Topic: FR2 / PMD 670 users...speak out!

[Nick's Picks]

Hey now folks...

i'm getting ready to plunk down for one of these two units.  I know all the specs and possible modifications that are offered by the Oades.  I've got Carls' W-MOD FR2 at my disposal to play with.

I"m really wanting to hear from the Martantz PMD670 users in here.  What do you think of it?
While i'd rather have 24bit capability....I dont think it justifiies the $1,000 difference in price tag once all is said and done between these two devices.  I think 24/96 is better, no doubt.  But i'm not unhappy listening to 16bit redbook standards either.

The Marantz goes for as little as $650.  I understand that Doug recomends an upgrade that lowers the distortion levels or something, making it perform better as a PA recording device.  Given its 16bit limitations, I'm thinking I can get away with 1-2gb CF cards or just a single 5gb PCMCIA card as storage.  Bringing this up to around $800. 
It seems as though it runs for a long time on 8 AA cells, and i've got tons of 1800mAh NiMH doube As so I would be all set here.    Buying from the Oades w/whatever MOD doug has for it should still keep this in the under $900 ball park I would assume.  Anyone know better?  Anyone have one of these Oade mod PMDs ?

The FR2, modd'd would be in the $1600 range.  Plus another $250 for a pair of 5gb PCMCIA cards to allow 24bit recording...which I would do.  But for this kind of money, i"d honestly rather wait until the 722 becomes a retail reality.  Plus, I find it a little bulky.  And it would require me to carry lead around to power it.  Another big negative to me.  I would guess that it sounds superior after Doug gets his hands on those preamps, but honestly I love the sound of my mics so much that anything that offers little in the way of coloration gets my vote.

So i'm looking for opinions.  Especialy you Marantz users.  what do you think?  Ease of use?  Real life record times on its 8 AAs ?  Size, portability, rugged? 

inquiring minds want to know.

[BobW]

FR-2 good.
removeable HD good. No transfers, just swap it to DAW, via USB2.0 dock.
MOD good. (I like a T on the recording side, though I have a "W" headphone amp - a Pimeta PPA)

All IMHO, of course.

[Nick's Picks]

yea, the FR2 rocks.
Doug has offered an "O mod" for me, which is the cheapest mod of them all....some sort of overload modification.  These things brickwall stock?  Not sure what the intention of the overload mod is, but i'll have the ability to send it back for further tweaking if I buy through Doug.  So that is a good thing.  Its just more dough than I really want to spend.  Then throw in at least one 5gb PCMCIA drive ....ugh!

The Marantz has my interest more due to price and battery options.  Doug says its pale sounding comparred to the FR2 in 16bit mode.  Lots of crap circuits that the mic pre input routes through on its way to the A/D chip.  Running line in gives you a fairly direct path...and he thinks the A/D stage is pretty solid.  The mod he offers for this will make it sound the equivilant of a P1.  I need more than that though.....so thats a bummer.

[Daryan]

This past week I ran quite a bit Gefell 210->straight to the t-mod FR-2.  The sound is fantastic, and quite frankly I have never in all of my life heard a soundstage like the one I do when running mic into the fr-2.  It doesn't have the presence of the mini-mp which I enjoy, and for such reason I will keep the mini-mp as well, but the sound is just huge, detailed, slightly warm, pretty much everything I wanted and then some.  I can msn message you some tapes if tyou want to hear them.  If you have any specific questions, e-mail me at daryan.v.lenz.nv8n@statefarm.com, as I am rarely around these parts!

Daryan

[eric.B]

yea, the FR2 rocks.
Doug has offered an "O mod" for me, which is the cheapest mod of them all....some sort of overload modification.  These things brickwall stock?  Not sure what the intention of the overload mod is, but i'll have the ability to send it back for further tweaking if I buy through Doug.  So that is a good thing.  Its just more dough than I really want to spend.  Then throw in at least one 5gb PCMCIA drive ....ugh!

The Marantz has my interest more due to price and battery options.  Doug says its pale sounding comparred to the FR2 in 16bit mode.  Lots of crap circuits that the mic pre input routes through on its way to the A/D chip.  Running line in gives you a fairly direct path...and he thinks the A/D stage is pretty solid.  The mod he offers for this will make it sound the equivilant of a P1.  I need more than that though.....so thats a bummer.

I agree..  I have been running a P1's a/d stage for a while(v2>line in P1) and dont get me wrong.. it sounds "pretty good"..  but I wouldnt move up to something in the marantz price range and go solid state unless it was an improvement over the P1's a/d, which is a tad grainy, but acceptable..

[silentmark]

The Marantz has my interest more due to price and battery options.  Doug says its pale sounding comparred to the FR2 in 16bit mode.  Lots of crap circuits that the mic pre input routes through on its way to the A/D chip.  Running line in gives you a fairly direct path...and he thinks the A/D stage is pretty solid.  The mod he offers for this will make it sound the equivilant of a P1.  I need more than that though.....so thats a bummer.

Just run a pre & ad in front of it, unless you were shooting for less gear ... FWIW, I have been thinking of going the Marantz route for quite some time now, see no need to go 24 bit as I don't even own a dvd player, heh and 16 bit works for me, then again it would be even cheaper to go JB3 ... blah blah blah ...

[dnsacks]

Nick:

Nothing direct to add, but at your pricepoint why not run a modded ua5->jb3?  OR, get a pdm670 and use it un-modded behind a ua5 (or other pre/ad) solely as a digital storage device?  The BIG advantages I see with the pdm670 over the jb3 as a digital storage device are a) coax digital in and b) METERS (nice meters @ that) -- got to play with one that was patched out of my tmod ua5 at grisman -- the meters are a definite plus!

[Nick's Picks]

i went the way of the fr2.....

[Craig T]

i went the way of the fr2.....

mod?

[jpschust]

has anyone tried the fr-2 at 24/192?  is it reliable?

[Nick's Picks]

i went the way of the fr2.....

mod?

Just the O mod.  I wanted to hear it stock before contemplating the T mod.  The W mod probably wouldnt be my first choice w/my AKG c414s.  they are warm sounding on their own.

[Daryan]

The fr-2 records flawlessly at 24/192 on sd discs only!  And, not to mention that the only ones it will reliably do this on are the "industrial type" discs, which range in price from 400-1000 dollars per disc.  Likely the toshiba drives will begin to support these rates within the next year, but not until, and at this price, it just isn't really feasible at the moment for most of us.  Also, the fr-2 only supports 192 using the analog in only, not digital.  I hope this helps and if you have questions, I will try my best to answerr them.  I have a direct contact at fostex from Japan who answers all of my specifics!

Daryan

[jpschust]

growl.  the fact that it doesnt record 24/192 via an digi in bothers me.  oh well, guess it is time to wait for the 744. 

[Daryan]

Yeah, I don't really understand the innerworkings of the unit enough to explain why!  Jonny, I will shoot Doug an e-mail and try to find out for you, and more importantly, if there is a way around this.  With the t-mod, my feeling is once you got to use it, you may not care though, it really is that good!  Trust your ears...
Daryan

[jpschust]

i've got the exact sound i want right now.  i don't want any other mods, changes updates or upgrades at the moment, i just want a digi in 24/192 recording device.

[Daryan]

Well, that is certainly fair!

Daryan

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

The FR2 has only one AES/EBU input port.  You need two AES/EBU ports to transport at 192/24 in stereo.


The AES/EBU data format allows a data rate of 24/96 on 2 channels over one link.  The spec provides for 192/24 by allowing the channel encoding to specify that the second sample frame is treated as a subsequent sample of the first channel (double rate), not a seperate channel.  So AES/EBU will support only 1 channel at 24/192.  To get stereo 24/192, you need 2 AES/EBU ports with one channel marked double sample frequency left and the other marked double sample frequency right.

At least that is my understanding.

[Daryan]

Wow, great information, if I posted more I would give you a +T!  I wonder if an adapter could be made to use two aes ports and combine them into one.  You would thing with all of the technology they have these days, this standard would change as well.  What digital format allows for 24/192 over one input at curiosity?

Daryan

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I wonder if an adapter could be made to use two aes ports and combine them into one.  You would thing with all of the technology they have these days, this standard would change as well.  What digital format allows for 24/192 over one input at curiosity?

A conforming AES/EBU cable will support a certain maximum frame rate - that is the limiting factor.  The link protocol has plenty of room for expansion.  A copy of the spec is here : http://www.ebu.ch/CMSimages/en/tec_doc_t3250-2004_tcm6-12767.pdf.

Yes I suppose that you could take a pair 48k or 96k bit rate MONO AES signals and shift/interleave the subframes to stuff a two channel AES frame.  But you can't do that without actively processing the link protocol, so no passive cable would do this.  And that still won't get you a stereo 24/192 signal.

I don't know what is used to transport multi-channel 24/192 in realtime except for streaming protocols that run over LAN or firewire.

[Daryan]

Wow, I am very impressed.  I am going to sit down over a beer tonight and read through this pdf so I can learn as well.  Thanks so much for the info!

Daryan

[jpschust]

so it looks like the 744 has dual AES ins which would make stereo 24/192 possible.

[mmedley.]

I played with a PMD-670 a little bit this weekend. The guys at Sirius use them to do interviews while walking around. I did not get to use it offically for recording purposes, but seemed to be a decent unit. I tested it for playback and to also pull a sample off of it via coax and it worked beautifully. It was fairly lightweight and seemed decently sturdy. I would give it an average rating. Just my opinion though.

[marc0789]

Hey now folks...

i'm getting ready to plunk down for one of these two units.  I know all the specs and possible modifications that are offered by the Oades.  I've got Carls' W-MOD FR2 at my disposal to play with.

I"m really wanting to hear from the Martantz PMD670 users in here.  What do you think of it?
While i'd rather have 24bit capability....I dont think it justifiies the $1,000 difference in price tag once all is said and done between these two devices.  I think 24/96 is better, no doubt.  But i'm not unhappy listening to 16bit redbook standards either.

The Marantz goes for as little as $650.  I understand that Doug recomends an upgrade that lowers the distortion levels or something, making it perform better as a PA recording device.  Given its 16bit limitations, I'm thinking I can get away with 1-2gb CF cards or just a single 5gb PCMCIA card as storage.  Bringing this up to around $800. 
It seems as though it runs for a long time on 8 AA cells, and i've got tons of 1800mAh NiMH doube As so I would be all set here.    Buying from the Oades w/whatever MOD doug has for it should still keep this in the under $900 ball park I would assume.  Anyone know better?  Anyone have one of these Oade mod PMDs ?

The FR2, modd'd would be in the $1600 range.  Plus another $250 for a pair of 5gb PCMCIA cards to allow 24bit recording...which I would do.  But for this kind of money, i"d honestly rather wait until the 722 becomes a retail reality.  Plus, I find it a little bulky.  And it would require me to carry lead around to power it.  Another big negative to me.  I would guess that it sounds superior after Doug gets his hands on those preamps, but honestly I love the sound of my mics so much that anything that offers little in the way of coloration gets my vote.

So i'm looking for opinions.  Especialy you Marantz users.  what do you think?  Ease of use?  Real life record times on its 8 AAs ?  Size, portability, rugged? 

inquiring minds want to know.

Listening to an FR-2 tape for the first time, mk4>fr-2, neville bros. from telluride blues and brews, and really like the sound. To me, sounds a whole bunch like an m148, warm, but tight overall and dry in the low end. good first impression for sure, even listening to a 16bit cd.

[spcyrfc]

i run pmd670 unmodded. iit is very sensitive, but i have been pleased with the overall quality but it sucks to run @ 3 1/2.
for storage of digitial media, check out Nixvue products.  i have a 40 gig vista that i picked up on ebay, it is pocket size and very portable.  pretty nice for unloading the CF cards, which for a 2gb card costs only a little less than this 40gig vista.
the pmd670 is rugged and lightweight. 
i dig it but if anyone gets one, get it modded.
luke

[Nick's Picks]

i run pmd670 unmodded. iit is very sensitive, but i have been pleased with the overall quality but it sucks to run @ 3 1/2.
for storage of digitial media, check out Nixvue products.  i have a 40 gig vista that i picked up on ebay, it is pocket size and very portable.  pretty nice for unloading the CF cards, which for a 2gb card costs only a little less than this 40gig vista.
the pmd670 is rugged and lightweight. 
i dig it but if anyone gets one, get it modded.
luke

yea, Doug told me it was not suited for PA recording stock (neither is the FR2).  Brickwall action.

[silentmark]

i run pmd670 unmodded. iit is very sensitive, but i have been pleased with the overall quality but it sucks to run @ 3 1/2.
for storage of digitial media, check out Nixvue products.  i have a 40 gig vista that i picked up on ebay, it is pocket size and very portable.  pretty nice for unloading the CF cards, which for a 2gb card costs only a little less than this 40gig vista.
the pmd670 is rugged and lightweight. 
i dig it but if anyone gets one, get it modded.
luke

yea, Doug told me it was not suited for PA recording stock (neither is the FR2).  Brickwall action.

You don't need the mod if you are going to be running an outboard pre/AD, correct ? This is just for the internal pre I think.

spcyrfc - what do you mean it's sensitive ?

[spcyrfc]

with an outboard pre it is fine.  the internall though peaks very easily.  for examply i recorded a woodwind quintet the other day un amplified or acoustic and had to keep my levels hovering around 3 1/2 to avoid peaking.
that is why i call it sensitive.
hope that clears it up.
luke

[phrazelle]

i got a pmd670 for christmas, and took it to colorado for the keller/yonder show.  i skipped my preamp due to not having a battery pack, and it was a mono preamp (still building the rig).  i had my levels at -6 db and still distorted the hell out of the vocals.  i figure its not using a preamp that did that, but im not sure.  i took it to band practice last night and used my mono preamp and the levels peaked out if i turned the main input knob over 2.  sensitive is one word for this deck. 

oh, and if you use the phantom power on the deck, it will eat the hell out of your batteries.  8 AA's are supposed to last 6 hours, but i only got 4 out of it w/ phantom power on.

one more thing, if you use a 4 gb flash card, you can pull 6 hours of 48khz wav no problem.

anyone with one of these that has ideas on how to make the thing tame down a bit give me a shout.

[dnsacks]

You need to run an external pre (a digimodded ua5 would be ideal since you can feed the unit digitally and skip its analog stage alltogether), run attenuators (pads), or sell your stock one and get a modded one from Doug Oade (doug will only mod units he sells and can mod the analog inputs so that it will be usable for recording amplified music).

[phrazelle]

i used an external mono preamp (behringer mic100) at practice and the levels looked ok, but the distortion is through the roof.  is a better preamp and then also attenuators the next step?  there is a -20db switch on the mics, should i flip the switch?  man, this is bugging the hell out of me.

[BobW]

There's aYahoo! group called portable_tapeless_recordists that may have some info.

Why not drop by or crosspost:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Portable_Tapeless_Recordists/

[Nick's Picks]

i used an external mono preamp (behringer mic100) at practice and the levels looked ok, but the distortion is through the roof.  is a better preamp and then also attenuators the next step?  there is a -20db switch on the mics, should i flip the switch?  man, this is bugging the hell out of me.

Using a preamp in front will not help you , as the signal is still going through the analog section of these boxes..and that is what you want to avoid.
Had you used an A/D in front of it as well, and treated the unit like a DAT deck fed a digital signal, you'd be golden.

[phrazelle]

heh heh heh.....uuughhhhhh.............yeah, i had the phantom power turned on on the marantz, and i had the phantom power turned on on the preamp.......totally overloaded the mic.  after i killed he decks phantom, it worked like a beauty.  cant wait untill i have the $ for a oade ua-5 mod.....they look so sweet.  thanks people for the advice.

[BobW]

The fr-2 records flawlessly at 24/192 on sd discs only!  And, not to mention that the only ones it will reliably do this on are the "industrial type" discs, which range in price from 400-1000 dollars per disc.  Likely the toshiba drives will begin to support these rates within the next year, but not until, and at this price, it just isn't really feasible at the moment for most of us.  Also, the fr-2 only supports 192 using the analog in only, not digital.  I hope this helps and if you have questions, I will try my best to answerr them.  I have a direct contact at fostex from Japan who answers all of my specifics!

Daryan

That's Compact Flash , FWIW....

[timP]

I held/played with the marantz 670 that does 16 bit at Guitar center...
man, I would buy one in a second if it did 24 bit..
i don't stealth so size doesn't matter..
thing felt fairly sturdy and had nice meters and layout of buttons

come on 24 bit!

[spreetaper]

i got a pmd670 for christmas, and took it to colorado for the keller/yonder show.  i skipped my preamp due to not having a battery pack, and it was a mono preamp (still building the rig).  i had my levels at -6 db and still distorted the hell out of the vocals.  i figure its not using a preamp that did that, but im not sure.  i took it to band practice last night and used my mono preamp and the levels peaked out if i turned the main input knob over 2.  sensitive is one word for this deck. 

oh, and if you use the phantom power on the deck, it will eat the hell out of your batteries.  8 AA's are supposed to last 6 hours, but i only got 4 out of it w/ phantom power on.

one more thing, if you use a 4 gb flash card, you can pull 6 hours of 48khz wav no problem.

anyone with one of these that has ideas on how to make the thing tame down a bit give me a shout.

I've been using my PMD-670 since the start of 2005.. have done 3 shows.. all went perfectly..
for example just saech pmd-670 on archive

I'm running an mp-2 as my pre > line in (rca) and I am thrilled with the pmd-670...
I wouldn't even consider running mic in on this thing.. not for a second..if your not running an external pre or the device hasent been modded then u better start saving now

My D8 recently started crapping out left and right and i didnt want to spend more money to get it serviced.. so i dropped for the 670 and no regrets at all.. it takes a little time to setup but once you do its soo easy to use.. takes me 4 seconds to turn it on and start recording
now i think they will have to change it from the 2 week rule to the 2 day rule..hehe

[eric.B]

I've been using my PMD-670 since the start of 2005.. have done 3 shows.. all went perfectly..
for example just saech pmd-670 on archive

I'm running an mp-2 as my pre > line in (rca) and I am thrilled with the pmd-670...
I wouldn't even consider running mic in on this thing.. not for a second..if your not running an external pre or the device hasent been modded then u better start saving now

My D8 recently started crapping out left and right and i didnt want to spend more money to get it serviced.. so i dropped for the 670 and no regrets at all.. it takes a little time to setup but once you do its soo easy to use.. takes me 4 seconds to turn it on and start recording
now i think they will have to change it from the 2 week rule to the 2 day rule..hehe

hiya howareya..

I was wondering if you could provide some feedback pertaining to the quality of the A>D conversion in the 670 when running line level in when contrasted towards other A>D converters you have heard.

thank you in advance...

ericB

[spreetaper]

well

with my rig i have i've used the following

D8
D100
PMD-670

imo the 670 is way better than the D8 and as good if not better than the D100...

[eric.B]

well

with my rig i have i've used the following

D8
D100
PMD-670

imo the 670 is way better than the D8 and as good if not better than the D100...

very cool... thanks for the response..

[John Kelly]

I held/played with the marantz 670 that does 16 bit at Guitar center...
man, I would buy one in a second if it did 24 bit..
i don't stealth so size doesn't matter..
thing felt fairly sturdy and had nice meters and layout of buttons

come on 24 bit!

I think many of us are waiting on news of the PMD671.

[F.O.Bean]

I held/played with the marantz 670 that does 16 bit at Guitar center...
man, I would buy one in a second if it did 24 bit..
i don't stealth so size doesn't matter..
thing felt fairly sturdy and had nice meters and layout of buttons

come on 24 bit!

I think many of us are waiting on news of the PMD671.

hells yeah

keep the jb3 for 16 bit for long festies, and the 24-bit stuff for smaller shows

[John Kelly]

I held/played with the marantz 670 that does 16 bit at Guitar center...
man, I would buy one in a second if it did 24 bit..
i don't stealth so size doesn't matter..
thing felt fairly sturdy and had nice meters and layout of buttons

come on 24 bit!

I think many of us are waiting on news of the PMD671.

hells yeah

keep the jb3 for 16 bit for long festies, and the 24-bit stuff for smaller shows

You read my mind.
+

[F.O.Bean]

I held/played with the marantz 670 that does 16 bit at Guitar center...
man, I would buy one in a second if it did 24 bit..
i don't stealth so size doesn't matter..
thing felt fairly sturdy and had nice meters and layout of buttons

come on 24 bit!

I think many of us are waiting on news of the PMD671.

hells yeah

keep the jb3 for 16 bit for long festies, and the 24-bit stuff for smaller shows

You read my mind.
+

backatcha bud