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Author Topic: MK21 vs MK22?  (Read 4580 times)

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Offline checht

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2021, 11:40:29 PM »
Exactly.

Ran 621's from 1996-2003. In the right spot, aimed well, in the right venue, with a great FOH engineer they are sublime.

Ended up not having that combo enough so switched to mk4's then mk41's, all in an attempt to find more forgiving setup that didn't pick up as much crowd crap.

Now considering adding a pair of 21's back to my kit for when I have the perfect situation.


Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6 II  or  Naiant IPA > Roland R-07
Recordings at LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Chris+Hecht%22&sort=-date

Offline JiB97

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2021, 04:02:03 PM »
To update this thread…

I ran the mk21 for nights 3 and 4 this weekend at Phish in Vegas. I was FOB, and the mics were more or less pointed at the stacks. The results from n3, which I think is a slightly cleaner tape compared to night 4, are here:

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=614316

My read is that this microphone is much more demanding with respect to being set up correctly… but when in the right spot and in the right configuration it makes absolutely sublime recordings. Realistic, not as hard edged in the treble as I’m used to it sounding, extremely accurate in the bass, and a stellar blend of band sound and the room.

If I wanted to spend less time thinking about set up, I’d get the 22. But this cap is going to demand much of me, requiring that I become a better taper. But it’ll be worth it whenever I pull a tape I’m proud of.

I remember you ran one of them but was unsure which.  Can you pm me a link to your pull from night 1?  I'd like to A:B it with my pull.  I just listened to parts of my CCM4 pull and the MS pull so I have a good idea of where the windy spots are.

I just saw this, apologies for delay. My tape is on relisten/phish in, if you want lossless PM me and I’ll upload the tape for you.

Vegas was a nice chance to hear a lot of gear, especially since we were in a very similar spot each night, and on pretty much a similar plane too with the mic bars being shared.

I linked all the sources uploaded so far in this post: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=198193.0

If I can remember I will try to update that page whenever a new source gets upped.
 
Nice to meet you, hope you made that Monday flight back to Austin without issue!
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Offline cd2go

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2021, 08:14:16 PM »
Great info and examples here, but now I’m starting to question the pair of CCM 4 I have on order  :facepalm:

Offline wforwumbo

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2021, 11:03:03 AM »
Great info and examples here, but now I’m starting to question the pair of CCM 4 I have on order  :facepalm:

Don’t question your order.

For nights 1 and 2 of Vegas, I ran the mk4 in exactly the same configuration as I ran the 21 nights 3 and 4 - 30 cm, 60 degrees. That can be found here: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=614288

I think the mk4 is a fine cap capable of stellar recordings, and I’m very happy with this tape. The mk4 is a much more forgiving cap w/r/t set up and sensitivity, and if I weren’t in a great sounding spot I’m confident it still would have made a great tape. A good way for me to word it is - I think the mk4 has a lower ceiling than the other Schoeps caps (the mk21 and mk22 sound we all lust after), but it also has possibly the highest floor of any cap. To my ear, it’s got plenty of bass, decent audience chatter rejection, a pleasant and musical treble, and the sweetest midrange of any microphone I have ever heard. It will always be the cap I reach for first, and I will always love the sound of tapes made with the mk4.

Arguably, only the 41 is a more reliable cap as far as pulling a “clean” tape, but I’ve heard many mk41/mk41v tapes that I liked but didn’t love, and I’ve never heard a mk4 tape I didn’t love.

Take it from someone who bought, sold, then bought again a pair of 4’s. Keep them, you’ll love the tapes you make with them. Add a pair of 21s or 22s to your locker down the line.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2021, 11:47:33 AM »
Great info and examples here, but now I’m starting to question the pair of CCM 4 I have on order  :facepalm:

Out of curiosity, why did you choose CCMs over one of the CMC1 options? It's nice to be able to swap out capsules, I think.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2021, 12:27:44 PM »
For nights 1 and 2 of Vegas, I ran the mk4 in exactly the same configuration as I ran the 21 nights 3 and 4 - 30 cm, 60 degrees. That can be found here: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=614288

I think the mk4 is a fine cap capable of stellar recordings, and I’m very happy with this tape. The mk4 is a much more forgiving cap w/r/t set up and sensitivity, and if I weren’t in a great sounding spot I’m confident it still would have made a great tape. A good way for me to word it is - I think the mk4 has a lower ceiling than the other Schoeps caps (the mk21 and mk22 sound we all lust after), but it also has possibly the highest floor of any cap. To my ear, it’s got plenty of bass, decent audience chatter rejection, a pleasant and musical treble, and the sweetest midrange of any microphone I have ever heard. It will always be the cap I reach for first, and I will always love the sound of tapes made with the mk4.

I was just listening to the recording linked above last night.  It's a great example of mk4 used in an optimal stereo arrangement for that room and recording position and one I believe any taper here would be proud of. I was listening specifically to provide wforwumbo personal feedback on that recording, and in addition to the well-balanced room / direct sound and stereo imaging qualities, I took note of the portrayal of the midrange in particular.  That recording is an excellent example of the right pattern used the right configuration for the situation, imho.

The optimal microphone will vary with situation (and recording approach), and the situations one finds oneself in most frequently also varies from taper to taper.  Given all that, the mk4 pattern is the most widely applicable pattern of the range, all things considered.   To me it represents a reference baseline for a straight 2-channel stereo-pair recording - the solid Goldilocks middle around which the other patterns apply in more specific ways.
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Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2021, 12:57:57 PM »
Great info and examples here, but now I’m starting to question the pair of CCM 4 I have on order  :facepalm:

Out of curiosity, why did you choose CCMs over one of the CMC1 options? It's nice to be able to swap out capsules, I think.

+1. Going with the MK4 + CMC1L saves you $55 over the CCM4, plus you get the ability to swap capsules. The modular version is only 1.5mm longer and weighs the same.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 01:08:06 PM by DavidPuddy »
mk41/mk22 > CMC1L > Mixpre 6ii

Offline checht

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2021, 02:08:03 PM »
Great info and examples here, but now I’m starting to question the pair of CCM 4 I have on order  :facepalm:

Don’t question your order.

For nights 1 and 2 of Vegas, I ran the mk4 in exactly the same configuration as I ran the 21 nights 3 and 4 - 30 cm, 60 degrees. That can be found here: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=614288

I think the mk4 is a fine cap capable of stellar recordings, and I’m very happy with this tape. The mk4 is a much more forgiving cap w/r/t set up and sensitivity, and if I weren’t in a great sounding spot I’m confident it still would have made a great tape. A good way for me to word it is - I think the mk4 has a lower ceiling than the other Schoeps caps (the mk21 and mk22 sound we all lust after), but it also has possibly the highest floor of any cap. To my ear, it’s got plenty of bass, decent audience chatter rejection, a pleasant and musical treble, and the sweetest midrange of any microphone I have ever heard. It will always be the cap I reach for first, and I will always love the sound of tapes made with the mk4.

Arguably, only the 41 is a more reliable cap as far as pulling a “clean” tape, but I’ve heard many mk41/mk41v tapes that I liked but didn’t love, and I’ve never heard a mk4 tape I didn’t love.

Take it from someone who bought, sold, then bought again a pair of 4’s. Keep them, you’ll love the tapes you make with them. Add a pair of 21s or 22s to your locker down the line.

QFT.
I've been using 41's mostly because I don't record in taping sections, and have developed an intollerance for crowd noise. Otherwise I'd stick w 4's. Soo much time spent in RX spectral repair these days...
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6 II  or  Naiant IPA > Roland R-07
Recordings at LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Chris+Hecht%22&sort=-date

Offline JiB97

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2021, 11:24:41 PM »
Great info and examples here, but now I’m starting to question the pair of CCM 4 I have on order  :facepalm:

Out of curiosity, why did you choose CCMs over one of the CMC1 options? It's nice to be able to swap out capsules, I think.

+1. Going with the MK4 + CMC1L saves you $55 over the CCM4, plus you get the ability to swap capsules. The modular version is only 1.5mm longer and weighs the same.

I didn't even know Schoeps made this type of thing, that's a great idea similar to the DPA 4023, or whatever the ID that DPA has going on with their removable capsule lemo-connector series of mics.
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Offline cd2go

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2021, 08:22:28 AM »
Out of curiosity, why did you choose CCMs over one of the CMC1 options? It's nice to be able to swap out capsules, I think.

You are not wrong, but I don’t forsee room in the budget for more than one Schoeps capsule, and for the amount and situations I record in, it’s the Goldilocks pattern for me. I have never felt the *need* for hypers, and while useful they never sound quite natural enough for me to want own a pair. I would like to add a set of omnis, but that can be done with sufficient sound quality with less costly options. I like the compactness, reliability and simplicity of the single-cap hardwired setup, I ran 4022 for 10 years and loved them for that.

But alas, the 21/22 will have to be dream mics deferred…can’t wait to play with the 4’s  :headphones:

Don’t question your order.

A good way for me to word it is - I think the mk4 has a lower ceiling than the other Schoeps caps (the mk21 and mk22 sound we all lust after), but it also has possibly the highest floor of any cap.

Thanks for the reassurance, ha. I like this analogy, good way to think about it.

Offline aaronji

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Re: MK21 vs MK22?
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2021, 12:52:58 PM »
^ Gotcha. Like I said, I was just curious. No doubt they sound great!

 

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