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Author Topic: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1  (Read 10723 times)

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Offline voltronic

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2015, 12:34:37 PM »
Thank you everyone for your advice.

Here is a FLAC sample of the second song of the night.
Screams at the beginning and end.

https://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/kO%2BzvX0CMs4psvg3xV1KlA

I can post a sample of a tune where the woman is screaming every 30 seconds if anyone is interested.

Here is lineage of my recording: Soundman OKM II Rock Binaural Omnidirectional Microphone - > A3 Adapter preamp -> Sony PCM-M10 (Line In) -> 24/96 WAV

I gave it a shot - the thing that worked best in Audacity for me was to use the Compressor with a threshold of -24, leave the other settings default, and disable make-up gain.  The screaming banshee is at least then no louder than the surrounding music.

I don't know if this recording is worth saving though, but that's no fault of yours.  The PA is so horribly over-driven - bass and kick drum are clipping it all over the place.  I've been to too many concerts like this recently - it really grinds my gears when FOH engineers can't do their job correctly.  You can make it loud within reason without ruining things.  Grr. >:(
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
MOTU M2 ~ KRK Rokit RP5 ~ Sennheiser HD 650 ~ Etymotic ER4XR

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Offline rockphantom

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2015, 01:18:36 PM »
Thank you for the information voltronic.

Which Audacity settings to you recommend for the normalization of the recording?
Deck: Sony PCM-M10 Preamp: Church Audio Ugly 2 Mics: CA-11 Cardioids,CA-14 Cardioids
FS: Soundman OKMII Rock Binaural FS: CA-14 Omnis.

Offline rockphantom

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2015, 03:00:02 PM »
One of my closest trading contacts who has been editing audience recordings for years, played with the sample and recommended that I try these settings to emphasize the music over the banshee screams.

1) left channel = hard limiting -17db
2) right channel = hard imitng -13db
3) normalizing = -0.05db

I should mention that he uses Abode Audition exclusively.
I can't find an equivalent for Audition's Hard Limiter in Audacity's Effect list.
I'd appreciate it if someone would give me direction.

Thank You!
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 03:02:29 PM by rockphantom »
Deck: Sony PCM-M10 Preamp: Church Audio Ugly 2 Mics: CA-11 Cardioids,CA-14 Cardioids
FS: Soundman OKMII Rock Binaural FS: CA-14 Omnis.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2015, 04:43:12 PM »
I played around with your file a bit more.  Try this:

1. Select the whole thing, and open the Hard Limiter module.
2. Set your dB limit to -24, Wet level 1.0, Residue level 0.2.  (Note - the dB limit takes a bit of trial and error to make sure your limiting what you want but not harming the music.  Residue level controls how "hard" (low number) or "soft" (high number) the limiter is.  See the quote from the manual below for more info.)
3. Hit OK to accept the changes.
4. Again make sure everything is selected, then go to Effect > Normalize.  First two boxes are checked; third is not.  Set your max level.  I leave this at -0.2 dB though if you're going to do additional effects or processing some would prefer lower.

Banshee lady should now be about equal in level to the highest peaks in the music.  To reduce her any more, you'd probably need to split to two mono tracks and try further limiting on the left channel, as that appears where she's hanging out most of the time.

From the Audacity manual pages:
Quote
==dB limit==
The level above which the input signal is processed. If the Wet level and Residue level settings are left at default, the peak level of the result will be clipped down to this level.

==Wet level==
The amount of the clipped signal that is fed to the output. It thus acts as a volume control for audio below the dB limit. If left at default level of 1.0, all sounds below the dB limit are fed to the output. At settings below 1.0, the volume of the result will be reduced.

==Residue level==
This allows a proportion of the signal that has been removed by clipping to be added back to the output. By default the value is 0.0 and so all of the clipped signal is discarded. By raising this level, some of the clipped signal will be restored, making the limit softer. More peaks and troughs of the original waveform will be retained, and the resultant volume level will be higher than that set in the dB limit.
{{Note|'''Special effect:''' If you turn the Residue level full up to 1.0 and the Wet level full down to 0.0, you will hear only the pieces of waveform that are above the dB limit you choose.}}
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
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Offline rockphantom

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2015, 06:26:22 PM »

Thank you again, Voltronic.

Unfortunately, my installation of Audacity 2.1.1 does not include the hard_limiter_1413.dll plugin.
I've searched and can't find it online. :(

From what I've read, it's been replaced by a new effect called "Limiter".

http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=86465

Could someone please share the hard_limiter_1413.dll plugin with me?

Once I obtain the original Hard Limiter plugin I'll apply the  settings recommended by Voltronic to the entire recording and report my findings.

Thank You!




Deck: Sony PCM-M10 Preamp: Church Audio Ugly 2 Mics: CA-11 Cardioids,CA-14 Cardioids
FS: Soundman OKMII Rock Binaural FS: CA-14 Omnis.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2015, 06:44:09 PM »

Thank you again, Voltronic.

Unfortunately, my installation of Audacity 2.1.1 does not include the hard_limiter_1413.dll plugin.
I've searched and can't find it online. :(

From what I've read, it's been replaced by a new effect called "Limiter".

http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=86465

Could someone please share the hard_limiter_1413.dll plugin with me?

Once I obtain the original Hard Limiter plugin I'll apply the  settings recommended by Voltronic to the entire recording and report my findings.

Thank You!

I just checked and I'm running version 2.0.2.  I didn't realize they had removed / replaced it.  The new Limiter may work better for what you're doing, but I've never used it as I don't have that version.

Anyway, the DLL from my installation is here.  Put it in your Plugins folder and you should be set to go.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 09:23:24 PM by voltronic »
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
MOTU M2 ~ KRK Rokit RP5 ~ Sennheiser HD 650 ~ Etymotic ER4XR

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Offline rockphantom

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2015, 06:50:46 PM »

Thank you voltronic.
Unfortunately, the Justbeamit link for the hard limiter doesn't point to the file.
A typo perhaps?
Deck: Sony PCM-M10 Preamp: Church Audio Ugly 2 Mics: CA-11 Cardioids,CA-14 Cardioids
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Offline hoserama

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2015, 09:09:00 PM »
I generally hate doing any dynamics based solutions for crowd noise, as you're apt to get a lot of side effects with the rest of the recording.

I played with the beginning of your clip in Izotope RX3 and did spectral repair work. Also used the declicker with dialed in settings to take out those immediate claps.

I find the spectral repair is a much better solution...but is considerably more labor intensive.

Give it a listen:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/w3b1te
Audio: Countryman B3 + AT853(hypers/cards/subcards) + SBD feeds
Wireless Receivers: Lots of those
Antennas: Lots of those
Cables: Lots of those
Recorders: Cymatic Utrack24, Cymatic LR16, RME Multiface, Zoom F8, (3) Tascam 680, (2) Tascam 2D, Zoom H6, Zoom H4n, and a graveyard of irivers/nomads/minidiscs.

Offline rockphantom

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2015, 09:21:25 PM »
I generally hate doing any dynamics based solutions for crowd noise, as you're apt to get a lot of side effects with the rest of the recording.

I played with the beginning of your clip in Izotope RX3 and did spectral repair work. Also used the declicker with dialed in settings to take out those immediate claps.

I find the spectral repair is a much better solution...but is considerably more labor intensive.

Give it a listen:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/w3b1te

Wow!!

This is a night and day difference!!
I wish I had Izotope RX3 and the skill to replicate your work over the course of the show.

I need to find a Whitesnake fanatic out there with the skills to edit out the banshee screams...

Thank you hoserama for showing me what can be done!
Deck: Sony PCM-M10 Preamp: Church Audio Ugly 2 Mics: CA-11 Cardioids,CA-14 Cardioids
FS: Soundman OKMII Rock Binaural FS: CA-14 Omnis.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2015, 09:24:25 PM »

Thank you voltronic.
Unfortunately, the Justbeamit link for the hard limiter doesn't point to the file.
A typo perhaps?

Sorry about that.  I tried a different file sharing service - and updated the link in my post - this one should work.
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
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Offline rockphantom

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2015, 09:46:19 PM »

Thank you voltronic.
Unfortunately, the Justbeamit link for the hard limiter doesn't point to the file.
A typo perhaps?

Sorry about that.  I tried a different file sharing service - and updated the link in my post - this one should work.

Thank you voltronic, I was able to download and install the hard limiter plugin.
Deck: Sony PCM-M10 Preamp: Church Audio Ugly 2 Mics: CA-11 Cardioids,CA-14 Cardioids
FS: Soundman OKMII Rock Binaural FS: CA-14 Omnis.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2015, 09:56:35 PM »
Of course it's too late for this recording, but if you find yourself next to a screamer and have the option to move, it could be a good idea to move elsewhere. 

Offline hoserama

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2015, 11:09:30 PM »
I generally hate doing any dynamics based solutions for crowd noise, as you're apt to get a lot of side effects with the rest of the recording.

I played with the beginning of your clip in Izotope RX3 and did spectral repair work. Also used the declicker with dialed in settings to take out those immediate claps.

I find the spectral repair is a much better solution...but is considerably more labor intensive.

Give it a listen:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/w3b1te

Wow!!

This is a night and day difference!!
I wish I had Izotope RX3 and the skill to replicate your work over the course of the show.

I need to find a Whitesnake fanatic out there with the skills to edit out the banshee screams...

Thank you hoserama for showing me what can be done!

I can 'lend' you a copy of RX3 if you want and give you quick crash course on it. That said, you've gotta be willing to put in the hours of work. Anyways, it's a much better pathway IMO than dynamics manipulation.
Audio: Countryman B3 + AT853(hypers/cards/subcards) + SBD feeds
Wireless Receivers: Lots of those
Antennas: Lots of those
Cables: Lots of those
Recorders: Cymatic Utrack24, Cymatic LR16, RME Multiface, Zoom F8, (3) Tascam 680, (2) Tascam 2D, Zoom H6, Zoom H4n, and a graveyard of irivers/nomads/minidiscs.

Offline rockphantom

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2015, 07:03:45 AM »
Here is a sample of the recording using the hard limiter settings that voltronic recommended.
Same track as the original sample.



https://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/j7jvveA0g4qp08FzZuWfrA
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 07:05:58 AM by rockphantom »
Deck: Sony PCM-M10 Preamp: Church Audio Ugly 2 Mics: CA-11 Cardioids,CA-14 Cardioids
FS: Soundman OKMII Rock Binaural FS: CA-14 Omnis.

Offline aaronji

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Re: Audience Noise Removal - Audacity 2.2.1
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2015, 07:16:27 AM »
Instead of applying the limiter to the whole file, I often find that it works better to zoom in a bit and limit small sections to the "local" maximum level of the music.  For some noises (such as a close clapper), I will often limit individual peaks.  Of course, this can be extremely tedious, so it depends on the nature and frequency of the noises in question...

 

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