Topic: Tascam DR100mkii Review

[stevetoney]

I found this: 2.5mm TRRS plug to RCA female adaptor for GPS Video Input

here:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-5mm-TRS-plug-RCA-female-adaptor-GPS-Video-Input-/330611669636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf9fdba84

Really just finally checking in, since this looks like a good recorder option.  Thanks for the detailed review Steve!

On the cable, is the included cable a TRRS cable?  The Tascam website lists the digital input jack as a 2.5mm TRS jack, not a TRRS jack.

Both.  Look at the photos in the review that I took of the cables that are included in the package.  In the review, I noted the differences in the tips.  The cable that connects to the remote is a 2.5mm TRS, but the digi-cable is 2.5mm TRRS.

[Todd R]

Thanks Steve.  I read the first iteration or two of the review, but I guess I need to go back and read the edited and fully expanded one.

I've seen several places to get a right-angle 2.5mm TRRS cable assembly that cable builders could use to make custom cables (right angle always seems like the way to go for me), but I haven't found any right-angle 2.5mm TRRS connectors themselves yet.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=090-504

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=172-7426

http://readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=168

[stevetoney]

I've seen several places to get a right-angle 2.5mm TRRS cable assembly that cable builders could use to make custom cables (right angle always seems like the way to go for me), but I haven't found any right-angle 2.5mm TRRS connectors themselves yet.

Thanks alot for the links Todd.  I may just have to order some of these connectors.  I agree that RA would be the way to go and I'd just eliminate the middle connection altogether and make a cable that goes straight into the spdif on my mini-me.  I'd think that the RA connector would help minimize the chance that the connector accidentally gets pulled out.  Then with the RA in place, what I like to do is wrap a rubber band around the unit and the cable (which is now hugging the side of the unit) and that makes for additional protection against having the connector pulled out of the jack during a show.

[Sebastian]

I just got mine today.

On a first test run, I got 3 hours out of the internal Li-Ion battery with the MBHO actives and P48 on. However, the run time of the AAs is just ridiculous. I got 10 minutes from a fully-charged pair of Eneloops, 25 minutes from a pair of Sanyo 2700 mAh Ni-MH rechargeables and 9 minutes from a new pair of Varta "High Energy" non-rechargeables.

While the Li-Ion performance is what I had expected, the AA performance is just disappointing. I am still thinking about whether or not to keep the recorder. If I keep it, I guess I'll have to get a secondary Li-Ion pack for those shows when I want to tape more than one band...

[stevetoney]

I just got mine today.

On a first test run, I got 3 hours out of the internal Li-Ion battery with the MBHO actives and P48 on. However, the run time of the AAs is just ridiculous. I got 10 minutes from a fully-charged pair of Eneloops, 25 minutes from a pair of Sanyo 2700 mAh Ni-MH rechargeables and 9 minutes from a new pair of Varta "High Energy" non-rechargeables.

While the Li-Ion performance is what I had expected, the AA performance is just disappointing. I am still thinking about whether or not to keep the recorder. If I keep it, I guess I'll have to get a secondary Li-Ion pack for those shows when I want to tape more than one band...

I agree...that's disappointing. 

I think I'm going to reach out to Tascam about this.  There's something not right about what you guys are seeing...I really wish I had a pair of P48 mics so I could also test. 

The BP-L2 Li-ion battery is rated 3.7V and 1800 mah.

Alkalines are rated 1.5V and 1800 - 2400 mah each...so a pair provides a capacity of 3V and 3600 mah minimum.

NiMH are rated 1.25V and 800 to 2400 mah each...so a pair provides a capacity of 2.5V and 1600 mah minimum.

What this tells me is that AAs SHOULD be giving longer run times than the Li-ion.  Regardless, just by comparing the ratings, you shouldn't be getting a fraction of the run-time from the AAs than you get from the Li-ion.

Having said this, the specs of the unit say that the maximum draw is 4W...that's very high compared to other devices, but that still doesn't explain the differences in run-time between the two.

[Sebastian]

I think I'm going to reach out to Tascam about this.  There's something not right about what you guys are seeing...I really wish I had a pair of P48 mics so I could also test. 

Thanks, please let us know when you get an answer from them.

I just realized something interesting. When I insert a fresh pair of AAs, the battery indicator in the top right corner of the recorder's display only shows 2 out of 4 bars. I'm getting this behavior with Ni-MH rechargeables and 1.5V alkalines. Is anybody else getting more bars on the battery indicator from AAs?

Edit: The manual lists a run time of 5 hours for Li-Ion and 4 hours for Eneloop (2000 mAh) AAs. That means AAs should run for around 80% of the Li-Ion's run time. The Li-Ion has a specified wattage of 6.66Wh (3.7V x 1800mAh). Two Eneloop AAs have a wattage of 5Wh (2 x 1.25V x 2000mAh). This is 75% of the wattage of the Li-Ion and therefore consistent with the manual. And, at a specified maximum power consumption of 4W, the Eneloops should at least last an hour.

[stevetoney]

I just realized something interesting. When I insert a fresh pair of AAs, the battery indicator in the top right corner of the recorder's display only shows 2 out of 4 bars. I'm getting this behavior with Ni-MH rechargeables and 1.5V alkalines. Is anybody else getting more bars on the battery indicator from AAs?

Yes and no.  A fresh pair of AA's showed all bars, but I do recall inserting a freshly recharged pair of brand new Ni-mh and it had a bar missing upon initial installation.  Don't forget that you need to choose the proper battery on the menu selection.  The only reason for this though is so the meter will be calibrated correctly for the battery you're using.  The voltage of the fresh li-ion is 3.7V where the voltage of a pair of AAs is either 2.5V or 3V.  I'm pretty sure that the number of bars is a function of the voltage. 

However, I really don't think this has anything to do with your short run-times on P48. 

Edit: The manual lists a run time of 5 hours for Li-Ion and 4 hours for Eneloop (2000 mAh) AAs. That means AAs should run for around 80% of the Li-Ion's run time. The Li-Ion has a specified wattage of 6.66Wh (3.7V x 1800mAh). Two Eneloop AAs have a wattage of 5Wh (2 x 1.25V x 2000mAh). This is 75% of the wattage of the Li-Ion and therefore consistent with the manual. And, at a specified maximum power consumption of 4W, the Eneloops should at least last an hour.

These numbers are consistent with the run times that I got (my ni-mh batteries are 2300 mah), but my run-time tests were using the internal mics.  Repeating the results I got below...

Li-ion - 5 1/2 hours
Ni-Mh - 5 hours
Alkaline - 3 1/2 hours

If you extrapolate these results to the results that you guys got with using the internals with P48 mics, you should be seeing approximately the following run-times...

Li-ion - 3 hours
Ni-Mh - 2 1/2 - 2 3/4 hours
Alkaline - 1 3/4 - 2 hours

Hmmm, in spite of the above, your run-times weren't even remotely close, so something isn't right. 

Question:  Did either of you guys get any heat when you used AA's and P48?  If you only got 10 - 30 minutes out of a fresh pair of batteries, all of that energy had to go somewhere!

[stevetoney]

Message I just sent to Tascam web support...

****

Hi!  I've volunteered to write you on behalf of several users of the new DR-100MKII units that we've recently purchased.  I ordered mine from the B&H website the first day it was available and have been impressed with it since the day I got it.  I'm an active member of a website you might be familiar with...taperssection.com.  You might be interested to read a review that I wrote on the unit...the link is provided below...

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=152321.0

If you page through the responses to my review, you'll see a few responses from users in which they get VERY short run times from their units when powering from the AA batteries and providing P48 to their microphones.  In fact, the run-times are so short that there seems to be either a design problem or something else going on because the run-times are both inconsistent with the run-times stated in the manual, but also based on common sense.  For example, one user has stated with multiple battery types, the longest run-time he got was 10 minutes from AA's, even though he got 3 hours from the Li-ion! 

Do you have any thoughts on what might be the issue here or have any other users reported on this?

Since I took the lead on prepared the detailed review and have been active soliciting feedback on the unit, I also volunteered to contact Tascam to see what responses you might have on this issue.  Your response is appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Steve Toney

[F.O.Bean]

Thats a HUGE BUMMER bout the runtimes

How long do NIMH AA's last when just recording the Digital Coax INPUT

[Ozpeter]

Going through AA's that fast means they are being close to short-circuited with possible safety issues.  Were they actually dead when the recorder said they were?  Is there a battery type setting somewhere, such that the recorder is properly set for the battery type in use?

[stevetoney]

Going through AA's that fast means they are being close to short-circuited with possible safety issues.  Were they actually dead when the recorder said they were?  Is there a battery type setting somewhere, such that the recorder is properly set for the battery type in use?

Right.  There is a battery type setting, but as I understand it those settings are simply for calibrating the meter so that it shows proper drainage, since Ni-MH and Alkalines provide different start voltages.  (The meter calibration is a second issue that seems to be a problem, but I'm 90% sure it's unrelated to this issue...see my earlier comment to Sebastian.  To me this isn't much of an issue especially because of the automatic switching...the unit will switch when the batteries are dead so I don't really need to worry too much about what the meter reads, but this is me and other people might want the meter to read properly.)

SEBASTIAN and DOGMUSIC, did you experience any heating issues during your AA run-time tests, because that fast a discharge would require the energy to dissipate somewhere. 

[stevetoney]

Thats a HUGE BUMMER bout the runtimes

How long do NIMH AA's last when just recording the Digital Coax INPUT

5 hours.

[stevetoney]

2011-12-30 20:54:29
Hello Steve Toney,
Thank you for contacting TASCAM.
Our customer support representative, NFaison, has written
the following response to your message:
 
 
Steve,
 
First, a very thorough review. Very impressive.
 
I read your review but not the complete thread yet.
Did your use reflect similar results as the other users regarding the use of AA batteries?
 
I will be forwarding this to the design engineers to see what they have to say about it.
Please be patient as we have the New Year holiday upon us along with NAMM show preparations.
We will definitely be getting back to you as soon as there are some definitive answers.
 
Again, great review.
 
Thank you for your interest in TASCAM products.
 

[kleiner Rainer]

Hi all,

just a little clarification concerning battery capacity:

Amp-Hours do NOT add when batteries or rechargeables are connected in series!

Amp-Hours indicate how long you can draw a certain current from a battery. This quantity does not change when you connect two or more cells in series.

Another point to keep in mind is the power consumption of P48:

assuming two mics with 5mA each and an efficiency of the step-up converter for 48V of 80% we get

48Vx5mAx2/0.8= 0.6W or 600mW.

If we assume two NiMh cells at 2.5V (1.25V per cell), this amounts to an additional current draw of 0.24A only for P48!

Keep in mind that non-rechargeable AA cells (even Alkalines) have a rather high internal resistance that can lead to premature undervoltage shutdown of your recorder, especially with P48.

BTW a fully charged Li Ion cell has an open circuit voltage of 4.2V, and it takes some time to drop to 3.7V. Li Ion voltage is proportional to remaining capacity, so a simple voltage measurement ("battery bars") gives a good approximation of state of charge.
This is also true for alkalines, but not for NiCD or NiMH!


My advice: use good quality rechargeables with low internal resistance from reputable sources. Most of the well known brands have specifications online for their cells and state how they measure their cells. I would not bet on no-name products or e*ay bargains...

An example can be found here:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/nh15-2300.pdf

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E91.pdf

just for grins: compare the internal resistance of alkaline vs. NiMh!

End of battery technology lecture 


Greetings,

Rainer

[Sebastian]

I just ran down another pair of NiMHs. The unit got warm, but not really to a point that I would call it hot. But what's more interesting: I measured the voltage on the NiMHs afterwards and they had 1.274 V and 1.278 V. In my experience, empty batteries should have a lower voltage. I also inserted them into my DR-2d and this unit shows all three bars on the battery indicator. WTF?

Oh, and I did another test with the same Eneloop NiMHs I used yesterday and that got me 10 minutes with P48 on. This time, I recorded from the internal omnis and got 229 minutes just on the AAs.