Topic: new computer build

[JasonSobel]

It's definitely time to replace my old computer with a new one (currently running a Dell that I bought in Dec 2003).
I think I'd like to build one from scratch.  This is the first time I've ever built one on my own.
I don't really do any gaming, nor much video work, so I'm pretty sure that the GPU on the mobo will be just fine.
I don't need a new keyboard, mouse, nor speakers, so those are left off.  I may or may not get a new monitor, I think the one I have now is just fine.  For the time being, I've left the monitor off the list.

I'm posting here to get some input, thoughts, etc..  and to make sure that (1) I'm not forgetting about anything, (2) that the components that I have listed are all compatible with each other, (3) that I'm not skimping anywhere that I shouldn't (power supply?).

I will be installing Windows 7 64 bit home edition.

I'd like to keep the hardware around $500 or less.
Her's what I'm thinking right now

case:
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
$60

motherboard:
ASUS M4A88TD-V
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131646
$120

processor:
AMD Phenom II X4 955
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808
$120

power supply:
Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033
$45

RAM:
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231311
$65

hard drive:
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5002AALX 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136795
$60

DVD Burner:
HP 24X Multiformat DVD Writer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827140042
$25

total hardware cost - $495

any thoughts?

[mattmiller]

I can't really advise you on anything AMD, but what jumps out at me is:

1.  380W isn't a lot of power these days.  It may be sufficient (barely) if you aren't using the system for a lot of power-hungry devices, but it wouldn't cost you much more for a good one in the neighborhood of 500W.  You can almost always find one for $50 or so, even if it's after a mail-in rebate.
2.  500 GB isn't a lot of hard drive space, but I'm sure you realize that, so maybe it's enough for you.  Are you not using this system for any storage of WAV masters?
3.  8 GB of RAM might be overkill for you since you said you won't be using it for anything intensive enough to require anything more than the onboard video.  Don't get me wrong -- the more RAM the better, especially as cheap as it is these days.  But if you're looking to save money, it sounds like you might not use all of that RAM on this system.

EDIT TO ADD:  It looks like that case is well-liked, but notice that it is a bottom-mount PSU design.  Many people like this, and I'm sure it all works out the same in the end.  I just prefer the traditional top-mount design.  I have this case and love it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068

[rastasean]

1. power supply is a little weak but it could work.

2. I like the motherboard since it has 4 memory channels. I've been looking at a few and they only have two channels which could make it expensive to upgrade the RAM.

3. I prefer AMD over intel and with this kit it looks like the heat skin and fan are included.
check this cpu out: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103809&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-19-103-809-_-Product
its just one model under the one you picked and its $10 off with a coupon code.

4. That's a good amount of RAM. I don't think its overkill.

5. pretty sure you would need thermal paste unless its included with the mobo or the processor. I just picked this one because its the highest rating...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007&cm_re=thermal_paste-_-35-100-007-_-Product

6. If you have an existing dvd drive, perhaps you could use that.

7. Just a personal question but why windoz 7?

[flipp]

Always liked AMD processors. If I've built it myself I used them. Prebuilts have always had Intel processors. All have functioned well it is just for my needs AMD has had a better price/performance sweet spot so that's what I've used in my builds.

If you plan on using this for any audio work don't forget a card reader. In my experience they are much faster than USB transfers. < also good for anything originally written to a memory card - pics and video both transfer much faster than from the device they were recorded with >

Power supply should be bumped to minimum of 450 watts IMO.

Not familiar with the Antec cases but have built two using the case Matt linked. My only complaint about that case is the front bezel openings are very tight when inserting drives but unless you add drives you should only have to deal with it once. I do wish the HD cage sat sideways as it is easier to add/swap drives since a longitudinal cage often produces interference/clearance issues with add-in cards when adding/changing HDs. The latter applies to all cases, not just the CoolerMaster linked.

Also curious why only one HD. Are you planning on reusing some you already have or using externals?
< since the MB has an eSATA port you might consider a HD dock if using bare drives as swappable storage and don't want to open the case everytime you want to exchange drives >

[bhtoque]

Just a couple thoughts:

1. upgrade the power supply. 500w is prob the sweet spot without a graphics card to worry about. More is better especially if you plan to add drives down the road.

2. Budget in for fans for the front of the case(unless you'll only have the 1 drive in it) Also make sure all the case fans are set to exhaust so you're not sucking in dust.

3. You'll get a better bang/buck cutting the ram and adding a 2nd drive. Set one for the OS and the other for your audio editor's swapfile. This would up your cost $30 unless you have an sata drive to migrate from the old system. Not sure what you use but a lot of software won't make use of the extra ram.

4. I 2nd the card reader and thermal paste suggestions.

JAson

Edit to add an anti-static wrist strap is a must for a system build.

[rastasean]

I still think the RAM is fine since he will be running windoz and it loves to eat ram. Plus this will give him the ability to run multiple applications at the same time without any fear of running out.

[Red Boink]

Antec is a good choice for the case and PS.  I just put a box together with an antec 620 green PS.  Do not strainewegg Power supply, you want some headroom for expansion...  I don't think the 620 was much higher cost.  Check out the excellent user notes at newegg.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

As others said...upgrade that PS.

Don't know much about the AMD stuff anymore. I used to use AMD CPU's, but have moved on to Intel because they have a pretty good lead over AMD now.

If you're willing to bump up the price to a hair over $600...a SSD drive for your OS and programs will make that sucker scream. I run my OS and programs on my SSD and have moved all of my files to a conventional HD (I moved all of my User files to this drive). Upgrading to SSD is EASILY the best upgrade I've made on my computer. Programs start considerably faster. Windows loads from pushing the power button to the login screen in about 30 seconds.

This is plenty good:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227550

[JasonSobel]

thanks for all the comments, many have been very helpful.

I can't really advise you on anything AMD, but what jumps out at me is:

1.  380W isn't a lot of power these days.  It may be sufficient (barely) if you aren't using the system for a lot of power-hungry devices, but it wouldn't cost you much more for a good one in the neighborhood of 500W.  You can almost always find one for $50 or so, even if it's after a mail-in rebate.

It seems that most of you are suggesting a better power supply.  I'll definitely look into it.

2.  500 GB isn't a lot of hard drive space, but I'm sure you realize that, so maybe it's enough for you.  Are you not using this system for any storage of WAV masters?

I have a media server in the basement with close to 10 TB (all backed up, of course).  The new computer will not be used for any real storage of my recordings/audio collection.  Rather, I'll process them, or download or whatever, on this new computer, and then copy everything to the media server for storage.  On the computer I'm using right right now, I'm getting by with a 40gb internal drive + 320gb external.

I've thought about getting a 1 TB drive for the new computer, because I know that they are not much more money.  but, for the money, I'd rather get a drive that is a better drive (not the bottom of line or cheapest), rather than a larger drive, in hopes that it will last longer.

3.  8 GB of RAM might be overkill for you since you said you won't be using it for anything intensive enough to require anything more than the onboard video.  Don't get me wrong -- the more RAM the better, especially as cheap as it is these days.  But if you're looking to save money, it sounds like you might not use all of that RAM on this system.

I know that 8gb of RAM might be a little overkill.  but another goal of mine for this system, that I probably should have mentioned, is to have it go for 7-8 years before needing to be replaced.  In the 8 years that I've had my current computer, the only upgrade I've done is upgrading the RAM from 512 MB to 2.5 GB.  I figure, 8gb of RAM should go a long way into the future.  and with 4 slots for RAM in the motherboard, I can always put in more down the road if I ever need it.

EDIT TO ADD:  It looks like that case is well-liked, but notice that it is a bottom-mount PSU design.  Many people like this, and I'm sure it all works out the same in the end.  I just prefer the traditional top-mount design.  I have this case and love it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068

I'll look in to that one as well.

3. I prefer AMD over intel and with this kit it looks like the heat skin and fan are included.
check this cpu out: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103809&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-19-103-809-_-Product
its just one model under the one you picked and its $10 off with a coupon code.

My thoughts with AMD over intel is just based on cost to performance ratio.  based on my (fairly limited) experience with AMD, I think I'd prefer intel.  but I think the AMD will meet all my needs (and then some), and come in at a lower price point.

5. pretty sure you would need thermal paste unless its included with the mobo or the processor. I just picked this one because its the highest rating...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007&cm_re=thermal_paste-_-35-100-007-_-Product

You and JAson mentioned thermal paste.  Please excuse my ignorance, but what am I using the thermal paste for?  I assume for something during the actual assembly.  I have spent most of my time reading up about the actual components, and I haven't really spent any time reading about the actual assembly, figuring that I would read up on that after everything is ordered.

6. If you have an existing dvd drive, perhaps you could use that.

The only DVD burner that I have now is an HP external USB 2.0/firewire drive.  I've been rocking this drive since Fall 2004, and it's served me well.  I guess I could continue to use it, but I think I'd prefer to go with an internal drive.  The internal that I linked to is an HP, chosen because it has favorable reviews, and because the HP external drive has lasted so long under heavy use.

7. Just a personal question but why windoz 7?

I don't really want to get into Windows 7 vs linux vs whatever else.  but the new comptuer is getting Windows 7.  The old computer is getting a new life and will be running some form of Linux (rather than Win XP, which it currently has).

If you plan on using this for any audio work don't forget a card reader. In my experience they are much faster than USB transfers. < also good for anything originally written to a memory card - pics and video both transfer much faster than from the device they were recorded with >

I currently have a USB 2.0 card reader that seems to be just fine.  I'm sort of getting out of the taping game, maybe just semi-retired.  My mics are sold.  I'm keeping the PMD-661 for DAT transfers, and so that I'll have a deck and can borrow mics the next time Phish is in town   So the internal card reader is definitely lower on the priority list.  That said, it's not totally out of the question, as it might be more convenient.  Are you suggesting something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820223103
The details on that page say that it's a USB 2.0 interface, even though it's internal.  Based on that, I don't see how it would be faster than just continueing to use the external USB 2.0 card reader that I already have.  Or is there some other internal card reader that doesn't use a USB interface, and would be faster?

Also curious why only one HD. Are you planning on reusing some you already have or using externals?
< since the MB has an eSATA port you might consider a HD dock if using bare drives as swappable storage and don't want to open the case everytime you want to exchange drives >

you, JAson, and Fatah Ruark all mentioned either a second drive, either a regular hard drive, or a SSD for the operating system and programs.  I've thought about it, and I go back and forth.  I've got the 320gb (mentioned earlier in this post) that I'll continue to use in addition to the internal drive.  With three of you all suggesting it, maybe I'll take another look at having two drives.  but that will increase costs by $50-$100, if not more.

what about this one as a system drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136770

any thoughts?

2. Budget in for fans for the front of the case(unless you'll only have the 1 drive in it) Also make sure all the case fans are set to exhaust so you're not sucking in dust.

The case I linked to has the following:
"A rear-mounted 120mm TriCool fan as well as a top-mounted 140mm TriCool fan – both with 3-speed switch control – draw air through the case"
so it comes with those.
it also says:
"In addition, there's space for an additional pair of 120mm fans behind the front bezel to cool the HDD’s as well as the option to mount a third 120mm fan on the side of the case to cool the GPU"

Are you saying that I should get one (or two?) 120mm fans for the "front bezel" to coll the hard drives?  but not really needed if I go with just a single hard drive?  what about a single hard drive + a SSD?  the SSD doesn't generate heat like a regular hard drive, correct?

If I did decide to get additional fans, I assume something like this would be good:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185054
($25 each, or $50 for two) ($13 each, or $26 for two)
what do you think?

Edit to add an anti-static wrist strap is a must for a system build.

JAson - thanks for the tip.  I assume this is just so that I don't zap anything as I put it together, is that right?

for 5 bucks, it seems like this one is well reviewed:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261005

that will do the trick, right?

Antec is a good choice for the case and PS.  I just put a box together with an antec 620 green PS.  Do not strainewegg Power supply, you want some headroom for expansion...  I don't think the 620 was much higher cost.  Check out the excellent user notes at newegg.

thanks for the suggestion.  I assume you're talking about this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371031

based on all the comments here, 620W should be more than enough for everything.
at $70, that will add $25 to the total cost.



Thanks again to everyone for all the input, it's definitely very helpful!

[mattmiller]

You and JAson mentioned thermal paste.  Please excuse my ignorance, but what am I using the thermal paste for?  I assume for something during the actual assembly.  I have spent most of my time reading up about the actual components, and I haven't really spent any time reading about the actual assembly, figuring that I would read up on that after everything is ordered.

The thermal paste is for mounting the heatsink to the CPU.  Again, I'm not familiar with AMDs, but with Intel CPUs the stock paste that comes pre-applied to the stock heatsink is considered very poor.  The general consensus is that you want to clean that paste off and apply a bead of better paste (Arctic Silver 5 was the top choice when I built my last system a couple of years ago -- not sure if there's a newer and better paste now).  It's very important that this is done correctly, though, so look for instructions for applying paste specifically to your CPU.  You want to apply the bare minimum in order to fill in the microscopic imperfections between the surfaces of the heatsink and CPU.  It essentially bridges the microscopic gaps between the surfaces and thus pulls heat off of the CPU better.  But if you get too much, then you're just adding resistance to the heat flow.

EDIT TO ADD:  Cleaning the stock paste off the heatsink also has a "proper" procedure.  You want to use something like a coffee filter that won't leave behind any residue.  Just dip it in a little alcohol and wipe it off, trying not to touch the surface (the oils in your fingers are theoretically bad for heat transfer).  That should work just fine for fresh pre-applied paste.  Sometimes when I replace a CPU the old paste is pretty dry and crusty and it's harder to clean off.  I have a bottle of pure xylene which works even better than alcohol for getting the dry paste off (probably not needed for you, assuming the stock AMD paste is as easy to get off as the stock Intel paste).

Are you saying that I should get one (or two?) 120mm fans for the "front bezel" to coll the hard drives?  but not really needed if I go with just a single hard drive?  what about a single hard drive + a SSD?  the SSD doesn't generate heat like a regular hard drive, correct?

If I did decide to get additional fans, I assume something like this would be good:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185054
($25 each, or $50 for two)

A front fan is probably not necessary for one hard drive UNLESS you plan on placing the tower somewhere where airflow is restricted.  But, again, it's never a bad idea.  That fan you linked looks fine (it says it's $12.99 though, not $25).  You would certainly only need one (if you NEED it at all).

[Walstib62]

Thermal paste, or heat sink compound, helps transmit heat from the component to the heat sink for better cooling.

[mattmiller]

Also, if for any reason you decide on the Cooler Master case, it comes with an 80 mm fan in the front, so you wouldn't need to buy one.  If you decide to look at any other case be sure to check the specs to see what size fans they take, if they come with them, etc.

Some general thoughts that come to mind about building PC's:

My least favorite part every time is mounting the heatsink to the motherboard.  (Again -- maybe AMD's are different).  But most of the Intel heatsinks these days are very tight, with four "legs" that you have to push into holes on the motherboard.  It always feels like I'm going to snap the motherboard.  So be cautious of that.

My second least favorite part is making the connections from the front panel of the case to the motherboard (power switch, power reset, hard drive activity light, etc.).  The motherboard manual is almost always pretty clear about what goes where, but the wires from the case are often not labeled very well and the instructions that come with most cases are very poor.  And then once you figure out where to connect them you have to find a way to SEE yourself making the connections with your giant hands blocking your view, blocking the light, etc.

[flipp]

My initial concern with only one HD was based on not knowing you had TBs of storage available elsewhere. Since you have a large amount of storage and will only be using this for processing, the HD you originally planned is sufficient both size and speed wise. If you want something faster SSD leads the pack. If you want proven reliability consider something along the lines of a Seagate Cheetah or WD Velociraptor (10-15Krpm enterprise class drives with proven track records) but both are more expensive.

Card reader has USB connectivity cause you can plug a USB cable into it; however, the reader itself plugs into the floppy header on the MB - at least mine does - so you get faster throughput than connecting your external device, be it recorder, camera or whatever, with a cable. I transferred a 1.8gb file from the other night to two different boxes. My DAW with the card reader had it transferred in well under 2 minutes. To make sure I had a backup copy I used an external reader connected with USB2 cable and the transfer took about 8 minutes. From past experience if I had hooked the MT2496 to the second box and transferred via USB2 it would have been in the 15-18 minute range.

If budget is more a concern than time of transfer, and with you doing less recording then time becomes even less a factor, and you are satisfied with your current process there is no reason to spend money you don't really need to.

[rastasean]

Sorry, I didn't mean to bring up a sensitive subject with windows but if you're wanting to cut costs and don't already have the os, you could look elsewhere.
I like the selections you have made so far.

[JasonSobel]

thanks for all the very helpful replies.  Especially mattmiller - great info on thermal paste.  Not that it answers all my questions, but definitely points me in the right direction about what to read up on, and what to watch out for.

Card reader has USB connectivity cause you can plug a USB cable into it; however, the reader itself plugs into the floppy header on the MB - at least mine does - so you get faster throughput than connecting your external device, be it recorder, camera or whatever, with a cable. I transferred a 1.8gb file from the other night to two different boxes. My DAW with the card reader had it transferred in well under 2 minutes. To make sure I had a backup copy I used an external reader connected with USB2 cable and the transfer took about 8 minutes. From past experience if I had hooked the MT2496 to the second box and transferred via USB2 it would have been in the 15-18 minute range.

If budget is more a concern than time of transfer, and with you doing less recording then time becomes even less a factor, and you are satisfied with your current process there is no reason to spend money you don't really need to.

good to know.  while it seems like a good time savings, I think the external reader I have will do the job for now.  I can always add an internal one later if I want to speed things up.

Sorry, I didn't mean to bring up a sensitive subject with windows but if you're wanting to cut costs and don't already have the os, you could look elsewhere.
I like the selections you have made so far.

no worries.  and it's not that it's a sensitive subject, just that I wasnted to keep this thread focused on hardware, because I know that the Windows vs Linux vs Mac discussion can easily take on a life of it's own.

Basically, we're going with Windows 7 because it's what my wife is most comfortable with, and she'll be using the computer as well.  I know it'll add costs vs free linux OS, but that's the way it goes sometimes.  The cost of Win 7 was factored into my my decisions to have a hardware budget in the $500 +/- range.  Although I don't really want to push it much past that, I might be able to a bit.  The original hardware budget was $700 - $800 range, but we had to buy a new lawn mower this week, which is cutting in the new computer budget.  But, from the looks of it, I think I'll be just fine with the $500 +/- budget for the computer.  but if it's something that will really help push out the longevity of the machine, I could probably stretch the budget a little.

From the looks of it, based on the comments in this thread, the biggest thing that might stretch the $500 budget is a second HD or SSD for the operating system and programs.

thanks again for everyone's help.  and if anyone has any more thoughts/comments, I'm all ears