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Author Topic: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables  (Read 8542 times)

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Offline H₂O

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Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« on: December 07, 2012, 04:29:53 PM »
To be clear most copies of KCY's and AKI's out there are not true to the Schoeps originals to note differences:

- Schoeps has a custom junction box and board that the cables are terminated on - this box is electrically shielded - two versions of the box exist an early version (20+ years old) with 4 screws and the newer 3 screw version
- The KCY has a single WIMA metal film cap between the joined polarization voltage and GND
- The AKI has a single WIMA metal film cap between the joined polarization voltage and GND and also has two inline resistors on each polarization voltage lead

It is important to note these differences as they may affect performance your setup when running copied cables and are not up to Schoeps specs.

As a side note the cables I build are nearly exact copies using the same circuits and components/values to meet Schoeps specs.


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Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 04:39:20 PM »

It is important to note these differences as they may affect performance your setup when running copied cables and are not up to Schoeps specs.


All of this is true, but this needs to be quantified. Schoeps includes these components because it's good practice, but there have been plenty of custom cables that omit these parts and, for all intents and purposes, are completely acceptable performance wise.

Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 05:38:08 PM »
I am asking Schoeps what are the purpose of these components and will get back once I hear back

I will say if you run an unshielded junction box and or cable junction you will risk picking up cell phone interference. 

The AKI RC components are my guess for balancing the 60V polarization voltage across 2 voltage source on the AKI and thus protecting the power circuits in the bodies - if one body has a greatly different polarization voltage then then other (and you don't have this RC network in place) then you may overdrive one of the bodies and/or cause reverse current flow into the lower voltage body possibly damaging it

The KCY Cap is balancing the Polarization across the two colettes, probably to help prevent some slight bleed across channels (probably very very slight phasing).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 06:02:19 PM by H₂O »
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 05:49:24 PM »

I will say if you run an unshielded junction box and or cable junction you will risk picking up cell phone interference. 


Yep, this is not a good idea at all. That AKI in the YS was pretty, but fundamentally inferior. This cannot be argued.


Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 05:53:53 PM »
It would reduce induced interference, and in a stereo system the cap would reduce crosstalk.

I have been encouraging people to terminate KCs separately (vs. KCY) as it's thus possible to run them balanced, but there haven't been very many takers.

So... just me (twice!)? :)

oh... and mbho as well!

Offline darktrain

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2012, 06:34:10 PM »

I will say if you run an unshielded junction box and or cable junction you will risk picking up cell phone interference. 


Yep, this is not a good idea at all. That AKI in the YS was pretty, but fundamentally inferior. This cannot be argued.

For the record I was instructed to build it like that... as small of foot print as possible with no junction box, I thought it came out good.

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2012, 07:35:01 PM »

I will say if you run an unshielded junction box and or cable junction you will risk picking up cell phone interference. 


Yep, this is not a good idea at all. That AKI in the YS was pretty, but fundamentally inferior. This cannot be argued.

For the record I was instructed to build it like that... as small of foot print as possible with no junction box, I thought it came out good.

It was absolutely gorgeous, so no worries on your end. It's just that, when there is no CMRR to reduce unwanted interference, shielding is quite important. Long-term durability might also come into play, although with that setup, replacing the y-portion of the cable is trivial.

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2012, 07:42:36 PM »
Btw... has anyone seen the new "mini-y" junction boxes on Redding's website made by Cable Techniques? A large number of junctions boxes have been purchased from Redding in the last 9 months and, from anecdotal knowledge, Schoeps is somewhat annoyed by having to sell parts for custom cable makers, only to have them end up back at the factory for repairs. I wonder if they're putting their foot down a bit or if this was just Redding being awesome and trying to find a more cost-effective part.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2012, 07:47:33 PM »
So, is it a good idea to get followinbobs collettes>cable>naiant jack/connector>tinybox ??? I mean, id obviously rather save up for another REAL KCY, but I need them quicker and cheaper method for 2013 summer taping. This time next year I can buy my real KCY
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2012, 07:49:13 PM »
And Mr.  Naiant, what connector would bob have to put on the end of bobs collettes>cable so I could use the tinybox like I use my KCY LB ??? With a simple stereo input ala the KCY Input on my LB ???

Thanks fellas!
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2012, 07:56:06 PM »
Btw... has anyone seen the new "mini-y" junction boxes on Redding's website made by Cable Techniques? A large number of junctions boxes have been purchased from Redding in the last 9 months and, from anecdotal knowledge, Schoeps is somewhat annoyed by having to sell parts for custom cable makers, only to have them end up back at the factory for repairs. I wonder if they're putting their foot down a bit or if this was just Redding being awesome and trying to find a more cost-effective part.

I bought one to check it out - it is about the same size (a bit shorter and a bit thicker) and comes with a circuit board but you will need to figure out a way to solder the signal wires together as there is no contacts for those.

Also I do not know if it is shielded as there is no coat of paint on the inside like the Schoeps one (could be in the plastic or you could coat it yourself)
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 07:59:06 PM »
Although the termination is trivial (anyone can replace it or build an adapter cable), my best guess is a 4-pin female binder.

I don't think anyone knows what FET configuration they will use, but (again) I'd guess they will be be single-ended (e.g. reutelhuber/rmod/nbox cables) rather than implement the classic Schoeps phase splitter circuit, in which case they would be balanced and need a junction box to get to the KCY configuration (which would be best suited to a 5-pin male binder).

Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 08:00:36 PM »
Btw... has anyone seen the new "mini-y" junction boxes on Redding's website made by Cable Techniques? A large number of junctions boxes have been purchased from Redding in the last 9 months and, from anecdotal knowledge, Schoeps is somewhat annoyed by having to sell parts for custom cable makers, only to have them end up back at the factory for repairs. I wonder if they're putting their foot down a bit or if this was just Redding being awesome and trying to find a more cost-effective part.

To my knowledge most cable repairs are done at Redding
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2012, 08:05:20 PM »
mhm... that anecdote came straight from Scott. It's why the junction box is an unlisted part. :)

Great to know on the junction box.. I won't bother. I think I'm just going to move forward with getting them custom made because I also need a circuit board that will support a balanced mbho configuration, which needs two extra conductors. It could also support Schoeps balanced, I suppose. Jon doesn't like the idea of using a 7-pin binder, but I think it's worth a shot.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2012, 08:24:51 PM »
Tough to say; if I was doing them for myself I'd terminate each to its own TA3M, or maybe 4M to avoid confusion, and use a Y-cable into tinybox.  There is no problem making a Y-cable with mini-XLRs, and they stay fully shielded if constructed properly.  However, it's not possible to build a Y-cable with Binder connectors, nor with mini-XLR and the Schoeps cables, which is too thick for a mini-XLR boot.  So I would use Belden cable and have a balanced input to a tinybox.

For resale value though, the Binder connector fits with the Schoeps accessories and third-party devices specifically designed for it, so . . . and then you need a junction box and you can use the Schoeps cable.

Well, its going from Bobs hands into your preamp, so I'll have him make whatever kind of connector you think is the best, and then run Y-cables into the naiant tinybox, cool? Im doing this right after the holidays, so about 1 month :)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2012, 10:55:44 PM »
Well then I would say TA3M, cheap and easy to work with, available everywhere, easy to shield the chassis  :)

Is that similar to an XLR connector ???
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2012, 10:57:12 PM »
So its just a male mini-xlr connector ??? Thats all you had to say :P ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2012, 01:13:37 AM »
Jon, if i get bob to make the collette>cable and leave the other end UNTERMINATED, can u take it from there and put on the connectors i need to use a TB with it? could we do a 5pin mini xlr on the TB like darktrain is seeling or do each cable have 2 be terminated with their own connector ??
thanks fellas
Bean
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2012, 10:17:57 PM »
I loved the cable but gave decided to ditch the bodies so there for the aki2c cable is useless to me


I will say if you run an unshielded junction box and or cable junction you will risk picking up cell phone interference. 


Yep, this is not a good idea at all. That AKI in the YS was pretty, but fundamentally inferior. This cannot be argued.

For the record I was instructed to build it like that... as small of foot print as possible with no junction box, I thought it came out good.

Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2012, 08:37:06 AM »
Straight from Schoeps:

"these resistors and the capacitor are very important for the right function of the cable. Without them you will get an interference between the two channels, it may even result in a double-mono signal. We strongly recommend not to omit them."

So my interpretation is that cables without the components should not be trusted
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Offline schoepsnbox

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2012, 10:14:08 AM »
It's my understanding that followinbobs cables will have all the original schoeps components as they are in the kcy cable without the j box..unless the cables are configured for use with nbox tinybox or otherwise. 

Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2012, 10:50:20 AM »
If you join the cables electrically you will need the components at this junction and either need to use a shielded junction box or some how included them at the junction and some how protect the components and shield or you will risk running into the issue above.

If you do not electrically join the cables then their is no issue - as Jon notes.  Nbox/rbox/jklabs don't electrically join the cables so their is no issue.

The issue is if you are using a hacked KCY into a tinybox for example.

Basically any of the vark cables or other hacked Kcy's/Aki's (such as the one that just sold in the yardsale) should not be trusted until the are retrofitted to spec
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2013, 10:21:50 PM »
After months of deciding and looking, I found a real deal KCY for a more than fair price ;) No NBobs needed!!! I can't wait to get my new to me KCY Monday and my new to me KCY Littlebox sometime next week. FINALLY after 14 years of having a HQ rig, I am running 4 channel schoeps ;D I can run at two different stages at festies, and run comps at venues where ill be in just one place ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

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Re: Schoeps KCY and AKI Cables
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2013, 01:36:02 AM »
After months of deciding and looking, I found a real deal KCY for a more than fair price ;) No NBobs needed!!! I can't wait to get my new to me KCY Monday and my new to me KCY Littlebox sometime next week. FINALLY after 14 years of having a HQ rig, I am running 4 channel schoeps ;D I can run at two different stages at festies, and run comps at venues where ill be in just one place ;D

Congrats on the purchase.  I'm sure you'll be VERY happy with those.

 

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