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Author Topic: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)  (Read 59368 times)

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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #195 on: January 03, 2020, 09:51:01 AM »
Think this is going to be my next investment. Read through a lot of this thread, as well as the positive reviews online.

32 Bit Float sounds fantastic, as I like to run things a little hot. Need a new recorder upgrade for Summer Music Fests taboot.
pm me if you want the name of the place i bought it from that was under msrp. not gonna blow up their spot publicly
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #196 on: January 03, 2020, 11:53:14 AM »

In other news, the F6 has been used quite heavily the past three weeks, and is solid as a rock.  I haven't found any glitches or issues in anything, which is quite remarkable for something so new.  Zoom has been doing their homework, clearly.

Leaving 32-bit aside, how would you compare preamp quality of the F6 to that of your previous modified DR70d?
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #197 on: January 03, 2020, 09:50:46 PM »
it says it outputs 2ch mix to ios, im going to order a usb-c to lightning cable and see if it can feed an iphone a mixlr stream


hmmm, cant get the iphone to see it at all over a usb-c to lightning cable. heres the feature they claim

"USB PORT: The F6 features a USB-C connection allowing you to back up your files, live stream while recording and more. The USB port also doubles as a power port."

ive messed with all the relevant settings, dropping sample and bit rate, setting it to AIF mode, AIF with recording, loop back on, routing channels to usb, etc. 

I have a tech support email in
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 12:46:10 AM by jerryfreak »
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #198 on: January 04, 2020, 01:31:57 AM »
the only thing that gives me pause is the relatively low high input sensitivity (aka low max input level) on mic in, +4 dbU

most other pres are +10 to +20dbu on mic input

many mics can exceed +4dBu (1.2V RMS), including schoeps CMC1, DPA MMC-A,C,E, and G, etc

given the fixed input topology i was wondering if there is any practical downside to using the +24dBu "line in" for most applications (which they have acknowledged is basically just a 20 dB pad, phantom is still available on line-in

so i did two whisper tests
4011C, one channel line in, one channel mic in (then i made 2 channel files from each sample after increasing volume. all data was kept in 192/32f from recording thru volume adjustment thru these samples

fader at -60 dB on both:
mic in: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dPQbqiFQW3A8wB4-KU_GVXq45-ig3OkC/view?usp=sharing
line in: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IxRKsogP5DhJ6tOZ6q2GoyKVuHnWUI3r/view?usp=sharing

separate test with faders cranked +60 dB on each, whispering slightly quieter
mic in: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YjEABVH9s9Uk3lJeqRbIvztFTIs0cIt0/view?usp=sharing
line in: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hAn0ioZRJ0bzYxJmLz3uVF0LXMMLJTCY/view?usp=sharing

in both tests i recorded test tones with my 94/114dB calibrator (which ran upwards of +40dB over FSD at +60dB on line in - did not clip in either case

safe to say we run into the noise floor of the recorder with quiet sounds on mic in - so there is no free lunch. still this is VERY quiet and youd be hard pressed to be in a situation with so much dynamic range that you would be constrained by input noise vs overloading, it indeed does have a very wide dynamic range, i would say fundamentally close to or in excess of most microphones (which we rarely push to their 120+ dB max SPLs). at the end of the day, forget about a concert and its typical 50 dB dynamic range, a symphony *might* approach 70 dB with all those people in the room

a future test on upper SPL handling would be with the higher output 'MMP-A' bodies with higher sens caps like the 40 mv/PA 2006. those mic bodies have selectable 20 dB pads as well, so i can test the 20 dB pads in the mics vs the recorder

TLDR: its insanely quiet but there is indeed a consequence to mic vs line in, in regard to input noise, so select accordingly, as would be expected



« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 02:53:33 AM by jerryfreak »
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #199 on: January 04, 2020, 07:38:39 AM »

In other news, the F6 has been used quite heavily the past three weeks, and is solid as a rock.  I haven't found any glitches or issues in anything, which is quite remarkable for something so new.  Zoom has been doing their homework, clearly.

Leaving 32-bit aside, how would you compare preamp quality of the F6 to that of your previous modified DR70d?

The F6 is clearly in a much higher class.  The preamps are uncolored and very quiet, on par with Sound Devices equipment I have used.  My modded 70D certainly sounded very good, but I had to be careful with gain setting.  Anything past the MID gain range introduced noticeable preamp noise.
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
MOTU M2 ~ KRK Rokit RP5 ~ Sennheiser HD 650 ~ Etymotic ER4XR

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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #200 on: January 04, 2020, 10:21:37 AM »
ran a 2 channel batt test with 4 nimh AAs powering 2 channels at phantom at 32/192 - got about 7 hours, pretty impressive
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #201 on: January 04, 2020, 05:42:05 PM »
ran a 2 channel batt test with 4 nimh AAs powering 2 channels at phantom at 32/192 - got about 7 hours, pretty impressive

WOW.  What mics?  I would expect ones with very low current draw to get that figure.
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
MOTU M2 ~ KRK Rokit RP5 ~ Sennheiser HD 650 ~ Etymotic ER4XR

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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #202 on: January 04, 2020, 07:05:03 PM »
DPA MMP-C
2.8 mA draw

hell of a unit. i wish it had digi in, so i could ditch my dr100, this isnt *that* much larger for what it does
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 07:28:52 PM by jerryfreak »
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #203 on: January 05, 2020, 11:02:40 AM »

In other news, the F6 has been used quite heavily the past three weeks, and is solid as a rock.  I haven't found any glitches or issues in anything, which is quite remarkable for something so new.  Zoom has been doing their homework, clearly.

Leaving 32-bit aside, how would you compare preamp quality of the F6 to that of your previous modified DR70d?


The F6 is clearly in a much higher class.  The preamps are uncolored and very quiet, on par with Sound Devices equipment I have used.  My modded 70D certainly sounded very good, but I had to be careful with gain setting.  Anything past the MID gain range introduced noticeable preamp noise.

Thanks for that info. I hope they make a two channel version. The battery life is terrific.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2020, 07:39:05 PM »
foolishly did a battery test with only 2 channels on a 10000 mAh Anker powercore USB-C

19 hours later.....

extrapolating from my relative runtimes of 2ch vs 6ch on AAs it seems this USB battery would do 9 hrs or so with 6 channels phantom

same usb battery would run my mixpre6 for about 5 hours, considering that the mixpre6 only provides 4 channels of phantom, its fair to say that the F6 uses about half the power, more or less, in a given application

i ordered the recommended Dracast NP-F battery, 2200 mAh, $15 w/charger, pretty reasonable cost. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078NHM4CL)

AAs plus a NP-F should be more than enough for my needs

not a single glitch so far other than an unreadable file which fixed its headers automatically when i put the card back in the zoom and played it for a few seconds
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #205 on: January 06, 2020, 09:56:57 AM »
its fair to say that the F6 uses about half the power, more or less

I think that is mostly due to the different pre-amp designs. Class A pres, like in the MixPre series, are pretty inefficient.

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #206 on: January 06, 2020, 10:50:37 AM »
which type is used in the zoom?
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #207 on: January 06, 2020, 01:00:11 PM »
A friend has examined the guts of both. He said the MixPre Kashmir pres are "class A discrete" and the Zoom's are "differential IC". I can't really tell you what that means, exactly, but he also said that the downside of class A designs is that they are power hungry.

Offline EmRR

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #208 on: January 06, 2020, 01:03:43 PM »
I'm not at all sure, but I tend to think phantom power generation and distribution to mics must burn more current than any of these preamps. 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline morst

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #209 on: January 06, 2020, 05:28:22 PM »
Traditional Class-A amplifier circuits are designed by using a single signal chain, and adding DC voltage to it, so that the input signal is converted from an A/C signal, to one which is biased into variable Direct Current (DC). Once this is done, gain can be applied, and then the final output has its DC removed. Because the circuit is operational even with no input signal, this design consumes a lot of power and runs hot.


Traditional Class-B amplifier circuits are designed in a "push-pull" fashion, where two circuits are made to handle each of the positive and negative excursions of signal. Because each half of the circuit is operational only about half the time, they require less power, and they run cooler. The trade-off is that there is the potential for "switching distortion" at the zero point where one circuit must "hand off" to the other. Because the "handoff" is rarely perfect, distortion results.


Sounds like the differential IC is an Integrated Circuit with a Class-B or similar on board.

 

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