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Author Topic: Anyone heard VMPS?  (Read 10702 times)

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Offline carlbeck

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Anyone heard VMPS?
« on: May 07, 2003, 07:53:12 AM »
A few folks keep mentioning VMPS as a good choice for me but has anyone ever heard the "lower" line? I'm looking at the RM1's, the 2's look nice but a little out of my price range. The ribbon concept & deep bass sound apealing but I really don't want to pay for more shipping to return stuff ;D
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2003, 08:34:15 AM »
Carl, buddy....

I know you are concerned about your room, but I can't tell you enough how lifeless box speakers sound compared to plannars when you are listening to live recordings.

we really need to make that listening trip happen sooner than later.  those Martins and/or Maggies will smoke your brain.

I bet some MMGs, or MG12's, which are certainly small enough for your room, w/a nice sub would be very hard to beat and easily put together for $1500.  They would sound fan-freakin-tastic w/your CJ pre > DNA combo.  I can't wait to buy some and bring them to your house.
:)

Offline carlbeck

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2003, 09:55:37 AM »
That is the design concept behind the VMPS, planar/ribbon sound in a box with a fat woofer! Check them yourself, they may be what your looking for.
carl
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2003, 12:58:01 PM »
yea, I checked them out.
sorry, if it doesn't look like something Carl Sagen would be proud of, im' not interested.
:)

Offline carlbeck

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2003, 01:04:35 PM »
Nick, please don't make me buy them to prove you wrong, you know I will  ;)
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline ducati

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2003, 09:55:38 PM »
Nick, I completely disagree.  Lifeless?  In my experience, planars and statics and the like are good for jazz and vocals, but truly fall behind good cone speakers for live rock.   They get muddled, confused, and compressed.  For live shows, my CEC TL2X > dCS Delius > McCormack RLD-1 > McCormack DNA-125 > B&W N805/Velodyne rig SMOKES my friend's Wadia 850 > Bryston BP20 > Bryston 4BST > Martin Logan SL3.  They are both very different presentations on the music.

His rig is better with some vocals, chamber music, and piano (especially piano), and I *love* maggies for Jazz, but IMO anything else and I'd much rather have a set of dynamic drivers...  Believe me, his rig sounds GOOD, damn good.  And 'statics are really killer on the right recordings.  But I crave the attack, dynamics, and scale of the dynamic drivers, especially with live stuff!  Now he listens almost exclusively to female vocals and piano, so I see why he owns what he does, it excels there.

I have another friend with Music Hall CD-25 > Bryston BP60 > Martin Logan Aerius, and it's a decent little rig, but really falls behind on live shows.  Too damn polite.

Best speakers for live rock that I have heard, period, are Wilson Watt/Puppy 7's.  They reproduced a life-size musical event like I have never heard it before, except at a show  ;D

Just MHO..  I want a pair of maggies for my second rig, but that would be pretty much jazz only...  Skip the MMG's and MG12s.  Save for the 1.6's, that's where maggies start to get good...  REAL GOOD...  If you're into 50's and 60's jazz (I am!), I don't think they can be beat!

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2003, 08:06:38 AM »
well...the listening i've done lately consisted of:

Martin Logan Ascent ($3.5k) and it was so holographic, I thought I was in a star trek episode or something.

next up was the Maggies: 1.6qr, MG12 and MMG
all of those bennefited from a nice velodyne sub and the musical experience was the same for me.

I've been listening to DSM series B&W's, Sonas Faber Concherto's and Grand Pianos,  the full line of Paradigm...plus whatever Carl has at his house from one month to the next.

your descriptions of planars is what box speakers sound like to me.  I found that they were amazingly quick, unbelievably transparent and like I said, a complete 3-dimensional experience that left such an impression on me that I just can't look at box speakes.  Most especialy those ML Ascents.  The Maggie 1.6qr was also great, but as you know they are the size of a standard door and you need a big ass room to make them breath right.  I found the MG12 w/sub was just as satisfying as the 1.6qr (which also needed a sub to get down and dirty).

You show me a box speaker that comes ANYWHERE near the performance of a $550 pair of maggie MMG's with a sub.
that's approx $1200 l $1500 depending on your choice of sub.

My ear is pretty new to high-end audio, so maybe it's just my learning curve that is talking.  All I know is that I really, really like what I've heard and am definately going in that direction.

Offline ducati

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2003, 09:58:11 AM »
The Martin Logan Ascent is the new model of my friend's SL3's.  I am very familiar with them...   He has them in a 15x22 room, and they are a bit squished in there because his wife will only let them be about 2.5-3 feet from the back walls.  'Statics really need to be about 5-6 feet from the back walls; or more,  Remember, they are dipole speakers.  Since his are not placed ideally, the soundstage collapses, and the imaging is somewhat distorted.

I am not in any way saying they are bad loudspeakers.  They are absolutely fantastic when given the room, the right amplification, and the right source components; and when fed the source material they like.  Then they are among the best speakers on earth.  But "box" speakers, given the same care and feeding, can absolutely image and soundstage as well as 'statics!  With the right stuff, box speakers "disappear" into the room.  They do have different sound qualities than 'statics, but holographic imaging is not the sole realm of dipoles.

Personally, I find that I am initially quite attracted to planars and statics, but over many long listening sessions the balance starts to swing the other way and I crave the immediacy and attack of my B&Ws.  My friend and I listen to each other's rigs regularly.  For anything but vocals and piano, I prefer the B&Ws.   That's MY preference, it's obviously not his!  And to be honest, I'm a picky audiophile, always in search of the "better" sound.  Most people would be quite satisfied with either!

Not that the B&W Nautilus line (and and most other "box" speakers) doesn't have it's set of negatives; among them, they also need lots of breathing room (less than statics, tho, but even the 12 x 35 room we have them in isn't truly "enough"), and topnotch amplification and source componentry to sound good.   Without good components ahead of them, the Nautilus tweets will drill a hole in your brain.   The B&W CDM series is pretty far below the Nautilus in sound quality, BTW.  It sounds, to me, a whole lot like the older Matrix speakers.  I demoed them side by side and the CDM's were all boxy sounding.  Maybe that's what you're hearing...  If you're considering a $3500 pair of statics, make sure you audition the Nautilus line, which is much more comparable.  And the new Thiel CS 2.4's.  I am VERY impressed with them!!  Any, to be honest, would make a good choice  ;D

BTW, bring over a pair of MMG's and put them next to my N805's.  I *guarantee* you'll walk away preferring the B&Ws.  If not, I'll buy all the beer  ;D

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2003, 08:25:39 AM »
i'm sure the Nautalis's would smoke them.
but ...what do those cost?

the maggies w/a sub is HUGE for the price point.  and i'm all about price points.
:)

Offline scervin

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2003, 08:43:48 AM »
I like Maggies more so than the Logans. Ducati I'm all for the 1.6's as well. I think those are where the Maggies really begin to shine. Of course they are the only Maggies I could ever own as I think the 2.6's are nearly 7' tall :)  I'm more of a fan of box speakers because, well my wife makes me that way. Until I have my own 16' x 13' room, I'm stuck w/ boxes.  Just don't thik she would approve of changing shades in the living room 4-6' from the wall.  The N805's are very nice and I think the only others I've heard that compete well would be the JM Labs Utopia's and the Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SE's though the N805's look a little better.  Very different sounds, but I like each equally.  Saw a pair of N805's on audiogon for $1100, but I don't like buying speakers used for some reason.
   Back to the VMPS....  I've had some buddies listen to these and they are beginning to save as much as possible for the RM40's.  I don't car too much for the finish, but from what I've heard they sound great!

SC

Offline carlbeck

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2003, 08:53:07 AM »
That's the problem, all I ever hear about is the RM40's. I'm nervous to buy a smaller pair after hearing the RM40's. There seems to be a lot of hype about the 40's & a friend of a friend does have them. To purchase a different speaker in the same line after hearing the flagship doesn't seem to be a wise choice at this point for me, maybee after I hear them but not now.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline ducati

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2003, 08:56:45 AM »
But Nick, you said: "You show me a box speaker that comes ANYWHERE near the performance of a $550 pair of maggie MMG's with a sub."

;)  I gave you one box speaker, there are many others.

I understand price points, but you're all over the map, man.  Are we talking best speaker for $550 (MMG price) or $3500 (Martin Logan Ascent)??  The choices get much better, both with box and planars, when you get that high..  As SC said, there's lots of good choices, they all sound different, it's just finding the one that you like :)

SC: I really want to try the Signature 805's, I hear they are pretty much dead heat with the new Dynaudio Special 25's.  I have no way to demo either, tho, as my local shop doesn't carry Dynaudio, and they probably aren't going to order a pair of Siggy 805's.

And I'm with ya on the wife thing.  My wife just doesn't like Planars.  Back when we built our house I thought she'd go for a pair of 3.6's, because you can get them "upholstered" to match your room.  That's very her style--matching stuff LOL.   But somehow she didn't go for that, saying they were too big, too ugly, etc.  But she likes the N802/N801's...?  Dunno, they're all equally large to me (although the bigger maggies and the like are visually taller, but take up less floor space)...
« Last Edit: May 09, 2003, 08:58:34 AM by ducati »

Offline scervin

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2003, 09:12:04 AM »
I might have it a little worse with the wife matching things.  Mine was a selection coord. for one of the largest housing compaines in the US (Centex Homes).  Now she is more marketing, but she still has that interiot dec. thing going when it comes to our place! When she starts talking more about the Corian, I'll start talking more about the Parasound Halo! :) Although I think I got her talked into getting the Grados for my b-day!
   I think if I were to ever get statics they would have to be in the form of Stax headphones!  They are mighty nice and mated with a nice sub they get the job done, but I'm still convinced you can get something that sounds as good out of a box.  Our ears are all very different and I respect that.  But, Nick know that the system you like is very good and I'm glad you feel it sounds good and you don't have to worry about WAF.  

Ducati,
    FYI, I know your not a fan of the internet purchasing of equipment, but Mark Schifter has a project that is going to be very similar to the VMPS with ribbon tweeters and such. He has brought in all his comtacts from his Genesis days to design them.  They might compete with the Logans and VMPS.  Look up Onix Stratas.  They will be preiced in the $5k+

SC

Offline ducati

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2003, 09:30:15 AM »
My wife has the "Real Simple" look going on, LOL.  At least that's what I tell her.  She was a graphic design major in college, and has that simple-but-clean look that so many of them like.  It's a real challenge, bringing hifi into that picture, ya know?  My only saving grace is that she quite enjoys music, especially well-produced music.  We've well passed new car purchase territory with our hifi, and she still let s me add to it.  So apparently she hasn't prclaimed it "done" yet LOL.

She also has a fetish with hiding wires...  Which is why I'm relegated to stuffing everything inside a wife-approved cherry armoire (which also holds TV and 5.1 stuff!).  (this had a sonic side benefit, tho; I close the doors and turn off the lights when REALLY listening, no distractions even from front panel lights!)  I have NO idea how I talked her into the MIT MH750+ bwire speaker cables.  If you've ever seen them, the "wire" part looks like a big braided garden hose, and they terminate near the loudspeakers in a huge shoebox.  I'm still shocked she let them stay, over the clean looking Kimber that was there previously!

Anyway, I see this on AV123 website:
2 x 10" accelerometer controlled aluminum woofers in an unique compression enclosure system. Powered by an internal 1000w with parametric EQ.
2 x 6.5" VIFA midbass couplers in a dipolar array
1 x 28" BG Ribbon Midrange
4 x Tweeters - Three in the front and one rear-firing
~55" Tall
~140lbs each
$6500/pr with special introductory pricing set for $5000 to $5500 dollars
Late 2003

Very uncomventional design, to say the least.  Midbass dipolar array?  Rear firing tweet?  Hmmmmn, wild.  That must be one helluva crossover in there.  How do you time align a rear firing driver??  As one hifi friend said to me years ago: "crossover design separates the men from the boys."  I'd love to hear this unconventional design.  Are you going to buy them?   ;)

Offline scervin

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Re:Anyone heard VMPS?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2003, 09:41:34 AM »
If the wife ends up getting the Corian w/ integrated sink, hardwood floor, and I win the lotto.... maybe.  I've got a guy nearby that is thinking about picking them up and is driving to a theater meet in Chicago next weekend to talk with Mark about them.  I'm not sure he has Dick Pierce on this project or not, but many of us in the local area get together every now and again to wathc movies and listen to new gear and your thoughts have come up more than a couple times.  I'll be interested to hear them, thats for sure.
I'm heading over to a buddies this weekend as he just finished his theater and will listen to his new gear. He won't tell us what it is, but I know I'll be watching LOTR:EE through HTPC projected by a 9" CRT Barco. Very nice!!

SC

 

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