Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend  (Read 66955 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline yates7592

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 694
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #105 on: August 14, 2012, 04:31:07 AM »
Just reread the thread, and was also rereading the Bob Katz book (Mastering Audio), and wanted to mention Katz's starting points for numbers . . .

In the "Transparent Parallel Compression" section, he lists:

  • Threshold -50
  • Attack time "as fast as possible", one millisecond or less if available
  • Ratio 2:1 or 2.5:1 (he prefers 2.5)
  • Release time medium length: "experiments show that 250-350 milliseconds works best to avoid breathing or pumping"
  • Crest factor set to Peak
  • Output level or makeup gain adjusted to taste

Obviously using one's ear is key, but I thought others might be interested in fiddling with this as a beginning . . .

I would also add that he mentions to use lookahead.

This is pretty much the combination that I use to implement parallel compression. Use Softube's FET Compressor plug in, it makes this so easy every time.....

Offline page

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Gender: Male
  • #TeamRetired
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #106 on: August 14, 2012, 05:43:26 PM »
This is pretty much the combination that I use to implement parallel compression. Use Softube's FET Compressor plug in, it makes this so easy every time.....

Softube's unit is good, especially the lookahead function when you're doing 2bus-style compression. I don't always like the coloration though.

The other compressor I like is "The Glue" (which is a steal at $99). I think it's cleaner, but lacks the lookahead so I do a two-stage compression. One with super fast attack and release, the other (with a slightly deeper dig) for a slightly slower attack (but still around 1 or 3ms) and almost a half/three quarter second release. Then just wet them by various combinations to produce the sound you want. The first one shaves off errant spikes, the other smoothes it out a little and retains a touch of punch (courtesy of the slower attack).

I can't recall doing that on a bus mix which I didn't start with more than 3 tracks on...
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline Stagger

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 645
  • Gender: Male
  • Yep I'm selling my 722-Wife always wins in the end
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #107 on: April 06, 2013, 11:45:25 PM »
Been a while but thought y'all might want to see this... I haven't tried it yet (mainly because I'm using Ableton these days) but here is a free "All in one" NY compression plug in. Claims to perform parallel compression in one plug-in. I'll try to compare it to the real thing in the next few days if nobody beats me to it.

Easy-NY plugin VST
Selling: SD 722
Current Setup: AKG c34 > S42 > Kimber Hero > DR-680

Nikon D7000, SB-700, Nikkor 18-200 f3.5-5.6, Nikkor 50 f1.8D, Sigma 10-20 f3.5, and way too many do-dads to list...

Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre [Electro-Harmonix/12AX7 Gold Pin ]>Rogue 88 Amplifier [Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

Offline page

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Gender: Male
  • #TeamRetired
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #108 on: April 07, 2013, 11:27:37 AM »
My newest tendancy is to incorporate a parallel comp with muting/gating (done post-comp).

So lets say I have a loud show (recorded in a tincan, so lots of low level reverb) but super quiet between song banter. To bring that up without enhancing the reverb ill do the parallel compressor on a seperate track and then mute the track during songs to keep the reverb to a minimum. Delicate part in the middle of the song? Unmute it but drop the post-compressor volume by 6 db or so, then have that envelope close and the mute kick in when it grows louder. I can take a picture and sample later if someones interested.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline Matt Quinn

  • No Ceilings
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
  • Gender: Male
  • beep boop
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #109 on: April 09, 2013, 03:02:34 PM »

Been a while but thought y'all might want to see this... I haven't tried it yet (mainly because I'm using Ableton these days) but here is a free "All in one" NY compression plug in. Claims to perform parallel compression in one plug-in. I'll try to compare it to the real thing in the next few days if nobody beats me to it.

Easy-NY plugin VST


Nice, I don't see too many people using Live for taping purposes. How do you like it? It took me a bit to get used to it's workflow coming from CoolEdit back in the day, but I love love love it now. And not sure if you've had a chance to try Live 9, but the new EQ8/Compressor/Glue compressor devices are lovely. And both the regular Compressor & Glue feature Dry/Wet controls, so you can dial in parallel compression if you want.
In: AT853>PMD620
Out: PC>MOTU Ultralite AVB>M-Audio BX8a/Grace m900

DAW: Ableton Live 10

My LMA Recordings

Offline Duncan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 134
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #110 on: April 17, 2013, 06:48:43 AM »
Sorry if this is a dumb-arse question but can this be done using layers instead of channels?

Cheers
Duncan
Recording for 39 years and counting, down not up
Schoeps CCM5--SD722
DPA 4061--SD722
AKG CK 61-ULS--Naiant Actives--SD722
DPA 4061 - DPA d:VICE - iPhone 6s+
MixPre6 with some mics

Offline page

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Gender: Male
  • #TeamRetired
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #111 on: April 17, 2013, 11:21:07 AM »
Sorry if this is a dumb-arse question but can this be done using layers instead of channels?

I suspect that's a software specific question. I create "virtual channels" in Reaper and mix those together when I do it, but each software will handle it differently. It's the concept of what it's doing and how to tell that you've achieved a desirable result that stays the same.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15724
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #112 on: May 01, 2013, 12:19:22 PM »
I drive a 17 year old car, but I just returned a rental car after taking a trip from FL to NC and back and really enjoyed listening to some of the recordings I made through the modern car stereo system via its line-in jack.  Between the bass/mid/treble equalization controls of its stereo system and the graphic EQ on the R-44 I was using to play the files I dialed in the sound nicely.  Interestingly, the car stereo had a level compensation feature which turned the volume setting down by up to 7dB at low speeds and back up at high speeds to compensate for the rising engine and road noise floor.  It could be set for anywhere between -1 to -7dB of compensation in 1 dB steps or turned off entirely.  Nice feature.

However, what would be much better would be the addition of a parallel-compression function linked a cabin noise floor sensor.  It would be set to vary the parallel compression output to always keep the quiet sections slightly above the noise floor of the vehicle.  It would increase the compression output at high speeds or if driving with the windows down, etc. and lower it at low speeds or with the windows up, and reduce it to zero when parked with the engine off but the stereo on.  As described, it would work well in combination with the 0-7dB level compensation. 

At high speeds with the windows down (appropriate battle field for a loudness war) you'd get a highly compressed output with only a few dB of total dynamic range.  Parked in the driveway in your sonic cocoon you'd get the full dynamic range of the recording.  It would actively adjust between those extremes based on the current noise floor.  I bet some modern luxury car systems do something like this, and I know some do active noise cancellation at low frequencies to lower the road noise level, which is far more demanding than what I’m suggesting, but this was just a cheap Ford Focus.  Wouldn't cost much to implement in even budget car audio systems however, yet would be very valuable given the huge benefit it would provide, transparent to the end-user.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 12:24:42 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Stagger

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 645
  • Gender: Male
  • Yep I'm selling my 722-Wife always wins in the end
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #113 on: June 26, 2013, 03:08:45 PM »

Been a while but thought y'all might want to see this... I haven't tried it yet (mainly because I'm using Ableton these days) but here is a free "All in one" NY compression plug in. Claims to perform parallel compression in one plug-in. I'll try to compare it to the real thing in the next few days if nobody beats me to it.

Easy-NY plugin VST


Nice, I don't see too many people using Live for taping purposes. How do you like it? It took me a bit to get used to it's workflow coming from CoolEdit back in the day, but I love love love it now. And not sure if you've had a chance to try Live 9, but the new EQ8/Compressor/Glue compressor devices are lovely. And both the regular Compressor & Glue feature Dry/Wet controls, so you can dial in parallel compression if you want.

I never really used 8 so 9 is all I know. As with any DAW it has strengths and weaknesses. I did get an APC 40 which helps a ton when in comes to controlling Ableton. The thing is that Ableton is really about creating tracks and performing live sets. In terms of what I usually need to do with my live recordings, I actually find Presonus Studio One 2.5.1 to be a great tool as it has an entire section devoted to mastering with very clearly set up spectrum monitoring, track splitting, plugin slots for tracks, masters, and post mixdown plugin slots. Then again, Sonar is damn nice too if you are on a PC ;)

I have also had some time to play with the Easy NY plug in. I have to say, I set up some tracks in Ableton, Audition, and Studio One (just to make sure there was no DAW difference) with a traditional parallel comp (as described in the initial post) using Waves C4 and V-Comp and I had a very hard time telling the difference between those and the same tracks with just the Easy NY plugin. Don't get me wrong, if I was making studio multi-track recordings in proper isolation, I would certainly be able to tell the difference in the comps. With an aud recording, its tough to tell any difference. The Easy NY and Voxengo's Elephant EQ (which lets you pull the spectrum from one recording and apply it to another... basically, find a recording you did a good job on and make your new show sound more like that one) are my go-to these days.
Selling: SD 722
Current Setup: AKG c34 > S42 > Kimber Hero > DR-680

Nikon D7000, SB-700, Nikkor 18-200 f3.5-5.6, Nikkor 50 f1.8D, Sigma 10-20 f3.5, and way too many do-dads to list...

Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre [Electro-Harmonix/12AX7 Gold Pin ]>Rogue 88 Amplifier [Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15724
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #114 on: June 26, 2013, 06:05:09 PM »
I haven't had a chance to check out that Easy-NY plugin yet, thanks for the reminder.


Forgive me if I’ve already mentioned all this earlier in the thread..   I’ve found it useful to think of compression as addressing three separate issues of dynamics, and to think in terms of applying it in three separate stages with quite different settings used to address each.  It’s not always necessary to use all three, just what ever is called for.  Sometimes just one or two alone is enough.* 

Three different aspects of dynamics compression:
1) Top down- limiting wild, errant peaks (high threshold, high ratio, fast attack, moderately fast release).  At strong settings this acts as a peak limiter.
2) Full range- controlling the overall range of dynamics across the entire range, similar to making volume knob adjustments while listening back (low threshold, low ratio, moderately fast attack, medium to slow release)
3) Bottom up (parallel comp, ‘NY’ comp)- bringing up the quiet parts and bringing out details hidden in the dynamics (low threshold, high ratio, paralleled with the uncompressed but limited audio) Can be similar to full range, but works 'within' the loud parts too, unlike adjusting the  'volume' knob while listening.

Recently I’ve been using mild full range compression frequently for listening to my on stage recordings, with a very low threshold and a low ratio, partly because it is very quick and easy to set to get things listenable and enjoyable.  I sometimes use the internal playback compressor on the R-44 to do this when listening directly off the machine.

This thread focuses on bottom up primarily, and it's the parallel use of it which is unique in dynamics processing.  You can do both top down and full range with the envelope tool and a lot of time- Peak limiting by zooming in and making lots of very fast small tweaks to bring down each individual errant peak, and full range by zooming out and making big, broad level changes.  I find getting top down to sound right the most challenging, which is unfortunate as it is probably most common with standard default settings in most compressors.


*As an example, an AUD of a big PA may benefit from full range or parallel compression, but not need much if any top-down compression since the loudest peaks will have already been compressed and limited by the PA gear.  In contrast, an on-stage recording without a PA will often have a considerably larger overall dynamic range and is also likely to have wild, high-level peaks, especially if a drum kit is in close proximity to the mic position, in addition to quiet details obscured by dynamic level masking.

All of this is different than simply shifting the overall level of the recording upwards until the peaks are somewhat close to 0dBFS- either manually or via peak normalization, although the make-up gain control on a compressor can be used to perform that function.  An AUD of a PA recorded with a comfortable amount of recording headroom will usually stand to benefit from bringing up the overall level (manually, via peak normalization, or via make-up gain) simply so that the listener doesn’t need to crank the playback volume so much just to get a reasonable listening level, even if there aren’t wild peaks eating up the excess the recording headroom.  But that adjustment isn’t dynamics compression, it’s simply shifting everything in the recording up in level by the same amount.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Stagger

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 645
  • Gender: Male
  • Yep I'm selling my 722-Wife always wins in the end
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #115 on: June 27, 2013, 02:25:54 PM »
*As an example, an AUD of a big PA may benefit from full range or parallel compression, but not need much if any top-down compression since the loudest peaks will have already been compressed and limited by the PA gear.  In contrast, an on-stage recording without a PA will often have a considerably larger overall dynamic range and is also likely to have wild, high-level peaks, especially if a drum kit is in close proximity to the mic position, in addition to quiet details obscured by dynamic level masking.

Exactly right! I should mention that this is mainly what I record with my mobile rig. The last shows I recorded, WsP in Raleigh, had a dynamic range of about 14dB as recorded with no limiting or processing. Just the 24/48 files out of the 722. This is a pretty narrow range to begun with. My main goal with a recording like that is to give the impression of a more "present" or "crisp" recording without actually squashing the dynamics much more then they already are. This is what parallel compression does a good job on. If I was doing a club show, acoustic, or stage recording (or a multi-track for that matter), I would want a compression scheme that would have a much more drastic effect on the dynamics. This could be a classic buss compressor or something like a Waves C4 or C6 multiband (or fill in your preference here). As always, it's a matter of selecting the right tool for the job.
Selling: SD 722
Current Setup: AKG c34 > S42 > Kimber Hero > DR-680

Nikon D7000, SB-700, Nikkor 18-200 f3.5-5.6, Nikkor 50 f1.8D, Sigma 10-20 f3.5, and way too many do-dads to list...

Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre [Electro-Harmonix/12AX7 Gold Pin ]>Rogue 88 Amplifier [Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15724
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #116 on: June 27, 2013, 04:02:46 PM »
Yep, I right with you.

If I was doing a club show, acoustic, or stage recording (or a multi-track for that matter), I would want a compression scheme that would have a much more drastic effect on the dynamics. [snip] As always, it's a matter of selecting the right tool for the job.

With you there too, although 'drastic' sort of implies the inevitable creation of sonic problems while fixing other bigger issues to me, but I agree that more compression and a multi-faceted take on it applying it is useful in those situations.  I got bogged down in specifics, but what I really wanted to point out in that last post was this simple idea: In situations where more radical manipulation of level dynamics may be called for, I usually find it easier to get the results I want if I think of it (and usually physically do it too) as three seperate processes, instead of trying to address it all through just one stage of compression, regarless of how advanced that one tool may be.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Sloan Simpson

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
  • Gender: Male
    • Southern Shelter
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #117 on: June 28, 2013, 01:46:38 AM »
I'm messing around with Easy NY tonight, and I don't really get it. Can someone explain how to set it?

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15724
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #118 on: June 28, 2013, 09:03:51 AM »
My newest tendancy is to incorporate a parallel comp with muting/gating (done post-comp).

So lets say I have a loud show (recorded in a tincan, so lots of low level reverb) but super quiet between song banter. To bring that up without enhancing the reverb ill do the parallel compressor on a seperate track and then mute the track during songs to keep the reverb to a minimum. Delicate part in the middle of the song? Unmute it but drop the post-compressor volume by 6 db or so, then have that envelope close and the mute kick in when it grows louder. I can take a picture and sample later if someones interested.

Missed this a couple months back.  I'm interested.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline page

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Gender: Male
  • #TeamRetired
Re: Parallel compression, my new love & best friend
« Reply #119 on: June 28, 2013, 10:00:18 AM »
My newest tendancy is to incorporate a parallel comp with muting/gating (done post-comp).

So lets say I have a loud show (recorded in a tincan, so lots of low level reverb) but super quiet between song banter. To bring that up without enhancing the reverb ill do the parallel compressor on a seperate track and then mute the track during songs to keep the reverb to a minimum. Delicate part in the middle of the song? Unmute it but drop the post-compressor volume by 6 db or so, then have that envelope close and the mute kick in when it grows louder. I can take a picture and sample later if someones interested.

Missed this a couple months back.  I'm interested.

haha, I had to read that 2 or 3 times to figure out what show I was working on then. Yeah, I'll post pics tomorrow. Tonight I think I'm out with the gear.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.084 seconds with 40 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF