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Author Topic: Stealth: Mono/Stereo? Does It matter?+Upgrade from Core Sound Cards...What Mics?  (Read 12648 times)

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Offline pafnuzzi

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Since I asked Chris not long ago I know he offers also a single point stereo mic version built of his CA14 omni mic capsules so this would be a very simple but high quality setup but stereo and not mono

Regards
Recorder: Sony PCM M10 red

Offline tardis71

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Re: Stealth: Mono/Stereo? Does It really matter? What Mics?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2009, 10:07:06 AM »
Thanks! Duly noted guys! I guess I was mostly wondering if there was a nice single point "stereo" mic out there... I've looked around and don't really see anything that fits the bill.
Probably just get the mint battery box (I like that you don't really have to hide it+it's really small and has the dip switches for bass roll off or not) Along with some sort of mini cardioids again...
Wondering what's the best I can get for under $300 that are the size of the cord sounds? Church audios look way cool..but too large for me. Might just get another set of CSC? I was hoping that there
would be something else better to have come out in the last 13 years? What are my options?
I do like the thought of those "flex gooseneck" mics....
Thanks in advance!
 ;D

Food for thought... I now have a more compact version of the ca-14. Its the same size as the windscreen with a clip attached. There actually is no difference between the mics your looking at and my ca-14 they are the same size when you are using windscreens.. And you SHOULD always use windscreens with these mics.

Chris

Chris, Just checking in to see if I could get some more info on these compact version of the CA-14?
I've been checking out some posts and I'm pretty sure I would like to get a CA ugly and maybe these compact CA-14...or maybe the audix caps with your cords...Not sure. Any more info on these? I know time is widing down on the sale for the ugly....thanks for your time!!
 

Offline fmaderjr

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I don't think there's a compact version of the CA-14.

If you get an UGLY you have to know where to set your levels before you enter the venue, since levels must be changed with a mini-screwdriver. I love the ST-9100 and hate the UGLY. Everybody seems to want everything just a little smaller and I don't really get it. The ST-9100 is plenty small enough for me and lets you change levels on the fly.
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Offline tardis71

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Thanks for any thoughts!! I appreciate them! ;)
I don't mind presetting the ugly. I figure you could probably just leave it 3/4 of the way up and then adjust from your recorder right?
As for the compact version of the CA-14s...just check my quote above..that Chris made himself, a few posts back. "I now have a more compact version of the ca-14. Its the same size as the windscreen with a clip attached"

I want a rig that I can put in my front pockets. M10 on one side and ugly and mics on the other.  I'm mostly thinking summer time when I'm wearing just shorts and a shirt to a show. I want everything as small as I can get. I'll probably pick up one of chris's small Battery Boxes too (for extra small stealth)...but I figure the ugly would be a upgrade from that. The extra size of the 9100 is just another thing to have to get into the venue...many heavy metal shows have wands/search and the ugly is just more stealth...simple as that.

I'm pretty much at the point that I think I'll go with the Audix 1200 cardioid caps with Chris's plug in power cables. Or the maybe the compact CA-14 if they are available. 

Audix 1200 series plug in power cable modification.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124072.0

I was also wondering if chirs might be able to do a mod to the ugly and put a little larger trim pots for level adjustments. Something like these?
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=779

or the small one of these?
http://www.potentiometers.com/SeriesP090.cfm?session_num=2009122401470094


Also why are there two separate levels for left and right on the ugly and just one on the 9100?
Could I get just one on the ugly?
Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts!


« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 11:33:39 AM by tardis71 »

Offline fmaderjr

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I don't understand the quote from Chris about compact CA-14's. They all have permanent windscreens and he's never mentioned a more compact one in his retail space ads.

Chris will build anything to order if it is possible for him to do so, so ask him about the single gain knob and the larger knobs. I'm guessing larger ones may not be possible w/o increasing the size of the unit-otherwise everybody would want larger knobs.

I guess the only potential problem with setting the UGLY at 3/4 and adjusting with the recorder is that if the show is very loud the UGLY itself could clip ruining the recording (and your meters wouldn't know it was happening). I would certainly set it below 3/4 for heavy metal, etc.

By the way, if you want your recorder in one shirt pocket, and the UGLY in the other pocket, I really see no advantage to the UGLY over the ST-9100. The ST-9100 easily fits in a shirt pocket with the gain knob easily accessible for making adjustments. That's how I would do it except my ST-9100 and MZ-RH1 easily fit in the same shirt pocket.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline tardis71

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thanks for your thoughts fmaderjr...any way you can post a photo of the 9100 along side your rh1?
My rh1 took a dive this summer and I've got a m10 now. I wish there were more photos comparing the size of things... I'm sure I would have to get used to what the ugly can do and where it should be set for different shows..but I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem with that. It would be nice if the ugly could be made with the smaller trim pots like I posted...that would be sweet..no?
As for the compact ca-14s...I'm just going on what chris posted....he said he could make a more compact version on the ca-14s... I don't have any other info than that. But I'm looking at the Audix 1200 caps and his power cables if I can't get the smaller ca-14...I don't need or use windscreen unless I'm outside..never needed them for indoor shows. Thanks again for your thoughts!

Offline Church-Audio

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Thanks for any thoughts!! I appreciate them! ;)
I don't mind presetting the ugly. I figure you could probably just leave it 3/4 of the way up and then adjust from your recorder right?
As for the compact version of the CA-14s...just check my quote above..that Chris made himself, a few posts back. "I now have a more compact version of the ca-14. Its the same size as the windscreen with a clip attached"

I want a rig that I can put in my front pockets. M10 on one side and ugly and mics on the other.  I'm mostly thinking summer time when I'm wearing just shorts and a shirt to a show. I want everything as small as I can get. I'll probably pick up one of chris's small Battery Boxes too (for extra small stealth)...but I figure the ugly would be a upgrade from that. The extra size of the 9100 is just another thing to have to get into the venue...many heavy metal shows have wands/search and the ugly is just more stealth...simple as that.

I'm pretty much at the point that I think I'll go with the Audix 1200 cardioid caps with Chris's plug in power cables. Or the maybe the compact CA-14 if they are available. 

Audix 1200 series plug in power cable modification.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124072.0

I was also wondering if chirs might be able to do a mod to the ugly and put a little larger trim pots for level adjustments. Something like these?
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=779

or the small one of these?
http://www.potentiometers.com/SeriesP090.cfm?session_num=2009122401470094


Also why are there two separate levels for left and right on the ugly and just one on the 9100?
Could I get just one on the ugly?
Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts!
I can build the preamp with a regular gain knob.. But then its not a small preamp anymore The trimers I am using are rated at 50,000 cycles they are the strongest ones I could find. I really dont think you should touch the gain in a live situation anyway adjust the levels on the recorder if you need to change levels run the preamp out full or 80-90% for loud shows. Thats why I made them trimmers in the first place you can easly match up your mics and set it and forget it.
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EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline fmaderjr

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I really dont think you should touch the gain in a live situation anyway adjust the levels on the recorder if you need to change levels run the preamp out full or 80-90% for loud shows. Thats why I made them trimmers in the first place you can easly match up your mics and set it and forget it.

Love your equipment Chris, but it would be great if you could post mini-instruction manuals. I read and save all your posts on your equipment I can find, but I didn't know you thought 80% or even 100% gain wouldn't be in danger of clipping at a very loud show. As a set it forget it device, the small gain pots certainly make sense. I guess I'll have to break out my UGLY that's been sitting around unused and give it a shot.

It would have been nice to know this when the UGLY first came out
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline Church-Audio

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I really dont think you should touch the gain in a live situation anyway adjust the levels on the recorder if you need to change levels run the preamp out full or 80-90% for loud shows. Thats why I made them trimmers in the first place you can easly match up your mics and set it and forget it.

Love your equipment Chris, but it would be great if you could post mini-instruction manuals. I read and save all your posts on your equipment I can find, but I didn't know you thought 80% or even 100% gain wouldn't be in danger of clipping at a very loud show. As a set it forget it device, the small gain pots certainly make sense. I guess I'll have to break out my UGLY that's been sitting around unused and give it a shot.

It would have been nice to know this when the UGLY first came out

Instructions would be good I guess.. :) I dont really want to get into stealth techniques but I can talk about my gear and recommend placements ect and settings.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline DSatz

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Please excuse my late arrival in the thread. If you can't tell the difference between a mono and a stereo recording of something, and the "something" took place in a space with a more or less normal amount of reverberation, then the stereo recording isn't optimal to my way of thinking.

I, too, have used one-point Sony stereo microphones in decades past (and also some Aiwas, which were less peaky in the treble), and even if that's not quite the ideal way to record stereo, it still can be better than mono. And the convenience factor sometimes means that a recording can be made under circumstances where no other form of recording is practical at all, so I don't knock that, either.

The thing is, many of those little stereo microphones were really designed for business applications, e.g. recording a meeting with ten or twenty people sitting around a table or a room, so they tend to have a very wide stereo pickup angle. And the way this was (and still is) often done is by arranging the two cardioid capsules with an angle of only 90ยบ or so between their main axes. Cardioid isn't really all that "sharp" of a pickup pattern, so when you use the mike in other, less immersive situations such as concert recording, you find that there's a tremendous overlap between what the two channels are each picking up. In fact their signals turn out to be so nearly alike that the resulting two-channel recording is pretty nearly mono in effect.

And that, in turn, may well explain why a reasonable person who listens to the recording over loudspeakers might not feel that stereo has much to offer over mono. But a more appropriate recording method should show the advantages rather vividly, I think.

--best regards
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 02:55:39 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline dgale

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Re: Stealth: Mono/Stereo? Does It really matter? What Mics?
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2009, 06:00:53 PM »

Whatever you decide, I would advise you against gonig with the CSC. I don't have any beef with Coresound or most of their products and was very happy with the CSBs and like my DPA 4061 HEBs, but I found the CSCs to be hands down the worst mics in terms of sound quality that I have owned or used (there are worse, to be sure, but they're the worst I've used).  The build quality is good, but to me, the performance is just not acceptable - way too thin on the bass. 

I agree 100% - the CSCs were the worst mics I've ever owned...I tried and tried to make them work and the results were always horrible.  Complete waste of $$ IMO - run from these mics.  I have had fairly good results from the CSBs and HEBs but the CSCs were something I wish never darkened my doorstep.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Please excuse my late arrival in the thread. If you can't tell the difference between a mono and a stereo recording of something, and the "something" took place in a space with a more or less normal amount of reverberation, then the stereo recording isn't optimal to my way of thinking..

I 2nd that thought. 

The quality of this type of recording is as good as the effort which you put into it, within the limits of your expertice and gear.  Since the choice of mic placement in the hall is my primary consideration, I often choose to record using these methods to make the very best recording I can, given the constraints.
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Offline guysonic

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Re: Stealth: Mono/Stereo? Does It really matter? What Mics?
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2010, 10:12:24 PM »
Also, if your Sonic Studios mics are in fairly good shape, guysonic can recondition them for you for a reasonable price. He could probably even shorten the cord, but you'd still be stuck with the big battery box. However, it's possible that your M10 would power Sonic Studios perfectly without a battery box. It's big brother, the D50, will do so (one of the very few recorders that can) but guysonic hasn't tested the M10 yet. If they both have the same plug in power voltage it would work fine without a box, assuming the mics terminate in a mini plug and not some proprietary connector designed to connect to the battery box.
Kind M10 loan from TS member allowed tech testing of this very well made deck.

Found M10 a very low noise deck actually does better than D50 in NOT having low level digital noise issues at all!

ALSO, M10 powers DSM mics perfectly so no need for external powering or external preamplifier

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