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Author Topic: Attenuating cable, confused  (Read 5084 times)

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Offline willndmb

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Attenuating cable, confused
« on: February 13, 2014, 02:47:13 PM »
I have a microphone madness -20db attenuating cable which I use to go from line out > mic in on a camcorder.
My old camcorder, zr800 it worked great and was a must in order to get good audio. The zr800 didn't have an on screen meter though so I do not know how high the levels where, I just know that I had to use the cable to get good sound.

My new camera is a r300 and has an on screen meter.
If I use the cable the meter shows peaks around -3 and I get good sound
In HOME Tests, if I don't use the cable it still peaks at -3.
If I switch the out from line to headphone then the meter will show a huge drop as expected.

So I am confused, shouldn't I see a drop on the meter when running line out as well?
Since I am not seeing a drop, do you think I can leavel the cable out and get good sound?
I am assuming he cable isn't broke since I see a drop on headphone out

Any advice is appreciated, tia
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 10:00:05 AM »
If you provide high enough a sound pressure level, you can drive the input to -3 no matter how much you attenuate the input source. It'll just take a lower SPL without the attenuating cable.
Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

Offline willndmb

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 03:03:31 PM »
If you provide high enough a sound pressure level, you can drive the input to -3 no matter how much you attenuate the input source. It'll just take a lower SPL without the attenuating cable.
so If I understand you right, the cable is working in the line out it just isn't showing as much on the meter because the spl is higher vs headphones (and at a volume much lower overall)
And I should keep it in my Cable chain to play it safe
Tia
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 06:00:35 PM »
I had a situation where the SBD evidently brickwalled my camera audio, but didn't show up in the meters. I don't think these cameras can handle much overload. 

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 09:39:32 PM »
so If I understand you right, the cable is working in the line out it just isn't showing as much on the meter because the spl is higher vs headphones (and at a volume much lower overall)
And I should keep it in my Cable chain to play it safe

If you've been brickwalling (overloading) during recording then you should use the attenuator cable. If not, you should delete it from your signal chain.
Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

Offline willndmb

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 01:02:08 AM »
so If I understand you right, the cable is working in the line out it just isn't showing as much on the meter because the spl is higher vs headphones (and at a volume much lower overall)
And I should keep it in my Cable chain to play it safe

If you've been brickwalling (overloading) during recording then you should use the attenuator cable. If not, you should delete it from your signal chain.
it isnt brickwalling in home tests which is playing a recording on the m10 headphone/line out
I have to recorded an actual show without the cable
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 01:12:36 AM »
In your home tests it's unlikely that you're able to reproduce the sound pressure levels that cause the brickwalling.
Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2014, 06:27:33 PM »
I'm not sure about willndmb's camcorder, but I noticed that my Canon HF M500 will display the audio meter even when the auto gain is set on the camera.  It's possible that the automatic gain is holding the peaks to -3.  I have to set my entire camera to manual to be able to manually adjust the audio gain.  Could be different on other models.

Now I have a question why the MM attenuation cable and the Sescom cables are priced at $25-$60 when a simple in line volume adjusting cable is about $5.00?  Wouldn't the in line volume cable work as well?  If not, please explain.  http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/35-4180


Offline willndmb

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 10:01:34 PM »
Well I am not sure why I don't see a drop when sending the signal via line out
But if I send the signal via headphone you clearly see it
Same going with the dr-60d, if I send the signal line out you don't see a drop on the meter but camera out you do
As long as it sounds good in the end I don't care
As for an adjustable cable, if you have a meter that will show accurately then you can prob use that just fine but when I got the mm Cale I had no meter and I needed to know the signal was being knocked down enought to work so it was my only choice
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 11:08:39 PM »
I didn't try the line out on the 60d-only the camera out.  I'm ignorantly guessing the presence of the rotary dial on the camera out of the 60d knocks the outgoing signal down whereas the line out may be more of a straight feed? 

adrianf74

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 11:14:09 PM »
I didn't try the line out on the 60d-only the camera out.  I'm ignorantly guessing the presence of the rotary dial on the camera out of the 60d knocks the outgoing signal down whereas the line out may be more of a straight feed?

Line out is a line feed so it's at a fixed level at all times.  So, to answer your question, yes.  :)

Offline willndmb

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Re: Attenuating cable, confused
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2014, 08:08:35 AM »
I didn't try the line out on the 60d-only the camera out.  I'm ignorantly guessing the presence of the rotary dial on the camera out of the 60d knocks the outgoing signal down whereas the line out may be more of a straight feed?

Line out is a line feed so it's at a fixed level at all times.  So, to answer your question, yes.  :)
well on the dr-60 both are adjustable
The camera out at max/10 is -30dbv and line out is +10dbv
They both have a 20dbv adjustable level so the starting values are -50 and -10
So ultimatly both knobs are adding "gain" and each number you go up adds 2dbv
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

 

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