Topic: Soundman OKM IIr (stealth mics)

[silverbullet]

im almost sold on getting a pair of these.  the fact that they are super stealthy and fit in your ear is EXTREMELY appealing for stealth situations

http://www.outwardsound.com/

^ seems like a good US distributor.

Yeah, but they aren't very comfortable in the ears. That and you need to be careful to still hide the wires. I turn the mics so that the wire comes forward and around the ear, run the wires under my hair, a little tape just behind my head to keep the wires together and then down the back of my shirt. Also be careful not to show the red/blue color of the mics in the ears...looks less like ear plugs if two different colors are seen.

[silverbullet]

Well, I went out taping down the road from me. Just a local pop/rock band. Anyway, I taped some SP cmc-8 mics and Soundman OKMIIr to a ceiling beam center above the two speaker stacks but still very close to the stage, practically on top. With a solid beam behind the Soundman omni's I thought this would be an ideal test again for these mics. I can only tape close to the stage and omni's that can handle loud music is what I need many times in a small bar.

The SP went to my NMJ3 LINE IN with SP 9v battery box. Sounds very good but the vocal are weak because these cardiods were basically pointing toward the center of the stage and wasn't picking up much from the main speaker stacks

The Soundman omni's went to it's battery box with the bass level switch turned on as well as the -20db pad --> Line In M1 DAT. At first the results are disappointing. The vocal, drums and guitar come out fine but the bass still sounds a bit distorted. Some fluttering or vibrations introduced. This was heard through some cheap headphones, some cheap speakers, some better speakers in my car, and my computer speakers (which are very good btw). Here's the kicker... I did a digital line in to my home stereo and the recording sounds quite descent through my bose and Velodyne bass speaker. The distortion seems gone. I don't really understand it but I'm loosing faith using these Soundman Omni's at very close range to speakers now. Not sure how the results would have been if I hadn't turn on the bass roll off option; I should have at least tested that but was a bit paranoid. I can't help but think the results would only be worse though.

When I bought these Soundman mics the add said something like if you have to stick your head in a jet engine then use these mics. No way would these mics stand up to claims like this. The SP cmc-8's handled the bass better than these Soundman mics and I didn't even use a bass roll off option on the SP mics !

What are my options? Can I do something to help these Soundman omni's? Windscreen or something? Are there other omini mics that I can tape to walls and ceilings that can handle loud music at very close ranges. I prefer to tape close to decrease the amount of bar chatter. Maybe I should call Rolf about my mics.

edit-> I had my omni's space pretty far apart. About 16 inches apart. Could this be the problem? I read in another post about spacing them only 3-4 inches apart.

another edit: I discovered the rock version mics weren't sent to me. Rather I got the classic version sent to me by accident. I've upgrade to the rock version but haven't used them yet (5/3/05). I'm hoping the rock version can handle the high pressure of loud music now. time will tell

[zhianosatch]

Solution: DPA 4061s. Or 4062s if you want to record a jet engine or Manowar.
I've always thought I heard something not quite right with these Soundman mics. Also, one owner in France is convinced that the bass-handling problem is the "shittiness" of the A3 battery box....
Armen

[Sean Gallemore]

stacking with cardioids?  that's a good comparison

[firmdragon]

The Soundman omni's went to it's battery box with the bass level switch turned on as well as the -20db pad --> Line In M1 DAT. At first the results are disappointing.

thats really odd.  i've been doing the bass level switch on -20db pad -> line in M1 thing for 2+ years now.  NEVER have i had any distortion problems. i can't even get the levels to clip when the -20db pad is on, the M1 is always at 10.  the only problem is when the bass roll is on i'm cutting a little too much bass.  i'm currently trying taping w/ the bass roll off on all situations.  so far small rooms and stacks are ok.  gonna try the larger stacks now.

i dunno check the battery on the A3? is it low?

[silverbullet]

The battery in the A3 box was reading 5.9 volts, green light on.

Any comments on how far apart these mics should be from each other or does it not make any difference.

I'll do some more experimenting. If I get the same results when recording further away from the speakers then I think something might be wrong with my mics. Glad to hear firmdragon is getting good results with his Soundmans and I will look into the DPA mic recommendations.

[silverbullet]

talking about dpa and high volumes...here's something you don't see everyday ... link

[firmdragon]

well if it's between dpas and okms, i'd wouldn't think twice about choosing dpas.  their beefy price tag stops most ppl.  i run my okms usually about ear length apart.  so about this long:



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[silverbullet]

That makes sense, keeping the distance about the width of a human head since that was their primary purpose (in ears). I'll see about taping tonight if I can get to the bar early enough to set up.

I did some more testing and it does seem best for me to always keep the -20dp pad switch on. If I'm recording far enough away (outside perhaps) then perhaps I may switch the pad off. I'm still a bit indecisive about the bass roll off switch on the A3 box. Seems like I am giving up some good bass sometimes but at the risk of distortion.

I was reading some info at Soundman.de website. Seems some distortion could be caused by low battery. In my case, my battery was fine but I wonder if a 9v battery box would be better.

I was looking into the dpa mics, in particular the beige color for stealth needs. $400-500, is that per pair or just a single dpa mic? I hear that dpa's can cost as much as $1,000 ! 

[zhianosatch]

I got my pair of 4061s on sale for $625 plus the power supply. Out the door, I paid $750.

[silverbullet]

Yesterday I did another recording with these Soundman omni's taped high, center and close to the stage. Soundman>A3 box with -20db pad and bass roll off switch to 'ON'>M1 DAT. This time I only space the omnis about 3-4 inches apart and the result came out very good. I was going to kill the bass roll off option for the bands second set but the bar owner wasn't happy with the light crowd and asked the band to break down and pretty much leave before they started the second set. So it goes sometimes for stuggling local bands.



I keep meaning to take more photos but forget. I had SP CMC-8 also taped high going to the NJ3. Good vocals and drums from the cmc-8 and great bass this time from the properly spaced soundman omni's. Now I just need to blend the two recordings. Any recommendations on which (free or low cost, less than $100) software I can do this with? I haven't made a matrix yet and I really need to get off my ass and learn how.

[Brian Skalinder]

Now I just need to blend the two recordings. Any recommendations on which (free or low cost, less than $100) software I can do this with?

Freeware:  Audacity.

[silverbullet]

Wow, Audacity was quite painless and easy  I've heard of it before so I downloaded it and within a few minutes made my first matrix. I think I've finally cracked how to record in small bars filled with noisy people. Place a pair of omnis high and center and near the front if you think there will be a lot of chatter... and I place a pair of cardioids (one cardiod mic pointing at a stack and another more or less arcross the stage). I thought I would have to control each channel (L/R) gain on the cardiods but I didn't need to. Matrix the two recordings with a little tweaking with Audacity and I'm pleased with the results.

muchas gracias 

[silverbullet]

I taped an outdoor arena a couple of days ago with these mics under my shirt. Came out nicely. Probably should use a bass roll off around 70-90.

Is there first aid tape or something practical to help secure small mics on my chest?

Any previous problems I've had with these mics could have been due to a faulty SP 9v battery module which was sent back and replace with no problems from the fine people at SP.

The bass roll off on the battery box (A3 adapter) that came with these mics rolls off at 300. Too much IMO but the -20 pad is worth using.

I've also taped these up on a stadium rig with good results. Makes me want to buy a nice pair of omni mics now.

[Sean Gallemore]

get those mics up high!

get them in a hat or something