swear by it.  My next move is to get some sort of rack mounted flight case for it so I can just show up, pop off the cover, plug in and go.

[TNJazz]

I like the HD24 but it doesn't do 96, only has 12 analog inputs and I HATE lightpipes.  They seriously limit your input options unless you have a great ADAT a/d.

The standard HD24 does 12 channels of 24/96 via the ADAT inputs.  If you need analog inputs at 96k, you need to get the XR version.

[joemango]

I like the HD24 but it doesn't do 96, only has 12 analog inputs and I HATE lightpipes.  They seriously limit your input options unless you have a great ADAT a/d.

The standard HD24 does 12 channels of 24/96 via the ADAT inputs.  If you need analog inputs at 96k, you need to get the XR version.

I'm an idiot.  someone kick me. or give me a -T.  I thought I knew what I was talking about but i didn't bother to look before I spoke.  So it does have the 24 inputs,  I was thinking about another box.  But I still hate lightpipes.  Probably because I don't have any equipment that uses them.