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Offline Big Perm

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battery solutions for sd788
« on: October 31, 2011, 12:19:55 AM »
did i really miss it, or is there nothing in this section about this.
Whats the best solution for a 788. I have the battery from my 744 but i wonder about how much more power the 788 pulls
Mics: Schoeps mk22>kcy>vst62iu
         Schoeps mk5> KC5> CMC6Ug
         Schoeps CCM 41V, Neumann TLM 107
Pre’s: Sonosax SX-M2D2; Aeta PSP-3, E.A.A. PSP-2,
         Neve Portico 5012, Oade m248
Recorder: SD788t, SDMixPre-10t, SD702, Sony m10

Offline page

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 12:47:45 AM »
did i really miss it, or is there nothing in this section about this.
Whats the best solution for a 788. I have the battery from my 744 but i wonder about how much more power the 788 pulls

the bottom batteries for the 744 work on the 788 but you need an external battery (e.g. a tekkeon) to start the unit; too much draw for the Sony camera batteries and they trip a circuit breaker of sorts. SD is aware of the flaw.

It's also probably not advisable to leave P48 on for all channels and try and start it. That whooshing sound is your battery gasping as the surge of current is drawn on start up... :lol:
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline sunset

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 11:30:58 AM »
 On the right hand side of the unit,there is a Hirose 4-pin DC in plug.This is the power "in" plug you want to use,you'll need to custom splice a cable(Ted could probably help you out) from the 7xx(Hirose 4-pin) to your battery.I used the Tekkeon extended batteries for awhile but now I use the Battery Geek batteries.The Tekkeons would cut off on me every now and then,so I switched to the Battery Geeks and have had good luck with  them.Enjoy your new tool.

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 02:14:21 PM »
On the right hand side of the unit,there is a Hirose 4-pin DC in plug.This is the power "in" plug you want to use,you'll need to custom splice a cable(Ted could probably help you out) from the 7xx(Hirose 4-pin) to your battery.I used the Tekkeon extended batteries for awhile but now I use the Battery Geek batteries.The Tekkeons would cut off on me every now and then,so I switched to the Battery Geeks and have had good luck with  them.Enjoy your new tool.

I had Ted do a tekkeon>hirose cable for me that I've used and I've had great luck with it on two conditions; I have to calculate the capacity as the LEDs on mine lie, and I have to bump the voltage up by at least half a volt above what the minimum is. I've found that many tekkeon units when set to X actually sag a bit under load, so a 10v setting actually puts out anywhere from 9.2 to 9.9 or 10v true based on the SD battery meter (averaging 0.3v off in my experience). The more the draw, the further it seems to sag, at least for the first 15 minutes or so (I quit checking after that until I was done a show). So I run mine at 11v or 12v instead of 10v as a result.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 05:22:04 PM »
for the price of $200 it blows everything else out the water:

http://www.bixnet.com/unpowbat.html

153Whours

Offline hi and lo

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 06:28:56 PM »
for the price of $200 it blows everything else out the water:

http://www.bixnet.com/unpowbat.html

153Whours

nice find!

Offline acidjack

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 12:37:08 PM »
^^ Yes... appears that, like a Tekkeon, you could run both a deck and the USBpre2 off the same batt... hmm.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 03:38:17 PM »
did i really miss it, or is there nothing in this section about this.
Whats the best solution for a 788. I have the battery from my 744 but i wonder about how much more power the 788 pulls

the bottom batteries for the 744 work on the 788 but you need an external battery (e.g. a tekkeon) to start the unit; too much draw for the Sony camera batteries and they trip a circuit breaker of sorts. SD is aware of the flaw.

It's also probably not advisable to leave P48 on for all channels and try and start it. That whooshing sound is your battery gasping as the surge of current is drawn on start up... :lol:

http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/lion-batteries/

here is some info on the power consumption:
http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/powering/power-draw/
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 03:40:46 PM by NOLAfishwater »

Offline Big Perm

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 08:55:49 PM »
Thanks Louis, however those damn power consumption charts just confuse the hell out of me... I have one of those double tekkeons, the one with the extended power blah blah blah....i think that should work...hoping  ???
a
Mics: Schoeps mk22>kcy>vst62iu
         Schoeps mk5> KC5> CMC6Ug
         Schoeps CCM 41V, Neumann TLM 107
Pre’s: Sonosax SX-M2D2; Aeta PSP-3, E.A.A. PSP-2,
         Neve Portico 5012, Oade m248
Recorder: SD788t, SDMixPre-10t, SD702, Sony m10

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 09:54:31 PM »
the draw of the unit also depends on the draw of the mics. looks like your mics only draw 100mA each of the 4 mics so that is a total of 400mA

http://digital.schoeps.de/en/products/cmd2

based on the 788t draw which is found here: http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/ssd-current-draw/

It draws 1.15A  when Recording (24-bit, 48 kHz, 8-track) + mic draw 400mA (or .4A) = 1.55A

so the chart was based off 13V DC power so 13V x 1.55A = 20.15 Watts per hour



Also, other 788T usage factors have larger affect on power consumption and battery runtime, including:

    Inputs – active inputs increase power consumption. If recording solely to one or two inputs, disable unused inputs to reduce power consumption. Analog inputs and their microphone preamps draw current whether they are idle or active. Inputs draw 1.5 W versus to deactivated inputs.<<< so for every channel deactivated you get that much more run time
    Drive Activity – when the unit is recording to or playing back from the internal drive, power consumption raises by approximately 2 W. Recording to CF only reduces power consumption.
    Microphone Powering -  phantom powered microphones draw power for operation. Up to 4 W can be drawn from the phantom supply. <<< we already determined the consumption of the mics with 13V DC  as .4 amps or 5.2 Watts for all 4 mics being powered, which is great.




now to your batteries:  Tekkeon 3450  specs found here: http://www.tekkeon.com/downloads/dtasht_MP3450.pdf

each is equal to 50Wh, the piggy back is 58Wh so, paired together you get 108Wh


The 788 draws 20.15 Watt per hour so divide the dual Tekekon108Wh capacity by 20.15 = 5.35hours x 70% efficiency = ~3.74 hours

remember if you record to the internal hard drive or run your LED's/Backlight bright, this will also cut down on the run time.

If it were me, I would buy this 300 Watt Hour battery for $400  http://www.bixnet.com/bp300.html 70%eff = 10.42 hours run time
in regards to it needing to jumpstart the 788:
Continuous Discharge Current 12 A <<this is the max that you can pull at one time continuously



or I would at least get the 153 Watt Hour battery for $200 http://www.bixnet.com/unpowbat.html  70%eff = 5.31 hours run time
Continuous Discharge Current  is 4.75A  <<this is the max that you can pull at one time continuously



Someone please correct me if I am wrong, as I am not an electrical engineer

Offline notlance

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2011, 12:01:44 AM »
the bottom batteries for the 744 work on the 788 but you need an external battery (e.g. a tekkeon) to start the unit; too much draw for the Sony camera batteries and they trip a circuit breaker of sorts. SD is aware of the flaw.

This is the first time I have heard of this problem.  I am not saying it does not happen to somebody else, but I have run my 788T for several years with various "internal" Li-Ion batteries (including Sony) without having any start up issues.

Offline notlance

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2011, 12:13:34 AM »
I have run tests on a 788T and have found the LEDs draw very little power so whether or not they are on has little effect on battery run time.

Also, the HD draws surprisingly little power.  The slightly extra power used when recording to HD and CF is worth it to me for the redundancy.  Dual media is one of the great features you are paying extra for with a SD box so it would be a shame not to use it just to save a little bit of power.

It is worthwhile to turn off unused inputs.


Offline Big Perm

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2011, 12:17:32 AM »
the bottom batteries for the 744 work on the 788 but you need an external battery (e.g. a tekkeon) to start the unit; too much draw for the Sony camera batteries and they trip a circuit breaker of sorts. SD is aware of the flaw.

This is the first time I have heard of this problem.  I am not saying it does not happen to somebody else, but I have run my 788T for several years with various "internal" Li-Ion batteries (including Sony) without having any start up issues.

So do you use an external battery at all? If so what, and which lion "internal" do you use?
Mics: Schoeps mk22>kcy>vst62iu
         Schoeps mk5> KC5> CMC6Ug
         Schoeps CCM 41V, Neumann TLM 107
Pre’s: Sonosax SX-M2D2; Aeta PSP-3, E.A.A. PSP-2,
         Neve Portico 5012, Oade m248
Recorder: SD788t, SDMixPre-10t, SD702, Sony m10

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2011, 12:35:34 AM »
the bottom batteries for the 744 work on the 788 but you need an external battery (e.g. a tekkeon) to start the unit; too much draw for the Sony camera batteries and they trip a circuit breaker of sorts. SD is aware of the flaw.

This is the first time I have heard of this problem.  I am not saying it does not happen to somebody else, but I have run my 788T for several years with various "internal" Li-Ion batteries (including Sony) without having any start up issues.

DrFob and a guy from San Francisco named Matt will be happy to tell you their inner most feelings about it.  :D Up until you said something, I'd never met anyone who had gotten a standard 7.2v lion to work with it for starting.

http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/lion-batteries/

Thanks, I was busy this afternoon and didn't look but knew the bulletin was out there. +T
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2011, 01:05:55 AM »
You could get a Sony DK-415 Dummy Cell and wire any battery your heart desires ;)m Or just stick w the old reliable 12v SLA's :P ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
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Offline notlance

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 01:49:00 AM »
DrFob and a guy from San Francisco named Matt will be happy to tell you their inner most feelings about it.  :D Up until you said something, I'd never met anyone who had gotten a standard 7.2v lion to work with it for starting.

Interesting.  So this made me go back and check all my 7.2V Li-Ion batteries.  I own both a 788T and a 788T-SSD.  The were configured at start-up with all inputs turned off and both the internal drive and CF selected.  All of the following 7.2V Li-Ion "L" or "M" type batteries booted either box just fine:

Battery Price 6600 mAhr
CTA 2200 mAhr
CTA 4600 mAhr sample 1 & CTA 4600 mAhr sample 2
Energizer ER-C520
Energizer ER-C545
"No Name" 2400 mAhr
Sony NP-FM50
Sony NP-F970
Synergy 6900 mAhr sample 1 & Synergy 6900 mAhr sample 2

Offline notlance

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 02:01:24 AM »
So do you use an external battery at all? If so what, and which lion "internal" do you use?

Yes, I always use both an external and "internal" battery.  Since I am also a bicyclist, I bought this:

http://www.batteryspace.com/Trail-Tech-Single-13W-HID-Helmet-Light-12.8V-6.6Ah-LiFePO4-Water-Bottle.aspx

for use as a bicycle light and to power my 788T.  Sometimes I take my recording gear on the bike and use the battery for both purposes in the same night.

As for the 7.2V Li-Ion batteries I use, they are listed in the above post.

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2011, 10:10:58 AM »
I have run tests on a 788T and have found the LEDs draw very little power so whether or not they are on has little effect on battery run time.

Also, the HD draws surprisingly little power.  The slightly extra power used when recording to HD and CF is worth it to me for the redundancy.  Dual media is one of the great features you are paying extra for with a SD box so it would be a shame not to use it just to save a little bit of power.

It is worthwhile to turn off unused inputs.

post your results, b/c if you run them bright, they draw a decent amount of power. I have experienced this with the 744.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2011, 12:32:51 AM »
You could get a Sony DK-415 Dummy Cell and wire any battery your heart desires ;)m Or just stick w the old reliable 12v SLA's :P ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's (x2) ->
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Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
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Offline notlance

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2011, 11:37:19 PM »
I have run tests on a 788T and have found the LEDs draw very little power so whether or not they are on has little effect on battery run time.

post your results, b/c if you run them bright, they draw a decent amount of power. I have experienced this with the 744.

OK, here is some data:

Test set-up is a 788T, powered by external battery only, all inputs turned off, not recording.

LEDs and backlight OFF = 0.65 A x 12.9 V = 8.4 watts
LEDs and backlight ON dim = 0.72 A x 12.8 V = 9.2 watts
LEDs and backlight ON bright = 0.90 A x 12.8 V = 11.5 watts

So it will cost about 0.8 watts to run the lights dim, and 3.1 watts to run them bright.  I agree running the lights bright takes quite a bit of power.  The last time I tested this I only checked the power draw with the lights on dim since I record indoors 95% of the time and the dim lights are bright enough indoors.

Offline Big Perm

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2011, 10:55:27 PM »
Ok, so for those out there wondering....I'm sure you are just biting your nails :P this is what I decided to go with:

http://www.bixnet.com/bp300.html

Super High Capacity (300 Watt-hour) Lithium Ion Battery Pack -BP300

Pricey, but I have ZERO worries about power now. I have not run a time check yet, I will next week probably, but I've used it for 3 shows now and have one lost 1 out of 5 lights. And that's leaving everything on from once I check levels until its time to go home. Ted made me a KILLER power cable. The battery is pretty big, but it just slides in middle slot in front of the 788t in the new pegz. The beauty of he new digital set up is cmd-2Uxt bodies and the 788t & I'm ready to roll.

I'll post pics later to show size.
Mics: Schoeps mk22>kcy>vst62iu
         Schoeps mk5> KC5> CMC6Ug
         Schoeps CCM 41V, Neumann TLM 107
Pre’s: Sonosax SX-M2D2; Aeta PSP-3, E.A.A. PSP-2,
         Neve Portico 5012, Oade m248
Recorder: SD788t, SDMixPre-10t, SD702, Sony m10

Offline coloartist

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2012, 01:43:34 AM »
I just picked up a Rayovac 6600mah battery from a Batteries Plus store(# cam10188). It fired the 788t right up without external power.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 01:46:55 AM by coloartist »
mk4>Kwon/din a/din>kc5>cmc6>kindkables XLR>788T
mk22>Kwon/NOS>kc5>cmc6>kindkablesXLR>788t                                                     
Canon XH-A1 Sony AX100                       
Samsung Backlit LED 55">Pioneer Elite SC-27>Snell Acoustics E.5  Series

Offline Big Perm

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2012, 10:25:29 AM »
I just picked up a Rayovac 6600mah battery from a Batteries Plus store(# cam10188). It fired the 788t right up without external power.

How long will it run the 788?  I'll have to look at the battery I bought that fits in the back and see if it's 6600, but it will only run the 788 for about 3 hrs. Let me know if you get good times off that battery and I'll pick one up ASAP. However the big one I got I absolutely love. Never worry about power at all!
Mics: Schoeps mk22>kcy>vst62iu
         Schoeps mk5> KC5> CMC6Ug
         Schoeps CCM 41V, Neumann TLM 107
Pre’s: Sonosax SX-M2D2; Aeta PSP-3, E.A.A. PSP-2,
         Neve Portico 5012, Oade m248
Recorder: SD788t, SDMixPre-10t, SD702, Sony m10

Offline coloartist

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2012, 07:01:56 PM »
I just picked up a Rayovac 6600mah battery from a Batteries Plus store(# cam10188). It fired the 788t right up without external power.

How long will it run the 788?  I'll have to look at the battery I bought that fits in the back and see if it's 6600, but it will only run the 788 for about 3 hrs. Let me know if you get good times off that battery and I'll pick one up ASAP. However the big one I got I absolutely love. Never worry about power at all!

Ok, I tested it once so far, so this is the first use on the battery. I was only running 4 channels. I was pretty impressed.

4 channels 24/48 - 4 mono tracks
Phantom power to all 4 channels
Schoeps cmc6
Meter lights on medium
writing to hard drive and CF
battery level indicator flashed for last hour
last working Volt level I saw was 6.6v

3:32:32
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 07:04:36 PM by coloartist »
mk4>Kwon/din a/din>kc5>cmc6>kindkables XLR>788T
mk22>Kwon/NOS>kc5>cmc6>kindkablesXLR>788t                                                     
Canon XH-A1 Sony AX100                       
Samsung Backlit LED 55">Pioneer Elite SC-27>Snell Acoustics E.5  Series

Offline Dr.FOB

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2012, 11:11:50 PM »
This supports what I figure I'm running. 
From your numbers  6.6Ah*7.4V=48.8Wh/3.5hr=14W
My running estimates with 6 channels(4 Soundfield, 2 Neumann) have been about 15W...

300Wh/15W you should expect 20hrs out of that big mother (if they rated it correctely).

I'm building a festival battery that should rate 240Ahr and give me about 16hrs.
I'll let you know how it goes!
Neumann gear slut

Offline Big Perm

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2012, 08:47:58 PM »
I just picked up a Rayovac 6600mah battery from a Batteries Plus store(# cam10188). It fired the 788t right up without external power.

How long will it run the 788?  I'll have to look at the battery I bought that fits in the back and see if it's 6600, but it will only run the 788 for about 3 hrs. Let me know if you get good times off that battery and I'll pick one up ASAP. However the big one I got I absolutely love. Never worry about power at all!

Ok, I tested it once so far, so this is the first use on the battery. I was only running 4 channels. I was pretty impressed.

4 channels 24/48 - 4 mono tracks
Phantom power to all 4 channels
Schoeps cmc6
Meter lights on medium
writing to hard drive and CF
battery level indicator flashed for last hour
last working Volt level I saw was 6.6v

3:32:32

So how long did it run?
Mics: Schoeps mk22>kcy>vst62iu
         Schoeps mk5> KC5> CMC6Ug
         Schoeps CCM 41V, Neumann TLM 107
Pre’s: Sonosax SX-M2D2; Aeta PSP-3, E.A.A. PSP-2,
         Neve Portico 5012, Oade m248
Recorder: SD788t, SDMixPre-10t, SD702, Sony m10

Offline coloartist

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2012, 06:05:18 AM »
3 hours:32 minutes:32 seconds

Did about the same 3 times.

I also pulled the trigger on this battery off of EBAY. We will see if I even get this battery from Hong Kong, and then we will see it boots the 788t, then we will see if it is what is advertised. :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-4v-8000mAh-Battery-For-SONY-DCR-TRV310-DCR-TRV900-NP-F950-NP-F970?item=280742436170&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7688342445877200744



$23.69 shipped from Hong Kong
Features:
Capacity: 8000mAh
Voltage: 7.4V    59.20WH
Type: Li-ion
Overload protection
Color: Black
Quantity: 1

mk4>Kwon/din a/din>kc5>cmc6>kindkables XLR>788T
mk22>Kwon/NOS>kc5>cmc6>kindkablesXLR>788t                                                     
Canon XH-A1 Sony AX100                       
Samsung Backlit LED 55">Pioneer Elite SC-27>Snell Acoustics E.5  Series

Offline Big Perm

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Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2012, 08:49:57 AM »
Thats a lt of we'll see's! But for $24 it's a well worth the try. Let me know how that works out. I still recommend an external battery for piece of mind. 3 1/2 hrs is too close for comfort for me. GOOD luck on the new one!!
Mics: Schoeps mk22>kcy>vst62iu
         Schoeps mk5> KC5> CMC6Ug
         Schoeps CCM 41V, Neumann TLM 107
Pre’s: Sonosax SX-M2D2; Aeta PSP-3, E.A.A. PSP-2,
         Neve Portico 5012, Oade m248
Recorder: SD788t, SDMixPre-10t, SD702, Sony m10

Offline coloartist

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  • MGoldey -"you can shove those mics up your ass
Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2012, 11:43:16 AM »
Don't you worry. I have a Tekkeon. I just want to be able to use the deck without the external when needed. Two three hour batteries will generally get me through any show and if this new battery can go over four hours I will be even happier.
mk4>Kwon/din a/din>kc5>cmc6>kindkables XLR>788T
mk22>Kwon/NOS>kc5>cmc6>kindkablesXLR>788t                                                     
Canon XH-A1 Sony AX100                       
Samsung Backlit LED 55">Pioneer Elite SC-27>Snell Acoustics E.5  Series

Offline coloartist

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  • MGoldey -"you can shove those mics up your ass
Re: battery solutions for sd788
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2012, 09:09:34 PM »
OK, here is what I found. The battery got here in 10 days from Hong Kong to Colorado.

Seems like a nice battery, same size as my 6600mah.
Booted the 788t right up.

First run through I got 4:04:45
Second run through I got 4:05:56

4 channels 24/48 - 4 mono tracks
Phantom power to all 4 channels
Schoeps cmc6
Meter lights on medium
writing to hard drive and CF
battery level indicator flashed for last hour

I ordered another.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 06:22:48 PM by coloartist »
mk4>Kwon/din a/din>kc5>cmc6>kindkables XLR>788T
mk22>Kwon/NOS>kc5>cmc6>kindkablesXLR>788t                                                     
Canon XH-A1 Sony AX100                       
Samsung Backlit LED 55">Pioneer Elite SC-27>Snell Acoustics E.5  Series

 

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