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Author Topic: My little venture into tuning my new room  (Read 15889 times)

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Offline Jimna

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My little venture into tuning my new room
« on: November 12, 2009, 12:24:11 AM »
i got this stereo when i was living at a different place so i had a feel for its post break-in sound.  last august we bought a house finally, and the basement minus a guest room and storage was mine make my man cave.  it was already finished and painted in yellow which i didnt like in the beginning but has grown on my allot, mostly because it brightens the place up nicely given its subterranean lack of light...and it gives that feel of Steelers colors which are ingrained in my soul, but i digress.  But unfortunately as soon as i turned the stereo on in the new room i was disappointed.  first off the room is considerably larger, its 12'8"W X 25'L X 7'4"H while the original room i got to know the system in was 12'x12' but had a drop ceiling and some favorable qualities for a small room, plus my listening seat was in the perfect place.   the new room has 2 walls that are painted concrete(foundation) with the rest finished sheet rock.  the echo was ridiculous while the bass was boomy and muddy as hell, i had the dreaded one note bass effect.  it was almost an unusable room it sounded so bad, the highs caused listener fatigue so dramatic my listening was cut way back.... i was not a happy boy.  it was like i took a step backwards sonically and i had no choice but to take action, so i did.

it has been quite the project, much bigger and more work than i originally expected.   It has been 100% DIY and low budget enough that i thought i would share with others in case anyone else is interested in doing this for themselves.  all told i guess ill have about $400 in the whole thing....minus buying a house that i can do this too.  it could have been done cheaper but i made the mistake of buying my first batch of panels online and paid way to much.  i found a local supplier for everything after that which saved me a ton of $$, plus i rocked the jo-anne fabric sales catalog and never got less than 40% off all my fabric.  to buy all the bass traps and HF traps as finished products from a vendor to do all i have done would cost a fortune.  Long live DIY! 

TNJazz turned me onto the Owens Corning 703 panels originally (thank you sir!).  but after research i decided used a combination of the 703 (3lb p/sq' fiberglass for mid-bass absorption) and the 705 (6lb p/sq' fiberglass for deeper bass absorption) in both reflective and absorbent facing, making a variety of low FQ bass traps and absorbent broadband traps.   my goal was to attempt to get as close to 100% corner coverage as possible.  (Low FQ and undesirable sound in general live in the corners, that is why band shells and good theaters have rounded corners everywhere with a giant sloping front wall)  all the traps were also made in a variety of 2" and 4" thicknesses in both density panels to get a better over all frequency control from 35-500mhz.  everything over 500mhz is then handled by the high FQ absorbers at the first reflection points plus the evenly placed unfaced traps through out the room too.  my goal unlike high school is flat. ;)

here are some pics from the start of the project:
2 OC 703 panels 2' x 4' 2" thick


the corner of the 2 concrete painted walls


first reflection point on left


first panel i finished


front of the room with the first few panels in their possible new homes, proped up of course


this HVAC that was finished around was a huge challenge.  symmetry is key to a good room so it really presented a problem.

 
as you can see i had quite the puzzle in front of me








« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 12:31:13 AM by Jimna »
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Offline dennisrtyler

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2009, 12:35:09 AM »
 8)
4. im so abrasive i make sandpaper nervous.

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Offline Jimna

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2009, 12:46:04 AM »
here is how i made one of my low FQ bass traps, but all traps and panels were made in the same basic way.  the only difference was the thickness or size i cut the panel to, and whether or not i used the membrane for facing to reflect high FQ sound waves.  the membrane serves 2 purposes, on the higher density panels it helps causes them to reach a lower FQ response while reflecting all high FQ waves making them a true bass trap and it keeps the rooms lively feel allowing me to maximize the bass trapping while not over deadening the room.  all the traps were covered in a waffle weaved muslin fabric i got at jo-anne fabric.  its not the cheapest muslin available but i had to keep in mind that i could be looking at this stuff for a long time and so i spent the extra cheese on aesthetics.  all that really matters when choosing the fabric is that it is acoustically transparent. 

panels, fabric, and work space + rear wall before any treatment




i used multiple strands of phone wire because i have an unlimited supply of it for free and i really tried to keep this as low budget as i could, but any strong wire(or doubled up like i did here) will work.  I threaded it through the middle of the 2 glued together 2" panels to suspend them.  amount of wire varied by weight of the trap or panel, on these i used 4 because the high density panels are heavy enough plus the muslin isnt the lightest fabric either.






this is the membrane that reflects high frequency sound waves while allowing the lows to pass through and be absorbed.  i used 3mm gardening plastic + the heavy plastic the fiberglass came packaged in.  the point of reflecting the HF waves is to keep the room sounding live and while still sopping up and absorbing all the deep or muddy lows, which additionally the membrane helps to absorb to a lower FQ then without the membrane(down to 35mhz!).  this is mostly effective in corners where the air pocket behind the trap is maximized, therefore not nearly as effective on a flat mounted panel with minimal or no air pocket. 

the muslin underneath it is glue on using a can of spray adhesive.  any brand works as i tried them all as they came up in sales.  theu muslin went on much like wrapping a gift.

and this is a finshed low FQ reflective basstrap, corner mounted for maximum effect




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Offline Jimna

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2009, 01:27:16 AM »
I did the whole thing on my weekends by necessity, but found it to be a good measure of my progress sonically.  each weekend would render another amount of change that i got the rest of the week to evaluate.  my biggest fear was to kill the room, kill it dead!

the rest are my progress in steps

this was my first try









this was a huge improvement over the original sound of the place but after a taste of what tuning could do i wanted to go farther.  i quickly decided that the small thin traps in the corners were not going to cut it and that flush mount treatments to the front wall were better served else where since boxed speaker primarily send waves away from that wall except the bass which is ported out the back, so i revised my plan and found better suppliers.  the rest is the result...

again in stages of finished legs
front





Rear






left side with the evil duct work treated



^^as you can see this still hasnt been completed, its still a project in motion..

and the opposite wall



another thing to work around, its the only window so i had to adapt

more work to do...


my desk and listening seat ive managed to get almost at 38% each from their closest wall be it front or back for best case positioning.  my seat on the couch is dead nuts on, but the desk has that rolling seat so im not perfect...


this wall has first reflection points for both my listing seat and my desk covered while the other wall has just the couch covered since the open door way doesnt reflect. ;)





so thats where i am to date.  still have some custom panels to make to finish this mess of corners



....and hang some framed stuff to keep the wife happy.  she thinks im off my rocker btw, but cant argue that it sound fantastic down here now.  its extremely flat.  the bass is so smooth and tight, and i can bring more lows in without it becoming muddy.  my highs are very crisp and clean without being fatiguing or overwhelming.  im happy boy, hubba hubba hubba!

the view from my office right now

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Offline anodyne33

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2009, 12:27:34 PM »
Hi, my name's Jim and I'm a geek.  ;)
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Offline Jimna

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2009, 12:38:03 PM »
a geek with a fiberglass rash. 
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Offline Javier Cinakowski

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2009, 12:42:22 PM »
holy shit Jim, that is remarkable.  Seriously, hell of a job! 
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Offline Tim

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2009, 01:39:26 PM »
a geek with a fiberglass rash. 

:lol: seriously, well done
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2009, 02:01:00 PM »
You must have an awesome wife, I don't forsee mine letting me come anywhere close to that. I wonder if you'd have better success if you just did the entire wall so it didn't appear spotty (cosmetically)?

a geek with a fiberglass rash.

That sucks.  :-X
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Offline Jimna

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2009, 02:16:53 PM »
my wife is cool on many levels, this being one, and the fact she has run my 4 channel rig being another.


I wonder if you'd have better success if you just did the entire wall so it didn't appear spotty (cosmetically)?
no, you need the properties of the fiberglass panels exposed to achieve the desired results, but to much would result in a dead room, its a fine line.  and i have learned its as much an art as a science too(trust your ears).  i have seen people treat walls and then cover the entire wall or ceiling in fabric to make it look congruent, but the look of it doesnt bother me, its a mood setter ;).  to actually build the room to sound correctly would cost more than i can even think about.  this is the best solution given my situation.  anyway, even studios and music halls use these external treatments. 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 02:18:34 PM by Jimna »
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Offline Jimna

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2009, 11:43:03 PM »
finished this mess up today

before>>>>>>>>>>>




after>>>>>>>>>>>









im really done with anything fiberglass now, im out!
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 12:37:59 PM »
Hi, my name's Jim and I'm a geek.  ;)
Hello, my name is Jim and I've got OCD.

Welcome, fellow basement dweller!

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 01:30:17 PM »
the only thing left to do is to install 36sq/ft of diffuser/deflection tiles i got super cheap from a music store that was going out of business.  this is a daunting task because i plan to put them on the ceiling were i cant place them and then listen to the results to decide their effect and placement(this has been my final test with everything so far, install and critique the result).  im not expecting them to make as big a difference as a real diffuser, but hopefully the will give some dispersion of HFQ waves and help with flutter echo.  these are the tiles im speaking of:



any ideas on how i test the placement of these before i break out the liquid nail?
Co-Founder of F.M.Recording 
SD: Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > Grace Lunatec V3 > Busman Hybrid R4
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Offline flipp

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2009, 02:03:54 PM »
Since your ceiling is only 7'4", get a couple of tall friends to come over and hold them up in various positions while you listen from your usual spot.

Alternatively, get a couple of extension poles like painters use and hold the panels up with them. Personally I think you should invite a couple of friends over.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 02:07:04 PM by flipp »

Offline Jimna

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2009, 02:23:59 PM »
its 36 tiles of 1'x1'.  it would take either a serious party to get that many folks over to hold tiles up, or i would have to go on a clothesline pole stealing spree to do it, and it is winter so not to many clothes lines are in use.... 
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SD: Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > Grace Lunatec V3 > Busman Hybrid R4
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http://jmimna.com/

Information is not knowledge
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Offline Tim

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 02:37:04 PM »
use the mirror trick to find the reflection points on the wall

sit in your listening position and look up at the ceiling. have a couple of guys hold a mirror up against the ceiling closer to the speakers than your chair. have them move the mirror towards the chair until you can see the speakers in the mirror. That's your first reflection point.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Jimna

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 03:03:52 PM »
im not sure diffusion is best placed in the first reflection point.  ive seen it done, but largely read it not being the best results on average, and the science behind diffusion preaches against it completely.  not that this is a legitimate diffusor.  most diffusion is placed DFC over or slightly in front of the sweet spot that ive seen or read about.  im real unsure on this, i dunno what to do.  im hoping for the effect of a higher ceiling if this is done right....well thats what a $1000 diffusor will do anyway.
Co-Founder of F.M.Recording 
SD: Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > Grace Lunatec V3 > Busman Hybrid R4
LD: ADK A-51TL MP > Busman Hybrid R4
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http://jmimna.com/

Information is not knowledge
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Offline Tim

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2009, 03:05:26 PM »
good to know, I've spent zero time reading up on diffusion.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 03:10:39 PM »
ive learned a ton of new info on all this in the last few months.  i never had the freedom to really worry about room acoustics before all this since this is my first house, so this has all been quite the lesson for me.  the interwebs have taught me much.
Co-Founder of F.M.Recording 
SD: Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > Grace Lunatec V3 > Busman Hybrid R4
LD: ADK A-51TL MP > Busman Hybrid R4
+ 48 Channel Multi-track rig

Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 2x Extender Mark III, Canon 15mm f2.8, Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon 100mm Macro f2.8, Canon 16-35mm L f2.8, Canon 24-70mm L f/2.8, Canon 70-200mm L f2.8 IS, Canon ST-E2, Canon 580ex II (x2), Canon 430ex II, PocketWizard PLUS II(x4), Radiopopper PX System

http://jmimna.com/

Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is THE BEST
-FZ

Offline Tim

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2009, 04:34:20 PM »
ive learned a ton of new info on all this in the last few months.  i never had the freedom to really worry about room acoustics before all this since this is my first house, so this has all been quite the lesson for me.  the interwebs have taught me much.

same here. she's let me have free reign in the basement. I have panels on the wall behind the listening position and some quick & dirty bass traps (read, bags of insulation inside laundry bags) in the corners. I'd like to build some tube traps eventually. It really makes a difference, I had just never had a chance to do it before.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2009, 05:49:47 PM »
tim, from what ive read tube traps have to be 20" wide or bigger to have a good effect.  surface area is the name of the game when absorbing low FQ sound waves.  a flat panel has more effect without the massive size to get the same deep low absorption.  i looked into the tubes and 15" was the biggest i could find, they only come in 3' tubes, and they cost $80 a piece + a stocking fee because no one stcks them.   i abandon them simply based on bottom line price to do the whole room.  i also started to walk around measuring the 20"+ round space loss in the room and i didnt like it, i dont have that much room to spare.  one big plus too the tube traps was the fact that they also serve as a deflector type diffusion if you can get them in the right places in the room. 
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Offline Tim

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2009, 06:36:32 PM »
It depends on what frequencies you need to absorb. The lower the frequency the larger the tube needs to be. I'll see if I can dig up some of the charts and data. I think 20 would be on the high end. You can cover down to 35hz with a 16" circumference trap according to ASC, http://www.asc-hifi.com/articles/iar89.htm

There are multiple schools of thought on low frequencies. One says surface area combined with density is the way to go and the other (like tube traps) focus less on surface area and more on the tube itself acting as a trap. Some people say that you cannot call a panel a bass trap.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2009, 06:52:27 PM »
i have also read into the many schools of thought but what sold me was testing using a mic and software.   before and after of a standard size room proved to me that flat panels work. 

for the tubes i didnt see such solid evidence either way, but again the price of materials swayed me too.  there is a market for the panels and they arent cheap so i wouldnt image snake oil could support all that.

if you do fine better prices on them let me know, i would love to put 3 of them under my corner traps. 

and FYI, great prices and they were great to deal with too.  they can get any amopunt of the 703, but you have to by the 705 in lots of 10 because they dont stock it and thats the way OC sells it to them.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2009, 05:37:32 PM »
One option is to get some thin backer board and adhere the diffuser tiles to that.  Then you can screw the entire sheet to the ceiling.  If you want to move it just back out the screws.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2009, 07:29:34 PM »
One option is to get some thin backer board and adhere the diffuser tiles to that.  Then you can screw the entire sheet to the ceiling.  If you want to move it just back out the screws.
thats brilliant!  this will excellerate that getting done.  i was baffled, thank you!
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2009, 02:36:37 AM »
pic update w/ a closer to finished room:













the head


stealy, he hangs with me down here more than anyone.  must be a true blue music lover.






i am really liking these speakers.  they get my thumbs up.








they love the blues...
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 02:38:44 AM by Jimna »
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Offline Javier Cinakowski

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2009, 01:42:33 PM »
that orange paint looks wonderful with the spot lighting. 

Very professional looking.  You did a better job than the professionals that built Pringles vocal room....
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2009, 12:13:58 PM »
For my listening room I choose to go a bit further on the technical aspect of reflection and stereo imaging.

I put my speakers on plastic milk crates and pointed them away from the wall. :P

jimna yinz are a dork n @ :-*

n i always thought yinz said missy was yinz "man cave"
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2009, 12:18:46 PM »
hahaha!   will, if that man cave could fit a stereo in it i would be calling her the gear slut with a men cave, as im not the only one in there.


and mike i swear that the paint is yellow, but everyone sees orange.  the camera seems to favor the orange hughs.....but thanks!
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2009, 02:14:07 PM »

and mike i swear that the paint is yellow, but everyone sees orange.  the camera seems to favor the orange hughs.....but thanks!

Looks very yellow on a viewsonic G225f CRT with and without a 3M privacy screen.
some of them look orange on my laptop LCD
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2009, 10:57:50 PM »
Um, wow. Jealous. Nice, very, very nice.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2009, 09:22:49 AM »
Nicely done...

My only criticism is the two couches in front of the speakers...

The couches are taking up so much airspace - they have to be imparting a "tune" of their own.

I'd seek to clear the path in front of the speakers.

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2009, 12:40:02 PM »
your reading my mind.  both the couch and chair (+ end table) are out of there and are now behind the desk with the table that was behind the desk out all together, and the desk and loveseat are 1 ft forward too..  ive also got the speakers on the floor and off the old speaker cabs since all that lift (24") isnt needed, but a solution to raise them slightly (9" - 1' after testing a buttload of positions) is needed i think.  still having trouble finding a solution to plinths that is cost effective.   i also have serious limits on where the electronics can sit due to cable length and im needing a real rack or something solid and permanent to sit them on.  many things to figure out yet, but what a fun journey it has been so far.  i think this is more rewarding than taping simply because i can enjoy this everyday!

*and in my defense the original design wasnt my first choice.  my wife wanted the room to stay a social area where people could hang out.  she has been very cool so i have to give her respect on the few request she has had on the matter.  i do think this is a win-win situation since all the "social" furniture stays and the only loss is the big table which was very helpful making my panels but was not so used afterward.   

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2010, 10:23:37 PM »
Update:

now as you can see i moved all furniture but my primary listening seat out of the front of the room, made a set of plinths for my speakers which are finished, and created the wife friendly "social area" behind my desk with the couch and chair that used to be up front by the speakers.  now my speakers are 4' from the front of the box to the wall behind and 2.3' from the side walls.  i also removed 6 HF panels which has brought better balance to the room over all, none were bass traps though.  I still need to build a rack to sit the TV and gear on but think ill wait until im more sure of what my needs are.  over all im very happy with the improvements, the sound is noticeably better in both image and sound stage, a performance bump indeed just by opening the buisness end of the room for sound waves....











the speakers seem to really benefit having the plinths in the low end.  i have them spiked on the stone so they are as solid as a rock, thats for sure.  the centers are concrete, with a rubber dampener between the concrete and the stone toppers.  the wood is just cosmetic of course.











and this fossil was free with my purchase of the cut stone
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2010, 01:39:22 AM »
looks great Jim, oh how I wish I could get my listening chair out in the room like that. Nice that you have that back area to sit in for folks not interested in being in the sweet spot.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2010, 04:06:55 AM »
it is convenient, but i keep asking what kind of person doesnt want to be in the sweet spot?  and why am i hanging out with them? :P
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2010, 02:10:35 PM »
:lol:
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2010, 02:26:26 PM »
it is convenient, but i keep asking what kind of person doesnt want to be in the sweet spot?  and why am i hanging out with them? :P

Just ask them to bring over their favorite recording, and play crank it for them.....you won't be able to get rid of 'em..... :)


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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2010, 06:17:36 PM »
freak
thanks for doing all this after I visit.
 ;D
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2010, 07:11:08 PM »
dude, you visited me 10 days after i moved in!  im good but not that good.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2010, 03:07:05 PM »
have you attempted to put a bass trap or another form of absorber on your head while jamming out in the sweet spot? that may help deflect sound towards the far quadrant of your ears pronouncing the high frequency SPLs just ever so perfectly.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2010, 04:00:46 PM »
no i have not.  ive been rather pleased with sound lately and that leads to lazy......


........and i forgot to post this here but i did get the Emotive XPA-2 (and an Oppo 980HD universal disc player which i have no pics of right now so ill leave it out of the conversation) which has been a huge improvement over my 24yr old adcom.  the biggest immediate improvement was the dynamics / sound stage and the low end.  as for dynamics and SS, it throws the sound from in front of you to all around you, it is quite cool and very pleasing to listen to....but the low end seems much improved in clarity and depth, which has made the sub blend better than before.  along with much more over-all detail and clarity, it is a very forward amp compared to both the adcom and my denon 3808 also, and with that forward presentation i find it more engaging and very fun to listen to.   ive now had many extended listening sessions which were enjoyable not fatiguing.  over all its not giant killer, but i would have to spend at least 2k more to do better, so im very happy for now.  its the perfect unit to use as a building block while i upgrade all the other components around it, and its totally able to push big loads like a set of full ESLs ;).   oh and its really fucking loud.   like retarded loud, which is not really an improvement since i never listen at that level. 

here are some pics and stuff:




















blacked out or STFU. ;)

Specs:



• Number of Channels: 2

• Topology: Fully Discrete, Dual Differential, High Current, Short Signal Path Class A/B

• Power output (all channels driven):
500 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
300 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD)

• Power Band Response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than .05db deviation at rated power

• Broadband Frequency Response: (-3db): 5Hz to 150kHz

• Amplifier Gain: 32db

• Signal to Noise Ratio:
1 watt:  >91db
Full Power:  >110db

• Input Impedance:
Unbalanced - 23.5kohms
Balanced - 33kohm

• Transformer Size: 1,200VA

• Secondary capacitance: 45,000uF

• Output Devices: 12 per channel

Size: 17” W x 7.75” H x 19” D
Weight: 75 lbs (89 lbs boxed)

FEATURES:

• Fully protected from all fault conditions

• Soft start circuitry

• External trigger turn on

• Soft touch power switch

• 4RU chassis w/ solid milled aluminum faceplate

• IEC power inlet, 120/230 VAC configurable

• Output design: Triple Darlington with On output stages

• Differential Drive: Dual Differential input

• Types of inputs: Balanced (XLR) and Un-balanced (RCA)

• Type of outputs: Audiophile quality 5 way binding post

• Display type: Digital status indicators
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2010, 05:44:31 PM »
that thing is sweet looking!
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2010, 10:24:31 PM »
wow the whole thing is awesome.  Great work!
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2010, 02:24:26 PM »
what kind of sub is that Jim?  How do you have it hooked up.  Is there a dedicated sub out from your reciever/amp?  Or do you feed the main speaker outs to the subs crossover?
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2010, 05:45:02 PM »
Thanks for the updated inspirational photos.

You got me thinking amps again.  I need to look into the Emotiva stuff for decent but not overy pricy juice to drive my B&W's.  I really dig the sound and the incredibly transparent tone control on my inexpensive panasonic SA-XR-55 class-D reciever, but there just isn't enough juice in there.  Like you mention, it's the dynamic transients and bass that I'd like to improve, not the SPL.

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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2010, 05:48:42 PM »
its a PS1200 Paradigm, its fed out of the sub outs on the Outlaw 970.  the 970 has a high quality DAC and bass management system (for the sub) built in that i prefer over the sound of my denon.  Although I will replace the 970 before long with a stereo pre, but its is the best sounding/cost effective solution i could find in a pre and DAC all in one box that had a remote.  i had to have the remote, i wasnt getting up to adjust volume all the time, and some of the extra stuff has been useful in utilizing my TV as a second monitor since my PC is the nucleus of system.  i now have a second mouse at the couch to change albums and surf while i sit in the sweet spot and rage. 

Gutbucket, I would recommend the XPA-2.  I got mine used so it was even cheaper yet, but even new they are a hard bargain to beat.  I just today had the warranty transferred over to me, its covered till 7/14, cant beat.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2010, 06:30:19 PM »
Thanks Jim,  my issue is that I've gone down this crazy, winding surround recording path so I need multi-channel gear.  Gets pricey quick and one reason why I've stuck with the little 100WPC Panny which takes care of all the routing and amplification pretty well.  Don't they make a 3-channel version of that amp which I could use for my identical 3 front speakers?
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2010, 06:52:15 PM »
thanks.  I go DAC->Power Amp, so there isn't anything to play with or any bass crossover besides the built in sub crossover, which I am skeptical about.  I have been thinnk of getting a single rack space crossover so I can more professionally control the sub.   I really like the direct signal path of dac, direct to the amp, but I would like to be able to bypass the sub crossover and  controll the volume.  Other than foobar, I have no easy way to change volume.  If you do decide to get rid of the 970, let me know, I might be able to make good use of it.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2010, 07:07:04 PM »
Thanks Jim,  my issue is that I've gone down this crazy, winding surround recording path so I need multi-channel gear.  Gets pricey quick and one reason why I've stuck with the little 100WPC Panny which takes care of all the routing and amplification pretty well.  Don't they make a 3-channel version of that amp which I could use for my identical 3 front speakers?
they do, the XPA-3, but its not the same amp im told.  basically the same amp with a slightly smaller transformer and only 1/3 more capacitance for another channel.  certainly a huge jump up from a 100wpc class D, but possibly not the animal mine is.  (they do have a 30day return policy)   the specs say it all:

Quote
XPA‐3
Number of Channels: 3
Topology: Fully Discrete, Dual Differential, High Current, Short Signal Path Class A/B
Power output (all channels driven):
300 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
200 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD)
Power Band Response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than .05db deviation at rated power
Broadband Frequency Response: (‐3db): 5Hz to 150kHz
Amplifier Gain: 32db
Signal to Noise Ratio 1 watt: >98db Full Power: >112db
Input Impedance:
Unbalanced – 47kohms
Balanced – 33kohms
Transformer Size: 850VA
Secondary capacitance: 60,000uF
Output Devices: 6 per channel

vs.

Quote
XPA‐2
Number of Channels: 2
Topology: Fully Discrete, Dual Differential, High Current, Short Signal Path Class A/B
Power output (all channels driven):
500 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
300 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD)
Power Band Response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than .05db deviation at rated power
Broadband Frequency Response: (‐3db): 5Hz to 150kHz
Amplifier Gain: 32db
Signal to Noise Ratio 1 watt: >91db Full Power: >110db
Input Impedance:
Unbalanced ‐ 23.5kohms
Balanced ‐ 33kohms
Transformer Size: 1,200VA
Secondary capacitance: 45,000uF
Output Devices: 12 per channel
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2010, 07:10:32 PM »
thanks.  I go DAC->Power Amp, so there isn't anything to play with or any bass crossover besides the built in sub crossover, which I am skeptical about.  I have been thinnk of getting a single rack space crossover so I can more professionally control the sub.   I really like the direct signal path of dac, direct to the amp, but I would like to be able to bypass the sub crossover and  controll the volume.  Other than foobar, I have no easy way to change volume.  If you do decide to get rid of the 970, let me know, I might be able to make good use of it.
ive kicked around a cross-over too, but i need a bunch of other shit first.  first thing is a new sub, this is getting rave reviews, and the price is right.  http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products.html
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2010, 07:54:00 PM »
Good info, thanks for the heads up.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2013, 03:18:09 PM »
Wow this place looks different than those old images.  Ill try to update this thread then.  Its a full on mixdown studio now.  The playback seen here is still what I use while not mixing or doing critical listening, but I now have a second system in place too that is strictly mixing....

be back soon.
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2013, 06:06:25 PM »
Wow this place looks different than those old images.  Ill try to update this thread then.

Good. We've come to expect pics with each of your posts. Don't let this happen again.  ;)

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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2013, 06:28:55 PM »
I look forward to updated photos.  Really excited to see someone I know make a living off of their passion.   I proud and envious of ya Jim!  Great job!
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2013, 06:30:16 PM »
Thanks Mike! 
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2013, 04:08:51 PM »
Nice work jim,

Did you create graphs and attack the room where your frequencies dipped or were accented?
Thanks

Patrick
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 04:11:20 PM by phil_er_up »
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Re: My little venture into tuning my new room
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2013, 06:12:31 PM »
Thanks!  Yes sort of, we used smart and followed the graphs till we optimized the FR of the room as close to flat as possible.  It still has a few spots that peak and valley, but they are small and not were anyone sits to listen.  In the end the only spot that matters is the mix position, but I wanted the whole room to sound good so I could have a client here and they hear what I do.  Plus i have a few engineers who use the studio and I wanted it sound good from me as I was not the one mixing, I am greedy like that.  JonO and I spent a bunch of time with smart, an Earthworks M30, and panels/traps moving all around the room.  I now have a few suspended from the ceiling too, which made a massive difference, more than I expected.  But the changes are more than that too, I cut a hole in my desk so i could drop the monitor down into it giving me an unobstructed listening seat and removing one more sound issue.  I also have absorption across the desk top now too to help end that reflection as well. 

I am pretty busy finishing editing a wedding now, once I am done Ill clean up and take photos.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 06:16:05 PM by Jimna »
Co-Founder of F.M.Recording 
SD: Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > Grace Lunatec V3 > Busman Hybrid R4
LD: ADK A-51TL MP > Busman Hybrid R4
+ 48 Channel Multi-track rig

Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 2x Extender Mark III, Canon 15mm f2.8, Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon 100mm Macro f2.8, Canon 16-35mm L f2.8, Canon 24-70mm L f/2.8, Canon 70-200mm L f2.8 IS, Canon ST-E2, Canon 580ex II (x2), Canon 430ex II, PocketWizard PLUS II(x4), Radiopopper PX System

http://jmimna.com/

Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is THE BEST
-FZ

 

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