Topic: Multitrack mixing question

[kirk97132]

I was wondering if anybody is mixing drums completely by them selves?  If so like it, hate it?  Think it helps and/or makes a difference.  Trying this out for the first time and I am not sure what I think.  I thought I liked it but I keep going back and forth on it.  Curious minds want to know....Oh and of course this is in reference to live recordings not studio.  For studio I am pretty sure that would be the way I would want to do the drum tracks.

[bombdiggity]

I was wondering if anybody is mixing drums completely by them selves?  If so like it, hate it?  Think it helps and/or makes a difference.  Trying this out for the first time and I am not sure what I think.  I thought I liked it but I keep going back and forth on it.  Curious minds want to know....Oh and of course this is in reference to live recordings not studio.  For studio I am pretty sure that would be the way I would want to do the drum tracks.

Most multitrack live settings I've seen have several mics around the kit.  Unless you can completely isolate them I'm not sure how much can be done live.  They're the loudest thing on most stages and bleed into any open mic. 

[raymonda]

My regular weekend gig has me multitrack all the live shows I do. I usually run from 8-24 tracks and when there are drums I will run between 5-8 mics on the kit. Kick, Snare, HH, OHL, OHR, FTOM,RTOML, RTOMR. Since they are the loadest you usually get a pretty clean sound, without much bleed through from other intruments. The OH is where you get bleed through if the bass or guitar is close.

So, hell ya, multi track them drums. The control you will have afterwards is worth the effort. If you don't have alot of channels to use you can get away with 3 mics; Kick, OHL, OHR or 4 mics; Kick, OHL, OHR and Snare. For 5 I add HH.

Enjoy!

[kcmule]

I was wondering if anybody is mixing drums completely by them selves?

All the time

[page]

Since they are the loadest you usually get a pretty clean sound, without much bleed through from other intruments. The OH is where you get bleed through if the bass or guitar is close.

So, hell ya, multi track them drums. The control you will have afterwards is worth the effort. If you don't have alot of channels to use you can get away with 3 mics; Kick, OHL, OHR or 4 mics; Kick, OHL, OHR and Snare. For 5 I add HH.

Solid post.

I don't have that many extra channels at my disposal, so I've been using the 3-mic routine for a bit and concur with this. It's just a question of time, equipment, and effort.

[kirk97132]

I was wondering if anybody is mixing drums completely by them selves?  If so like it, hate it?  Think it helps and/or makes a difference.  Trying this out for the first time and I am not sure what I think.  I thought I liked it but I keep going back and forth on it.  Curious minds want to know....Oh and of course this is in reference to live recordings not studio.  For studio I am pretty sure that would be the way I would want to do the drum tracks.

Most multitrack live settings I've seen have several mics around the kit.  Unless you can completely isolate them I'm not sure how much can be done live.  They're the loudest thing on most stages and bleed into any open mic.

I meant live recording not mixing for the recording live.

If it is a show I am running FOH for I use 7 to 8 mics on a kit.  Kick, snare, Hat, Rack, Floor OHX2.  If the drummer is running two rack toms then the count goes to 8.  What I seem to find is I get a more solid mix of the kit but for some reason I end up a little soft on levels.  I have also been gating rack and floor toms which really seems to sharpen things up.  Thanks for input.  Think I settle on this for awhile and then compare it to older mixes done together and see how I feel. 

[kcmule]

If it is a show I am running FOH for I use 7 to 8 mics on a kit.  Kick, snare, Hat, Rack, Floor OHX2.  If the drummer is running two rack toms then the count goes to 8.  What I seem to find is I get a more solid mix of the kit but for some reason I end up a little soft on levels.  I have also been gating rack and floor toms which really seems to sharpen things up.  Thanks for input.  Think I settle on this for awhile and then compare it to older mixes done together and see how I feel.

Sounds like standard operating procedure to me.  Gate the kick on occasion as well (depends on much ring it has)

[page]

If it is a show I am running FOH for I use 7 to 8 mics on a kit.  Kick, snare, Hat, Rack, Floor OHX2.  If the drummer is running two rack toms then the count goes to 8.  What I seem to find is I get a more solid mix of the kit but for some reason I end up a little soft on levels.  I have also been gating rack and floor toms which really seems to sharpen things up.  Thanks for input.  Think I settle on this for awhile and then compare it to older mixes done together and see how I feel.

Sounds like standard operating procedure to me.  Gate the kick on occasion as well (depends on much ring it has)

That brings up an odd question I have; how often do folks gate stuff on the drum kit, and do you typically wet the effect so that it's not a hard gate? I've only played around with it a couple of times but was curious.

[kcmule]

I think the answer to that is "it depends".   Too many factors play a role, IMO, to just say "I do it this way every time".

[page]

yeah yeah, I wouldn't expect a formula, just guidance is all.

What do you listen for when you do it, see if the soundstage changes/shifts due to bleed incorporation or do you look for other abnormalities?

[kirk97132]

Are you talking gating the recording, or gating while mixing?  For mixing recordings, I run the GVST GGate.  (http://www.gvst.co.uk/ggate.htm) It's free vst plug in and clean sounding and I really like the results I get.   I usually am running a original track and a buss or three depending on what I'm after.  I run the gate on the original track and all the buses are post fader.  Then I will toy around with it till I get a good natural sound that comes in fast and holds on long enough to let the sound decay naturally sometimes I will have to let the gate sneak open for little short burst to get what I want.  If you listen to it solo'ed those little bursts sound really weird and wrong but when mixed with the whole kit you can't even tell. For the most part I am only running a gate on the toms.  Occasionally I will gate the snare.  I will also gate the drummers vocals if he sings. 
EDITED TO ADD:
On the buss tracks I run different efx on each track and mix to taste.  I normally do not run anything nut a gate on the original track.  Then depending on my mood I may send all of those tracks to final buss for mixing.  So it could be all the kick tracks sent to a single buss and all the snare tracks sent to a single buss etc.  This is usually when I am being extra anal and willing to put in the extra work setting it up and mixing it down.  Most of the time I only do that when the mix is being used for something like a release or for video.


For mixing a show live, that is whole different ball of wax.  it would really depend on what I am trying to do an what I want the drums to sound like.  I am all over the map then from no gates to gates that really change the sound(usually because the band wants that sound)

[page]

Are you talking gating the recording, or gating while mixing?

just looking for advice on mixing in post. I rarely make adjustments in the field. Thanks for the notes.

[Church-Audio]

When I mix live in a larger show. I will use gates on kick and toms. I will leave them loose on the threshold and then start mixing. If I need to tighten things up then I will use them. I never use a gate or tape to fix a ring. Its called tuning. I simply say to a drummer at sound check " are you going to leave it like that" that usually takes care of the ring At most of the shows I was mixing there was always a drum tech and its always pretty good. I like drawmer gates or Aphex. Anything else is just a toy unless its in a digital console like a Digigo or a Midas or higher end Yamaha.. But again less is more. I like using the depth on a gate and the frequency conscious gates are also a real help. None of this should ever be committed to tape if you are recording. You want the raw tracks with out gates so you can add them later on. Its fun to have the toys but remember if the stage sound is really good so will your recording.. If its shit no amount of gates and toys will fix it. I always told bands to have a mix on stage like you would want it in a recording. If the mix is good up on stage there is NO REASON why it cant be great in the house.

Chris