Topic: what is the difference btwn the Oade t-mod and warm-mod SBM-1..?

[Brian]

that makes a lot of sense armen.  you are using the hpf to get rid of all that nasty and prevelant boomyness that's so loud at rock shows.  however because of the hpf you need to turn your overall levels up and the modsbm1 might be tweaking those high mids to the point of unpleasantness to your ears.  so i guess you could say it's your mikes + hpf + modsbm1 making that sound

[zhianosatch]

that makes a lot of sense armen.  you are using the hpf to get rid of all that nasty and prevelant boomyness that's so loud at rock shows.  however because of the hpf you need to turn your overall levels up and the modsbm1 might be tweaking those high mids to the point of unpleasantness to your ears.  so i guess you could say it's your mikes + hpf + modsbm1 making that sound

fuckin' a. i think you're right. the tapes sound like you are, anyway!
in order of contribution to the shrillness, from my experience and ears i'd rank my gear this-a-ways:

[1] HPF in MPS
[a close 2] modSBM-1
[a distant 3] DPA 4061s

whatchy'all think?

[nickgregory]

I would agree Armen, but I would also say, based on my use of the Mod SBM1 with my MGs at the louder, bassy rock shows, I would get those esses....to fix them I backed off the levels a bit, got lower levels, but none of that shrill extension type stuff

[zhianosatch]

very interesting. i've conditioned myself to push my levels to the brink, but maybe i'll try cooling them a bit next time around. i just hope i get to see another show that sounds as awesome as the scorpions did soon...

[macdaddy]

 thanks for all the responses - i appreciate the input

I would agree Armen, but I would also say, based on my use of the Mod SBM1 with my MGs at the louder, bassy rock shows, I would get those esses....to fix them I backed off the levels a bit, got lower levels, but none of that shrill extension type stuff

agreed - and that is what i do, and is the reason that i run my sh*t not nearly as hot as most folks with the sbm1 - that makes sense to me. i dont know how to explain it correctly, but intuitively i know the extra headroom helps..

i am curious what georege w might have to say on the matter...

[suntzu420]

Mike Stillman had a pair of 4061's that had the standard battery box with.  I'm fairly certain it was from DPA.  At some point he decided that most of the problems he was having with his tapes were from the battery box that he was using.  He sent his mics to Zach payne and had him create a custom battery box.  Frist show taped with the new DPA's was QOTSA 2002-09-12.  I love that tape and think it sounds great.  Now, i can't attest to the noise shaping issue with running an SBM-1 in the equation, as Mike hated the SBM-1.  Also note, that the new Battery box he is running with them roll at 85hz.  If you guys want some clips of before/after new battery box issues, please let me know and I'll try and dig some up.

Benjamin

[zhianosatch]

for the record, i am NOT using hebs! i'm using a DPA MPS-6010 with a switchable HPF of -6 db/octave, knee at 85 Hz.

[marc0789]

I would agree Armen, but I would also say, based on my use of the Mod SBM1 with my MGs at the louder, bassy rock shows, I would get those esses....to fix them I backed off the levels a bit, got lower levels, but none of that shrill extension type stuff

that's what I noticed. backing the levels off a bit seemed to take care of that.

[Tim]

for the record, i am NOT using hebs!

whatever man, you fluff Len all the time.

[jk labs]

after talking to *AlexC, part of the problem (which i am exaggerating) might be the HPF i'm using in the modded MPS...
but i know what i hear and i never heard mid-highs in my tapes as emphasized as i do with the modsbm. i'm starting to think that my problem is a combination of both the bass filter and the modsbm.
then again, the problem is only a problem at great-sounding shows, like the scorpions and the monterey bay reggaefest.
god, i'm getting so picky. i'm gonna shoot myself when i get into playback gear in the future.

Ok, I'll bite. What are those arguments beyond the phsyco-acoustic effects? Because it's fully possible to find well-founded arguments in support of just the opposite: Removing some of the low frequency energy leaves the system more robust wrt to taking good care of the higher frequencies. The upshot is less strain on power supplies, reduced loss in signal caps, less intermodulation distortion, less harmonics added etc ..   At least if you leave the gain untouched   

Jon



*Edit by Moke, to remove member name, by request

[marc0789]

why not email him and find out? I don't know why his opinion would change all that dramatically. Can you think of any other 20bit a/d dithering schemes that have come out in the last 3 years that are better? It's probable that he'll pick ANSR and maybe UV222HR over SBM now but that's 20bit apples v. 24bit oranges.

I don't think his opinion has changed. funny, apogee, in a typically high class move, cracks on the sbm process in its manual, although my understanding is that the uv22 process is not that different.

[gewwang]

After running the t-mod sbm for the past 3 months, I think the only conclusion I can make is that it has made better tapes in similar situations than the ones made with a p-mod sbm over the two years prior. For some reason the 4022>sx-m2>pmod sbm tapes were always too heavy on the low end and I found that I preferred the 4022>sx-m2>d100 over them (which I only ran when the patdown/wand process appeared tougher than normal). I never really understood why I preferred the tapes I made w/o the modsbm until Doug explained to me in an email what the p-mod was doing. (In fact, I didn't even know there were more than one line stage mod until I got his email). I think it'd be interesting to run 4022>sx-m2>wmod and 4022>sx-m2>tmod and see if there's that much of a difference. I bet the difference would be pretty big but it's hard to say until I actually try.

[macdaddy]

p-mod? what the hell is that..?

you dont still have that email do you..?

i thought all of these line-stage mods were the warm mod (except your recent t-mod)...