Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: The old thread was locked this one will not be. Audiophile cable discussion.  (Read 13622 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Church-Audio

  • (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7571
  • Gender: Male
You know there are some great cable companies out there making great products at reasonable prices it's the snake oil companies that spoil it for everyone.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline voltronic

  • (34)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3376
You know there are some great cable companies out there making great products at reasonable prices it's the snake oil companies that spoil it for everyone.

I give equal blame to the wealthy yet guillible people who actually buy these things, otherwise said snake oil companies would be out of business.  Confirmation bias, I say.  Here's some entertaining reading, and keep in mind the prices quoted are from 2006:
http://www.stereophile.com/cables/1206tara/index.html
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
MOTU M2 ~ KRK Rokit RP5 ~ Sennheiser HD 650 ~ Etymotic ER4XR

Team Line Audio

Offline scb

  • Eli Manning should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?
  • (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8621
  • Gender: Male
I am continuing the thread that was locked out because I think its very important to show all points of view on cables. And If I can convince one person to not spend $6k on a freaking cable It will make me very happy.

Is there anyone here who is actually spending $6k on a cable?

I agree 100% and my problem is not with people that want very good quality cable in a system because that makes sense to me. but we all know you don't need to spend $1000 on a freaking speaker cable to get a good speaker cable. And for install I like the silver Teflon cable if it has a braid shield and a foil shield it can be good stuff it would not be my first choice for an unbalanced interconnect but for balanced it's good. So is star quad for balanced and Mogami wire is very good for unbalanced connections. capacitance and resistance and the quality of the shield are really important factors. as far as interconnects neutrik make good ones so does switchcraft.

Just to play devil's advocate, you just listed things you like. Why? Can you scientifically prove that these are better than others?

Offline Church-Audio

  • (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7571
  • Gender: Male
I am continuing the thread that was locked out because I think its very important to show all points of view on cables. And If I can convince one person to not spend $6k on a freaking cable It will make me very happy.

Is there anyone here who is actually spending $6k on a cable?

I agree 100% and my problem is not with people that want very good quality cable in a system because that makes sense to me. but we all know you don't need to spend $1000 on a freaking speaker cable to get a good speaker cable. And for install I like the silver Teflon cable if it has a braid shield and a foil shield it can be good stuff it would not be my first choice for an unbalanced interconnect but for balanced it's good. So is star quad for balanced and Mogami wire is very good for unbalanced connections. capacitance and resistance and the quality of the shield are really important factors. as far as interconnects neutrik make good ones so does switchcraft.

Just to play devil's advocate, you just listed things you like. Why? Can you scientifically prove that these are better than others?

Are there people who have paid $6k for a cable? I would assume so because there are no shortage of snake oil salesman selling them. So unless they never sell them and they like to keep around cables in inventory in the case that they do.. Not a very sound business practice. Or they are selling them. Whats that saying? Oh yeah a sucker born every minute comes to mind.


Can I scientifically prove that star quad is good cable sure.. The specs are available from Canare :) Can I prove mogami is good cable well the 3000 + microphones I have sold over the last 7 years tell me that. And so does the physical construction of the cable the number of strands ect. And again the tech specs are available for these cables. Unlike the special "magic cables" that dont seem to have any real specs listed.

So yeah I can prove that the cables mentioned are of high quality. And more than that so can the tens of thousands of engineers and technicians using them. They are a good quality cable. My point is that a "good" quality cable does not need to cost thousands of dollars.

My point is not directed at any one vendor but at all vendors selling cables for way more than anyone should have to pay for it. Just because they say its amazing. We all know mogami is better than radio shack for many reasons. None of them have to do with magic mojo. They have to do with quality construction and design intelligence. Not with flashy heatshrink or cheap chinese gold plated ends with fancy logos.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline ScoobieKW

  • (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1664
    • ScoobieSnax Audio Archive
I am continuing the thread that was locked out because I think its very important to show all points of view on cables. And If I can convince one person to not spend $6k on a freaking cable It will make me very happy.

Is there anyone here who is actually spending $6k on a cable?

I agree 100% and my problem is not with people that want very good quality cable in a system because that makes sense to me. but we all know you don't need to spend $1000 on a freaking speaker cable to get a good speaker cable. And for install I like the silver Teflon cable if it has a braid shield and a foil shield it can be good stuff it would not be my first choice for an unbalanced interconnect but for balanced it's good. So is star quad for balanced and Mogami wire is very good for unbalanced connections. capacitance and resistance and the quality of the shield are really important factors. as far as interconnects neutrik make good ones so does switchcraft.

Just to play devil's advocate, you just listed things you like. Why? Can you scientifically prove that these are better than others?

The science on the Canare Star Quad and Mogami cable is well documented. Read their engineering specifications. For me, the advantage between one interconnect and another comes down to physical properties. Does it make solid contact. Does it's latching system work well with other cables? How good is the strain relief?

I work for a Production company, in my repair shop, we build our XLR cables with Neutrik XLR connectors and Belden 8412 cable. The cable is almost bulletproof. Roadcase rolls over your cable run? No problem. When there is a failure it's usually a 10+ year old Switchcraft connector with a strain relief issue. The Neutrik strain relief is so well designed that I rarely see one fail.
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline scb

  • Eli Manning should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?
  • (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8621
  • Gender: Male
Are there people who have paid $6k for a cable? I would assume so because there are no shortage of snake oil salesman selling them. So unless they never sell them and they like to keep around cables in inventory in the case that they do.. Not a very sound business practice. Or they are selling them. Whats that saying? Oh yeah a sucker born every minute comes to mind.

I was saying specifically on taperssection.com.

Offline scb

  • Eli Manning should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?
  • (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8621
  • Gender: Male
Can I scientifically prove that star quad is good cable sure.. The specs are available from Canare :)

Ok. What specifically about the specs proves it's better than other cables? Also, how do these specs scientifically translate to mean "sounds better?"

Can I prove mogami is good cable well the 3000 + microphones I have sold over the last 7 years tell me that.


But that's no different then the $6k manufacturer saying "people are buying them, so they must be good"


So yeah I can prove that the cables mentioned are of high quality.

How?


Offline Church-Audio

  • (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7571
  • Gender: Male
Are there people who have paid $6k for a cable? I would assume so because there are no shortage of snake oil salesman selling them. So unless they never sell them and they like to keep around cables in inventory in the case that they do.. Not a very sound business practice. Or they are selling them. Whats that saying? Oh yeah a sucker born every minute comes to mind.

I was saying specifically on taperssection.com.
I dont know who has a 6k cable on T.S why does that matter? my hope is that other people will see this post and they will get steered away from buying a 6k cable. I think most of the people here have more common sense than God gave a goat. So they will probably stay away from 6k cables.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline Church-Audio

  • (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7571
  • Gender: Male
Can I scientifically prove that star quad is good cable sure.. The specs are available from Canare :)

Ok. What specifically about the specs proves it's better than other cables? Also, how do these specs scientifically translate to mean "sounds better?"

Can I prove mogami is good cable well the 3000 + microphones I have sold over the last 7 years tell me that.


But that's no different then the $6k manufacturer saying "people are buying them, so they must be good"


So yeah I can prove that the cables mentioned are of high quality.

How?
Really you have to even ask this question? Ok I will bite.

Mogami has been considered one of the best audio cables around for many years. Why the quality of the cable the capacitance per meter / the quality of the copper they use. The quality of the shielding the imploy. The actual design work that goes into make the cable.

My point is and I guess your not seeing it.. Is simple.. I dont believe that cables make that big of a difference once you get to a certain quality standard. So I would say mogami will be a better cable then say a radio shack cable simply because of better quality construction. Better quality materials better design. I feel that once you get to a certain level of quality you should notice very little difference between two cables constructed in a similar way with similar electrical characteristics. Unless you can find the little "happy sound atom" hidden in the magic cable that is not in the magami or Canare cable :)

For speaker cables you want lots of copper or similar metal with extremely low resistance. And a large gauge to handle the current.

For signal you want a great shield and quality parts and low capacitance and inductance. And extremely low resistance.

Thats it its not rocket science. Its plan and simple. The magic mojo people would have you believe its more complicated then that. Its simply not.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline scb

  • Eli Manning should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?
  • (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8621
  • Gender: Male
Really you have to even ask this question? Ok I will bite.

Mogami has been considered one of the best audio cables around for many years. Why the quality of the cable the capacitance per meter / the quality of the copper they use. The quality of the shielding the imploy. The actual design work that goes into make the cable.

My point is and I guess your not seeing it.. Is simple.. I dont believe that cables make that big of a difference once you get to a certain quality standard. So I would say mogami will be a better cable then say a radio shack cable simply because of better quality construction. Better quality materials better design. I feel that once you get to a certain level of quality you should notice very little difference between two cables constructed in a similar way with similar electrical characteristics. Unless you can find the little "happy sound atom" hidden in the magic cable that is not in the magami or Canare cable :)

For speaker cables you want lots of copper or similar metal with extremely low resistance. And a large gauge to handle the current.

For signal you want a great shield and quality parts and low capacitance and inductance. And extremely low resistance.

Thats it its not rocket science. Its plan and simple. The magic mojo people would have you believe its more complicated then that. Its simply not.

I'm not trying to argue with you or anyone. I'm just saying that for all the "specs" you want to know from the expensive cable companies to "prove" their stuff sounds better, I haven't seen you or anyone else post any specs proving why what you claim are good cables are scientifically better than cheaper cables.

If you ask for specs, I am curious what specs you want and how you use these specs to "prove" one "sounds" better than another

Offline TimSmith

  • (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 148
  • Gender: Male
LOL at people spending 600+ on the "Magic" USB cable. I thought that USB 2.0 and on was pretty much universal, the cable either connects and works or it doesn't. They spend that and it works the same as the free one did that came with my recorder... Is the sound quality going to be magically better because you transfer it with this cable?

Yes, you can save a lot of money! $150 for mics + $600 for USB cable = Schoeps quality.  8)
I know, I know.... My english...

CA-14 (card or omni) -> CA-UGLY-BB or CA-9200 -> Sony PCM-M10

Offline Church-Audio

  • (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7571
  • Gender: Male
Really you have to even ask this question? Ok I will bite.

Mogami has been considered one of the best audio cables around for many years. Why the quality of the cable the capacitance per meter / the quality of the copper they use. The quality of the shielding the imploy. The actual design work that goes into make the cable.

My point is and I guess your not seeing it.. Is simple.. I dont believe that cables make that big of a difference once you get to a certain quality standard. So I would say mogami will be a better cable then say a radio shack cable simply because of better quality construction. Better quality materials better design. I feel that once you get to a certain level of quality you should notice very little difference between two cables constructed in a similar way with similar electrical characteristics. Unless you can find the little "happy sound atom" hidden in the magic cable that is not in the magami or Canare cable :)

For speaker cables you want lots of copper or similar metal with extremely low resistance. And a large gauge to handle the current.

For signal you want a great shield and quality parts and low capacitance and inductance. And extremely low resistance.

Thats it its not rocket science. Its plan and simple. The magic mojo people would have you believe its more complicated then that. Its simply not.

I'm not trying to argue with you or anyone. I'm just saying that for all the "specs" you want to know from the expensive cable companies to "prove" their stuff sounds better, I haven't seen you or anyone else post any specs proving why what you claim are good cables are scientifically better than cheaper cables.

If you ask for specs, I am curious what specs you want and how you use these specs to "prove" one "sounds" better than another
I dont think one quality cable sounds better than another quality cable. Actually I guess thats where we differ. So thats why I feel its not necessary to spend so much money on cables. Cheaper cables have issues with reliability thats a proven fact. They also tend to have less conductor in the shield to shield out RF thats a well known fact. Cheaper cables also have issues with microphonics ( in unbalanced low signal applications ) Thats also a well documented fact. So if we just look at the quality of the construction the names I mention are much better than cheaper cables. The quality of the jacket material for example is something you can see with your own eyes.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline scb

  • Eli Manning should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?
  • (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8621
  • Gender: Male
I dont think one quality cable sounds better than another quality cable. Actually I guess thats where we differ.

Huh?

So thats why I feel its not necessary to spend so much money on cables. Cheaper cables have issues with reliability thats a proven fact. They also tend to have less conductor in the shield to shield out RF thats a well known fact. Cheaper cables also have issues with microphonics ( in unbalanced low signal applications ) Thats also a well documented fact. So if we just look at the quality of the construction the names I mention are much better than cheaper cables. The quality of the jacket material for example is something you can see with your own eyes.

Again, I have not said anything in this thread about spending money on cables. I just asked you to scientifically say why the cables you say are "cheaper" aren't as good. Are there specs stating that one has "less conductor" or "less shield?" Are there specs that prove these cables have issues with micophones in unbalanced low signal applications? What specifically about the "quality of the construction" of the names you mentioned makes them scientifically better than the "cheaper cables?" You mention "proven facts." What are these?

That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to argue that ridiculously priced cables sound better. I'm just saying that you and others were very quick to say "prove it," and then said your cables from "brand [insert whatever brand here]" were just as good, or "good enough" when compared to cheaper options. So if you want someone to prove that the more expensive cables are better, I'm just curious if you can prove your statements.


Offline ScoobieKW

  • (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1664
    • ScoobieSnax Audio Archive
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline Church-Audio

  • (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7571
  • Gender: Male
I dont think one quality cable sounds better than another quality cable. Actually I guess thats where we differ.

Huh?

So thats why I feel its not necessary to spend so much money on cables. Cheaper cables have issues with reliability thats a proven fact. They also tend to have less conductor in the shield to shield out RF thats a well known fact. Cheaper cables also have issues with microphonics ( in unbalanced low signal applications ) Thats also a well documented fact. So if we just look at the quality of the construction the names I mention are much better than cheaper cables. The quality of the jacket material for example is something you can see with your own eyes.

Again, I have not said anything in this thread about spending money on cables. I just asked you to scientifically say why the cables you say are "cheaper" aren't as good. Are there specs stating that one has "less conductor" or "less shield?" Are there specs that prove these cables have issues with micophones in unbalanced low signal applications? What specifically about the "quality of the construction" of the names you mentioned makes them scientifically better than the "cheaper cables?" You mention "proven facts." What are these?

That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to argue that ridiculously priced cables sound better. I'm just saying that you and others were very quick to say "prove it," and then said your cables from "brand [insert whatever brand here]" were just as good, or "good enough" when compared to cheaper options. So if you want someone to prove that the more expensive cables are better, I'm just curious if you can prove your statements.
Can I prove my statement? Well let me see yeah from personal experience. I can say that cheaper cables tend to not be reliable. No science there. I can say that you don't have to spend lots of money to get good cables. The specs of the cables are listed on the websites for the respective brands I have mentioned. I dont feel like educating you on why I consider these cables to be of good quality. I just know they are from years of using them in the field and in real world conditions. I have vast experience with cables and connecting equipment both in a live audio setting and in the studio. I have rewired 100's of sound systems and atleast 20 recording studios in the 20 + years as a sound engineer. You are totally missing my point. I will reiterate it again. YOU DONT HAVE TO SPEND A TON OF CASH to get good quality cables. I dont know what the argument is.

And I have said it before and I will say it again.. I don't think there is a difference between one quality cable and another. If both cables have the same electrical properties and construction. I dont know what you don't understand about that. Again nothing personal but you just seem to be looking for an argument. And to be honest I am a very busy guy. I started this thread because I dont believe you need to spend mega bucks on cables and nobody has ever been able to demonstrate the differences between these high end cables and the brands I have mentioned. And you know why? because there is NO difference.

As long as the cable is of a good design using good materials it will allow for the signal to flow. Now you want to talk about what power amp sounds best or what preamp sounds best or what speakers sound best well thats a totally different issue. But good wire / cable is GOOD wire / cable :) The snake oil guys would have you believe otherwise.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.057 seconds with 38 queries.
© 2002-2021 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF