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Author Topic: In ear binaural mics  (Read 5916 times)

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Offline matt_s

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In ear binaural mics
« on: April 20, 2011, 01:15:42 AM »
Are in ear binaurals worth it for ambient recordings? I'm looking for an addition to my PCM -m10 to record mostly Foley / atmosphere and ambient sounds for an indie film. Any suggestions?

Offline acidjack

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2011, 03:05:31 PM »
Haven't used them, but some samples are available of these http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/MS-TFB-2 that sound pretty good that you may want to listen to.  This is the "master series" upgrade on the old version.  I wasn't a big fan of the old version in terms of the rock recordings I heard made with them, but these new versions seem to be pretty solid.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
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My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline anr

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2011, 08:26:24 AM »
Never used them as I don't like anything in any of my orifices,  but I have a friend in Germany who has a pair if MM in-ears.  He has produced some of the most stunning recordings I've heard; of acoustic gigs only.  Acidjack's point about rock gigs may be worth bearing in mind.


Offline schulein

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 01:56:42 AM »
Hello from new member Bob Schulein,

I have been actively experimenting with binaural recordings for the past 15 years, and within the past 4 years focused on making music recordings. 

Based on my experiments I have come to appreciate and understand the synergy between binaural recordings and video related to such audio.  In a majority of my recordings I am wearing the microphones, as I find it easier to coordinate camera and head movements using this technique.

My current focus is on determining the types of production values that produce the most entertaining and realistic results.   I have named the process of capturing such audio and HD video ImmersAV Technology.

I would appreciate comments from Tapersection members regarding a variety of such recordings that I have posted on YouTube.  To get a good overview please see: Introduction to ImmersAV Technology with Bob Schulein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi1dKjwFdhU

There are several other recordings posted under the search term Immersav within YouTube

Thanks,

Bob Schulein

Offline owainturner

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 09:23:59 AM »
I really like binaural recordings for concert taping but I find that although it is awesome for playback via headphones, it sounds 'incorrect' via speakers... Is there anything I can do to the recording to balance this out so that I when I playback via my home system it sounds more natural?

Offline illconditioned

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2011, 09:51:33 AM »
Hello from new member Bob Schulein,

I have been actively experimenting with binaural recordings for the past 15 years, and within the past 4 years focused on making music recordings. 

Based on my experiments I have come to appreciate and understand the synergy between binaural recordings and video related to such audio.  In a majority of my recordings I am wearing the microphones, as I find it easier to coordinate camera and head movements using this technique.

My current focus is on determining the types of production values that produce the most entertaining and realistic results.   I have named the process of capturing such audio and HD video ImmersAV Technology.

I would appreciate comments from Tapersection members regarding a variety of such recordings that I have posted on YouTube.  To get a good overview please see: Introduction to ImmersAV Technology with Bob Schulein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi1dKjwFdhU

There are several other recordings posted under the search term Immersav within YouTube

Thanks,

Bob Schulein
I went to your video, but gave up after one minute or so, then bounced off to a "related video".  I don't want to hear you talking, I want to see/hear the recordings you've made.  Also, here we are more interested in what gear you're using, not in buzzwords or marketing.  Sorry, but that is my opinion...
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline rastasean

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 11:40:39 AM »
I think binaural recordings work for a lot of things but I don't see how it could always be the solution to something like recording a video. I certainly think binaural recordings are nice to put me back in the time the recording was made but its only really effective (imo) if I'm wearing headphones, not listening to on speakers.
I would like to know how many man hours are spent perfecting the sound on any given Hollywood movie and I don't think their solution would be binaural very often of the time. Obviously Hollywood has unlimited money, access to better technology and people than the average person but if binaural recordings made sense for movies, I think it would have been used.

It looks like you spent a lot of time making the video and thinking about the idea in your head but I didn't watch to much of it, I listened to some of it and left the room for other parts. I would agree with Richard that we would be more drawn to more specific examples. There are different Colorado bands playing music, yes, but I took that to mean they were wearing the mics. Is that true? Have you experimented with recordings from the audience?

This is a video clip of audio recording for the movie Australia:
http://vimeo.com/groups/naturerecordists/videos/19021760
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Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 12:19:30 PM »
I really like binaural recordings for concert taping but I find that although it is awesome for playback via headphones, it sounds 'incorrect' via speakers... Is there anything I can do to the recording to balance this out so that I when I playback via my home system it sounds more natural?

If you look at Len's page, he advocates the use of mics in a position forward of the ears, and a little bit away from the head, i.e. attached to glasses near the temples.  I believe the idea is to find a happy compromise between binaural recordings and open mic recordings.   I tested this briefly once... I put my mics on my glasses, tried them back by my ears, and also forward, and I think when they are forward it does tend to sound more normal with speakers.  I might hazard a guess that this would be relevant with other brands of mics as well.  Notice that the DSM setup has capsules pointing forward instead of outward.  Omni caps do have some degree of directionality.
http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm
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Offline paulgato

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2011, 11:54:14 PM »
Hello from new member Bob Schulein,

I have been actively experimenting with binaural recordings for the past 15 years, and within the past 4 years focused on making music recordings. 

Based on my experiments I have come to appreciate and understand the synergy between binaural recordings and video related to such audio.  In a majority of my recordings I am wearing the microphones, as I find it easier to coordinate camera and head movements using this technique.

My current focus is on determining the types of production values that produce the most entertaining and realistic results.   I have named the process of capturing such audio and HD video ImmersAV Technology.

I would appreciate comments from Tapersection members regarding a variety of such recordings that I have posted on YouTube.  To get a good overview please see: Introduction to ImmersAV Technology with Bob Schulein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi1dKjwFdhU

There are several other recordings posted under the search term Immersav within YouTube

Thanks,

Bob Schulein

Yes, I 2nd (or 3rd?) the other posters' comments.  I watched as much of the video as I could stand but got annoyed by meaningless background music.  I think it's a bad idea to use background music on a video where we are supposed to be using our ears critically to examine certain recordings.  I wanted to know how you were recording things and didn't get that information.  The video is quite slick but not really informative.  It turned me right off and made me feel I was having my time wasted.  I only watched as much as I did because you were asking for feedback.  So that's my feedback.

Offline paulgato

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2011, 01:20:31 AM »
Are in ear binaurals worth it for ambient recordings? I'm looking for an addition to my PCM -m10 to record mostly Foley / atmosphere and ambient sounds for an indie film. Any suggestions?

I also have recently bought a PCM-M10 and I'm looking for binaural mics.  I've heard a few binaural(ish) recordings I really liked (at www.quietamerican.org / www.oontz.ru (check out the creakign tree!) / www.whitenoisemp3s.com and others.)  I find it a beautiful experience to 'hear a place' like that.  I got the PCM-M10 because it was reported to have good, quiet preamps, and excellent battery life (important if away from power points, ...and to get away from distant vehicle noise and so on one is generally far away from power points!).  Also it is small and discreet, and doesn't have obvious microphones sticking out.  So far I'm very pleased with it.

I am very much a novice but here is my recent experience...

I got a pair of Roland CS10-EM in-ear binaurals last week and I can say they are OK, but not so good for quiet nature ambiences because their self-noise is noticeable at a low signal level.  I made direct comparisons with the PCM-M10's (very quiet) in-built mics and the noise floor of the Roalnds was much higher.  (Not extreme; I think the Sony mics are just particularly quiet.)  It's not an unpleasant kind of hiss but I prefer 'darker' recordings.  For music and urban ambience I think the Rolands would be excellent.  (see this video of  guy drumming in his room:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKtUlUux9o )  They were quite cheap at £85 and they will have a use as they also double as monitor earphones so I'm not so disappointed.  I was very pleasantly surprised at how well they picked up my own voice.  As long as I make sure to keep my breathing quiet and don't swallow, etc. the voice sounds very natural.  (One thing I've found is that it is best not to make binaural 'in-ear' recordings right after eating!)  They also appear to be well made and are discreet as they look like standard ear phones.

So I'm still looking and I would appreciate any reports of first hand experience anyone has.  There are quite a few of these mics on the market (although not many in the UK) but the only real way to evaluate is to try them.  This poses a problem when it comes to expensive in-ear mics as one can often not return them 'for hygiene reasons'.

I'm quite impressed with the quality of the internal mics/preamps of the PCM-M10 so one possibility I'm considering is to make some in-ear binaurals using the same capsules used in the recorder.  I understand that Sony used Primo BT EM172's and these are available online, both in the UK at FEL and across the pond at frogloggers (sorry, no url's to hand but you'll find them).  From what I've heard on various forums they do work well and DIYers have had good success.  And at $10 or so each I can happily experiment.  I may fail to make good in-ear binaruals from them but I can recycle the capsules into other projects.  (I also wanted to experiment with underwater recording, and at $10 I can live with the risk of experimentally sinking one (suitably protected) into deep seawater.  Yes, I could buy a hydrophone for $200 but I'm only experimenting here, and there is a risk of snagging the thing on rocks or in weeds.)

As for film work, as I understand it one normally wants very much more directional mics to pick up what the camera is picking up (cameras are usually directional) but I can imagine using binaurals (or near-binaurals) for certain things 'post filming'.  In my experimenting with the Rolands I found the stereo (binaural) images created by recording such things as washing my hands under a tap quite impressive.  Whether that immediacy will come across to an audience listening over speakers in an environment the film maker cannot control is another matter...

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: In ear binaural mics
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2011, 01:23:29 AM »
Hello from new member Bob Schulein,

I have been actively experimenting with binaural recordings for the past 15 years, and within the past 4 years focused on making music recordings. 

Based on my experiments I have come to appreciate and understand the synergy between binaural recordings and video related to such audio.  In a majority of my recordings I am wearing the microphones, as I find it easier to coordinate camera and head movements using this technique.

My current focus is on determining the types of production values that produce the most entertaining and realistic results.   I have named the process of capturing such audio and HD video ImmersAV Technology.

I would appreciate comments from Tapersection members regarding a variety of such recordings that I have posted on YouTube.  To get a good overview please see: Introduction to ImmersAV Technology with Bob Schulein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi1dKjwFdhU

There are several other recordings posted under the search term Immersav within YouTube

Thanks,

Bob Schulein
This video was like watching paint dry.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

 

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