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Author Topic: Pioneer PL 10 project  (Read 8131 times)

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Offline raymonda

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014, 11:54:52 PM »
Okay, okay, I know I've posted enough pictures but these are of the final project....well 99%........but I'll stop here.

Beyond this, the sound is really impressive for what it started life as. Adding mass, dampinging, new parts and wiring sure pushed this project forward sonically. I might have to give it a spin with a bit nicer cartridge and see what it can further do. But, as it stands, it is what it is........a hot rodded Pl 10 that does not embarass its self at all.

Anyway, I'll listen to it for a month or so, I want to break the cartridge in. Reports say that after 50 hours the M97 really opens up. Right not I am please the wat it sounds. The rest will be bonus. After that 'll probably sell it. Anyone one in upsate NY interested give me a yell. I don't think I'm into mailing it.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 06:37:01 PM by raymonda »

Offline raymonda

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2014, 01:40:06 AM »
Just a quick update. I've undertaken another project so this got pushed to the side for a bit, but, now that I'm almost finished with mod'ing the other table I've been comparing them using the same cartridge, the Shure 97, as well as both against my wtrp/benz glider/ruby. Of course, the wtrp is my reference. First off, neither of the two project tables are going to sound as good as my wtrp, however, I can use the wtrp as a point of reference. Also, the two project tables really have afforded me an opportunity to better evaluate the Shure 97.

As for the 97...... it does some nice things and coupled with the pl10 sounds very good. There is a good synergy between the two. It has enough bottom end weight to keep you engaged. The high end gives enough air to the crash, ride and high hat to pass as real and the mid-range allows vocals to cut through. The sound stage width is moderate, with some depth, too. The cartridge is not going to assault your ears. Where it suffers is with vocal sibilance.  It can have some difficulties in this area, which may be due to a 2k boost it seems to have, which of course helps with putting the vocals up front a bit. I've tried everything to tame it but it is there on both tables. It also is not as refined as more expensive cartridges or MC's in general. But for $75 it is a great deal and as I said, mates well with the pl10.

Now for the pl10. Compared with my most recent project I'm liking the sound of the pl10 with the 97 more. It has better lows...."deeper and more defined"..... cleaner highs and a more organic and rounded sound. It sounds more like real music than my new project. However, this could be more of a synergy between table and cartridge than table vs table.

That being said, I have a Denon 110 coming and this should give me a better idea of which table sings better. I owned a 160 in the past and always liked it. Well, those have been dc'ed and all that remains are the 110's. They are suppose to sound close, if not the same. The 110 has a straight cantilever while the 160's was tapered. Finally, this will also give me the opportunity to see how much the pl10 can deliver with a MC. I'm hoping it takes it a step closer to the wtrp benz. What I am aiming for is trying to create champagne on a beer budget. So far the pl10 is stepping up. One caveat is that with the 97 it does produce some motor rumble at loud volumes, which is not a problem at low or moderate but certainly there between tracks at head banging volume. I have bought two in line, subsonic filters from D.B., which should take care of this small issue. I'll report on how well these work after receiving them.

I can't express enough how surprised I am with the pl10's presentation so far. The arm looks too simple and cheap to deliver as well as it does. Compared to the arm on my newest project it should not sound as good, but it does and with the 97 it sounds better.

I'll let you know what the newest project is after I'm done with tweaking it and getting the most out of it. If it falls short after the 110 shoot out I still have a couple of more tweaks for it. Mainly, it would be removing the transformer from the plinth and placing it in a stand alone project box. I did this to a Dual CS5000 I owned and it made a big improvement.

Anyway, if anyone cares, I'll report back after I've installed the 110 and have put in more listening hours.

Also, I put the finishing touches on the PL10's appearance, which I'll save for "yard sale" since I've posted too many pictures here already, if and when I decide to sell it. The bottom line is that it looks really great.

Ray
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 10:05:59 AM by raymonda »

Offline nickgregory

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2014, 11:14:17 AM »
really is a gorgeous table...have me halfway thinking of making an offer (though I need another table like I need a well...you know...)

Offline raymonda

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2014, 08:19:29 PM »
everything has a price but at this time I'm having too much fun with it. I would be reluctant to mail it if and when I do sell it. So, it would probably have to go to somebody who lives in upstate New York. Until then though, I'll keep tweaking it tell I'm happy.I would probably let it go for about what I have into it. Which believe it or not, is not a lot. The biggest price is actually the cartridge and the clamp. However, the table could be sold without both 4 about half price. Enough with that, when I'm ready to sell i will post it in the yard sale.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 08:21:03 PM by raymonda »

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2014, 10:26:53 PM »
Is there anything worth seeing underneath/inside the PL10 that you modded?

Offline raymonda

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2014, 12:03:29 AM »
Sure. The bracing, damping and rewiring. This is not a complex table but a shot of the inside is worth it. I'll try to get on posted in the next 24, or so. Btw, I got the SS filters today and it seems to reduce some motor rumble. At least with headphones on, however I'll have to give it a listen over speakers tomorrow.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 03:15:21 PM by raymonda »

Offline raymonda

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2014, 03:18:37 PM »
BTW, I forgot to add that a few days back I ordered a ceramic bearing to replace the steel one in the spindle. A bit over overboard but relatively inexpensive. Let see how it works!

Offline raymonda

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2014, 04:26:09 PM »
Okay , this is definitely going up on the yard sale within the next 24 hours. Another project is coming this week and I need to free up some cash. I thought I'd give followers here a heads up first. I would like to sell without clamp and cartridge. The cherry headshell would go with it. I think I have about 150 into it. I'll post finished pics when I throw it into the ys.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2014, 09:34:17 PM »
How did you learn how to do all these mods?  I happen to have a PL-10.  Never occurred to me to mod it. 

Offline raymonda

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2014, 11:25:09 PM »
There is not anything very complicated going on here. The pl10 is as basic as they come.  There is a motor, plinth, platter and tonearm. All made to a affordable price point, so, the mods are inexpensive things that push the performance upward. Shrink tubing on a tonearm is something that audioquest did on their jelco arms back in the day. Stiffing up the plinth and adding mass and damping helps with resonance and putting in quality rca 's and wires is simple. Routing wires and isolating them from emi interference is learned. However most of what was done was swap out compromised parts and replacing them with parts of higher quality.

Tweak your pl10. You'll be happy.  The sonic improvement is significant. It is amazing what can come out of this box.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 11:27:56 PM by raymonda »

Offline raymonda

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2014, 11:31:22 PM »
How did you learn how to do all these mods?  I happen to have a PL-10.  Never occurred to me to mod it.

It always occurs to me how to improve anything I own. I was born a tweakster.

Offline twatts (pants are so over-rated...)

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Re: Pioneer PL 10 project
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2014, 11:35:11 PM »
I'll probably sell it. Anyone one in upsate NY interested give me a yell. I don't think I'm into mailing it.

Let me know!  I have an Uncle in Albany that would love it...  And if not, he should buy it for me for Christmas next year!  LOL!

Beautiful beautiful beautiful work!   I'm stunned frankly at home great the new deck looks!  Props!

Terry

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