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Offline Tim

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2009, 10:27:33 AM »
anyone have any thoughts on placement? I have 3 separate panels that I'd like to place on the wall directly behind the couch. Should I space them relatively close together, say 1", which would give me coverage along the seated portion of the listening couch or should I space them out a bit farther? the couch is on the long (20') wall, basically centered.
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Offline Jimna

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2009, 12:34:47 PM »
how far are you on the couch from the speakers?

ive got a real need to tune the new room.  its a must.
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Offline Tim

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2009, 12:37:26 PM »
the room is 14' wide, I'm about 9.5' from the speakers with the wall right behind my head
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Offline Jimna

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2009, 12:49:27 PM »
i need a cheaper solution.  ive got to much wall to cover.  it would be cheaper to carpet the walls than buy panels or raw rock wool to cover them.  im looking at 12' on the wall behind the spekers and 20' of the right side wall.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 12:51:13 PM by Jimna »
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Offline Tim

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2009, 03:18:57 PM »
you don't need to cover the whole wall, especially on the side. you need to cover the 1st reflection points. you can find those by sitting in the listening position and have someone move a mirror along the wall, when you can see the speaker drivers thats a reflection point and you need to cover it.

I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Jimna

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2009, 07:07:02 PM »
my reflection point is long because ive got a listening couch with my computer desk right behind it.  ill work with my recordings at the desk and do general listening at the couch, basically an extended sweet spot hence the long wall.   

......and the wall behind the speakers is painted concrete.   ::)  this room has more bounce than corey's checks.
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Offline sparkey

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2009, 07:21:07 PM »
you don't need to cover the whole wall,

Nor do you necessarily want to.  I've read that a mix of hard and soft is the way to go, so that you don't necessarily have a too live or completely dead room.

If memory serves, you can make your own wall treatment by framing fiberglass insulation behind speaker fabric.  You would alternate those panels between the finished (hard) materials.  Does that make sense?  You build a frame of 2x4's, fill it in with something that will absorb sound, then cover it with acoustically transparent fabric.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2009, 07:24:45 PM »
Sparkey beat me to it..

Focus on the primary reflection points like Tim mentions- walls and floor (rug w/under-padding at the reflection point) and possibly ceiling, depending on how far you care to go with it.  From what I understand you don't want to cover too much wall with thin-ish absorbers, or the top end gets overly absorbed and the room sounds overly dead, like a badly treated garage band rehearsal space with thin foam everywhere.  I hate those spaces.  I like a more lively, though controlled room.  I've played with putting couch cushions up on the back wall at the reflection points in my room and I don't like it, kills the 'air' and the sense of depth in my room.  You might try that just to get a feel for where you're going with it first.  You might find just hanging a bunch of stuff on the wall or sticking a book case or something there works better by diffusing the reflections off the wall and breaking up slap echo between facing walls. Diffusion kills slap echos and specular reflections without reducing the reverb time of the high end.  There are also combination diffusive/absorbing materials and ready made products.

Its the bass region where you really can't get too much absorption (bass trapping) in a small room.  Both because it takes more to do the job and because bass end absorption is big and expensive.  Too much thin absorption on the walls can actually work against you by damping the high frequency reverb without effecting the low frequency, exacerbating typical 'small room' bass problems.  Solid concrete walls don't absorb much bass.  Windows and doors will act as bass traps somewhat, passing the low frequencies and reflecting more mids and highs.

Once I get around to it, I'm thinking of building some nice looking wooden diffusers for my back walls (diagonal room setup) and scheming ways to build some 'dead air behind rock-wool' low frequency absorption into a couple room corners where they'll do the most good.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Offline Jimna

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2009, 02:49:49 AM »
good advice ill try some various changes and listen.  i have a felt covered cork board i was already trying this with, but ill get more intent in the coming days. 
Co-Founder of F.M.Recording 
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Information is not knowledge
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2009, 10:48:19 PM »
You all might enjoy a great write up on the full process of designing and building a full-on mastering suite in Amsterdam with excellent photos of the whole thing over at Gearslutz.  Notice the skyline-type diffusers at the ceiling reflection points and across the rear wall behind the client couch.  There is also loads of absorption in the sidewalls and ceiling and a massive bass trap built across the whole back of the room hidden behind the diffusers, but then the entire room is purpose built and floating.  Worth a look to see what goes into a full-on, purpose-built mastering suite (also interesting and informative in its professional music focus, in contrast to all the home theater pr0n on the web)
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Jimna

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2009, 04:01:34 PM »
wow, great read! thanks.
Co-Founder of F.M.Recording 
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http://jmimna.com/

Information is not knowledge
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Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
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-FZ

Offline Tim

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2009, 09:37:48 PM »
I stumbled on this site today and thought it would interest you Jim
http://www.audiophysic.de/aufstellung/index_e.html
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2009, 01:16:59 AM »
Nice illustrations, I'm a sucker for animated flashing arrows.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Tim

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2009, 11:21:09 PM »
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline live2496

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Re: building room treatments?
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2009, 09:56:44 AM »
Thanks for those links! A good DIY project.
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