Topic: Demise of CD players in 2011???

[Will_S]

I never liked the iPod thing because they were only MP-3, which I refuse to convert to. Plus, when I have given music that I have recorded to friends for their iPods they are all 'untitled'. Track 1, 2,3, etc. Also, it seems like the iPods all have a two second pause between songs, something that would drive me insane.

You can also use iTunes to create Apple Lossless files, and you can designate tracks as part of a gapless album to avoid the two second pause.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I was just told, while shopping for a new CD player for my wife's '07 Toyota Corolla, that in early 2011 CDs will no longer be produced, and players will soon not be made anymore either. If CD players (both auto & home) will no longer be made in the coming years then how are we to use our ever expanding music collections? I was told that downloads to iPods will be the ONLY source of music in the coming years. Compressed MP-3 files will be the norm. That makes no sense to me at all! I asked what will be the new format, because I have switched formats twice already, (from cassette to DAT to CDR) and was told that there will be NO MORE FORMATS for home recordings. Only computer downloads. I was told that movies would be the same way in five years and that the new Blu Ray format will also be obsolete. I asked about portable hard drives and was told that they will not work with the new car audio systems. I guess I am looking at the end of my high end car system.

CDs will be produced for years to come.  If not for the US market, for foreign markets...  Just because we've gone to iPods doesn't mean that CD Tech won't be around elsewhere.  You'll be able to find CDs for a long while... 

However, I do see the "norm" becoming HHD based "media", rather than physical media.

I have always been a stereo freak and used my tape recorders (both cassette and DAT) as my primary source for collecting and trading music. I always figured that once I got my DATs archived to CDR there would be another format change and I'd have to start all over with yet another format, but I am shocked beyond belief at the idea that there will be no further formats for home recording. I collect audio-only CDRs of live music, and don't do the FLAC thing because they won't play on my high-end car system and that is the primary place that I listen to music.

All of here are stereo-freaks too.  Most of us however have gone to some kind of computer based playback.  You can find a ton of USB driven PC>Stereo devices, as well as soundcards with SPDIF and/or TOSLINK outputs...  A few of us use DVD Audio through a DVD Player...  I would still use CDRs, but my Stereo got hit by lightning several months ago...  Now its the dreaded iPod at work for most of my listening... 

As for CDR Audio vs. FLAC.  I'll have to be honest in my opinion - you were short-sighted in doing CDR Audio rather than FLAC.  You could always burn your own CDR Audios form FLAC, but you could always keep the FLACs on the shelf for later use - like now...  I started out CDR Audio, but when I realized I could lose CDRs and not have a way to get them replaced, it became a necessity to go SHN/FLAC...  I have about a 1000 Data CDRs with SHN/FLACs in my Archive...  I'll probably never touch them, but they are there...

That being said, it has become VERY easy to get SHN/FLACs through BitTorrent...  You could probably replace your entire collection in a couple of months...

I guess I just don't understand why people are so wrapped up in this MP-3 thing. I think they sound like crap, but it seems that a lot of people can't hear the difference. Have we gotten to the point where quantity rules supreme over sound QUALITY???

Quantity rules...  I have a 1tb HHD at work with enough MP3s on it to play non-stop for over 3 months, without repeating a single track. Considering its a loud work environment (computer lab) and I'm costatnly being interupted, Quality isn't as important as having access the "that" song "right now". 

It makes me want to buy three or four nice CD players and maybe a DVD player or two and stick them in the closet for the coming years. What are we going do, as live music collectors? Will my music collection that I have spent so many years working on be unusable?

I would invest your money in external hardrives and a way to go from your PC to your Stereo.  I've been looking at 24bit USB DACs lately, but I also have a Squeezebox that i've never used...  If I were you, I would look on CraigList and buy a stripped down Desktop PC, get an MAudio Audiophile 2496 and a video card that does HDMI.  Run the video to your HDTV, and the MAudio to your Stereo.  As you need, turn on the TV and switch to the PC HDMI input, then use your PC like your music player through the Stereo.  You could use a player like Foobar to access external HHDs and have multitudes of 24/96 FLACs available for use through your stereo...

Terry

[page]

Adding metadata (Song Titles, etc) is simple - and wouldn't be much different if you go EAC or DAT>PC...you still have to type the song titles at some point.

Either typed in a text file or as meta data in flac files. Either or.

I never liked the iPod thing because they were only MP-3, which I refuse to convert to. Plus, when I have given music that I have recorded to friends for their iPods they are all 'untitled'. Track 1, 2,3, etc. Also, it seems like the iPods all have a two second pause between songs, something that would drive me insane.

You can also use iTunes to create Apple Lossless files, and you can designate tracks as part of a gapless album to avoid the two second pause.

Many flac players, whether on the mac (Songbird for instance) or handheld (like a rockbox'ed unit) can do gapless flac playback if that is of interest to you.

Terry has some nice suggestions that I generally concur with.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

On a side note, I bought an Alpine stereo for my car a long time ago.  Later I bought a cable off of EBAY that gave me an AUX input via the CD Changer ipunt on the back of the Alpine.  I was able to run any 1/8" output into my car stereo with ease, including my Wife's iPod (for road trips) and my Tascam HD-P2 (listening to my recording driving home from the show).  I had a buddy at work use a 1/16>1/8 adapter to run audio out of his cell-phone to his car-stereo... 

There are a ton of people here that have worked thourhg this same issue...  Just ask around and do a bunch of reading, you'll eventually find a new method of playback that suits you and the new technology...

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/2713385

Terry

[OldNeumanntapr]

I have archived much of my DAT collection on an HHb CDR 800 PRO, and that machine is unable to encode CD text on the discs...

Sorry to say - If you want the best transfer - you'll need to go back to your DAT masters and re-transfer them to computer. Otherwise you are archiving a 1st gen digital copy. Im sure DAT>PC is always the preferred linage.

It's taken me years to archive my DAT collection to CDR and I still have a good 1/3 of it left to do. I bought the HHb CDR 800 new in '98 for $1,800, after waiting for it to come down in price. The first CDR recorder that I saw was made by Marantz and it had a list price of $5,000 when it first came out. Also, when I got my HHb I don't believe 80 minute discs were as of yet available, and 74 minutes just didn't cut it. I like the HHb 800 standalone because it is more like a tape recorder and is easier for me to use, hooked up to my DAT recorders. I know that computer-based work stations have more features but I think the learning curve would be higher for me. I prefer Macs over PCs because I think they are easier to use. I'm not thrilled to think of starting over with the archival process. I have mostly been doing this for myself anyway. Most of the people that I have traded with have never seemed all that keen on my recordings. Everyone wants soundboards.

The whole point of this is that I was hoping that the CDR discs would last better than the DATs, which are not the best archival storage media. Digital error problems + magnetic tape problems.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

It's taken me years to archive my DAT collection to CDR and I still have a good 1/3 of it left to do. I bought the HHb CDR 800 new in '98

At the time, you were doing the best you could do.  You have options here:  EAC the discs and let those be your new Masters, or re-transfer the DATs. 

I've been using my Tascam HD-P2 for transfers lately, since my 15mo son lets me get out like never...  Anyways, I've been doing Sony DAT > SPDIF cable > HD-P2 to do DAT transfers.  Then I take the Flash Card out of the P2 and copy to my PC.  After some work, I can burn to CD, or save to an external HHD as FLAC files for later burning/listening/archiving.  You might have luck doing your transfers this way, if you can find a nice cheap 16bit recorder with SPDIF input.  The MicroTracker might be a good candidate, but I dont think it's a "good" unit.  You might have to pay a little more...

Terry

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Found this looking at other threads here...

http://www.squidoo.com/portable-flac-player-comparisons

Terry

[runonce]

Good comments here...rant follows...

I was an early adopter of CD-R tech...dropped 3K on a Marantz in 93...that thing sucked big time...biggest audio pile of shit I ever owned...never give Marantz a dime again.

CDR had to be the most untested tech ever dropped in our laps..."red book compatible" - who fucking cares....! I just want the 15 dollar blanks to PLAY!!! Just get me that far - then we can worry about nuances...

Im surprised no one class-actioned their asses. That Marantz CD-R 6X0 stuff sucked...

Most of the stuff I mastered on that unit is long since rotted or destroyed...I remember Verbatim discs that only required the touch of a finger to shed the data layer. Rubbish.

The masters have outlived the backups!

By the time we got to 25 cent media - my faith was lost. Too little...too late!

The Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 was the breakthrough for tapers...Finally we could put DAT in our rear view...like digital cameras - we could take a lot more "pictures" without financial penalty..."blanks" What are those?!!!

[BusDriver]

www.vinylrecorder.com

maybe the answer to all your ills ......

[runonce]

www.vinylrecorder.com

maybe the answer to all your ills ......

HA!

[runonce]

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/20176

Intel has added a fresh line of solid-state drives to its growing portfolio of storage products. This isn't the long-awaited successor to the X25-M family, though. Instead, the new 310 Series brings the X25-M's controller architecture and 34-nano flash to the tiny mini-SATA form factor.

Otherwise known as mSATA, the diminutive SSD form factor pipes Serial ATA signaling over a mini PCI Express connector. Mini is the operative word all around. SSDs in the 310 Series measure just 51 x 30 x 5.8 mm, which is roughly 11% of the volume of 2.5" drives with a 9.5-mm thickness. Even standard 1.8" drives look portly in comparison, being more than four times larger than a 310 Series offering. With a weight of less than 10 grams per SSD, the 310 Series doesn't have much heft, either.

[blastroknow]

On craigslist you can still get cassette players and turntables so 10-20 years from now I'm sure there will be a fine market for vintage cd players to pull out the old media that didn't get transferred.  And then what about file formats on hard drives - was this FAT32?  NTFS?  EXT4? Gotta get the converter file or buy an old computer to play those old files.  It will be a never ending pain in the ass.

My first cd-rs are starting to fail, too but I keep in mind "I found this on the internet and I can get it back because it has to be somewhere on the internet".

And yes the internet will crash and fail and become victimized by greed and control in the future, too and all the people who backed up on cassette will congregate in Boulder and all the people who have vinyl will be in Vegas and there will be some sort of epic battle . . .

[OldNeumanntapr]

On craigslist you can still get cassette players and turntables so 10-20 years from now I'm sure there will be a fine market for vintage cd players to pull out the old media that didn't get transferred.  And then what about file formats on hard drives - was this FAT32?  NTFS?  EXT4? Gotta get the converter file or buy an old computer to play those old files.  It will be a never ending pain in the ass.

And yes the internet will crash and fail and become victimized by greed and control in the future, too and all the people who backed up on cassette will congregate in Boulder and all the people who have vinyl will be in Vegas and there will be some sort of epic battle . . .

Yes, I agree. I'm sure that CD players will be around for a while but it's disturbing to think about not having a standardized format to progress to. I remember wondering what formats of the future would be like 25 years ago. I always thought that I'd be continually changing to a better system. So far every one of my formats have had problems. Cassette was hissy, especially a couple of generations down the line, and susceptible to all the demons of magnetic tape: print through, dropouts, shedding, etc. DAT had error problems, too many tiny delicate parts, Plus all the problems of magnetic tape. CDR seemed to be the way to go at first but they get scratched, rot, skip for no reason, and were limited at least at first to only 74 minutes. 80 is not much better.

I just keep coming around to the fact that our niche is getting smaller, and the music  / electronic industry is geared for people who listen to commercial studio albums / tracks, and don't mind the poor sonic quality of MP-3. I was told once that 'Live concert albums do not sell well', but I listen primarily to live concerts and have never liked studio cuts. I remember when MD and DCC came out (remember them anyone) and I shunned them because of compression. Now compression and those DREADED gaps between tracks seem to be the norm.

Sigh.

BTW. 22 years tonight I saw Hot Tuna for the first time at the Fillmore. Awesome show!

[Massive Dynamic]

Sorry to say - If you want the best transfer - you'll need to go back to your DAT masters and re-transfer them to computer. Otherwise you are archiving a 1st gen digital copy. Im sure DAT>PC is always the preferred linage.

It's taken me years to archive my DAT collection to CDR and I still have a good 1/3 of it left to do. I bought the HHb CDR 800 new in '98

At the time, you were doing the best you could do.  You have options here:  EAC the discs and let those be your new Masters, or re-transfer the DATs. 

Is there any consensus on re-importing DAT > HDD versus EAC master discs? I have a lot of discs that were tranfers from DAT > HHB-830 which I understand was a fine unit. Maybe I should start a different thread, but it was brought up here.

[runonce]

On craigslist you can still get cassette players and turntables so 10-20 years from now I'm sure there will be a fine market for vintage cd players to pull out the old media that didn't get transferred.  And then what about file formats on hard drives - was this FAT32?  NTFS?  EXT4? Gotta get the converter file or buy an old computer to play those old files.  It will be a never ending pain in the ass.

And yes the internet will crash and fail and become victimized by greed and control in the future, too and all the people who backed up on cassette will congregate in Boulder and all the people who have vinyl will be in Vegas and there will be some sort of epic battle . . .

Yes, I agree. I'm sure that CD players will be around for a while but it's disturbing to think about not having a standardized format to progress to. I remember wondering what formats of the future would be like 25 years ago. I always thought that I'd be continually changing to a better system. So far every one of my formats have had problems. Cassette was hissy, especially a couple of generations down the line, and susceptible to all the demons of magnetic tape: print through, dropouts, shedding, etc. DAT had error problems, too many tiny delicate parts, Plus all the problems of magnetic tape. CDR seemed to be the way to go at first but they get scratched, rot, skip for no reason, and were limited at least at first to only 74 minutes. 80 is not much better.

I just keep coming around to the fact that our niche is getting smaller, and the music  / electronic industry is geared for people who listen to commercial studio albums / tracks, and don't mind the poor sonic quality of MP-3. I was told once that 'Live concert albums do not sell well', but I listen primarily to live concerts and have never liked studio cuts. I remember when MD and DCC came out (remember them anyone) and I shunned them because of compression. Now compression and those DREADED gaps between tracks seem to be the norm.

Sigh.

BTW. 22 years tonight I saw Hot Tuna for the first time at the Fillmore. Awesome show!

You're missing something here...

The new format for mastering is small recorders and flash drives (its just a DAT deck with no moving parts...or tape)

Archiving is FLAC and HD/SSD

If anything - recording tech is FAR MORE standardized that it was 10-15 years ago.

And all those formats from the past - DAT is surprisingly robust...and all my cassettes still play.

Its the more recent technologies that we have lusted for that have burned us (CDR/DVD) - and the lessons learned from those have pointed us to where we are now.

Things are VERY standardized...

Our niche...smaller - uh no...

Ever hear of the Live Music Archive, bt.etree.org, thetradersden.org, dimeadozen.net...taperssection.com??? The internet...?

Still a niche perhaps - but growing in all sorts of ways. The border between hobby and profession is much closer than in the older days...