My system:
Philips 963sa DVD/SACD > cheap AR interconnects
Audio Experience (Y-S audio) Symphonies tube preamp > decent Monster interconnects
McCormack DNA-1 powerdrive (185wpc @ 8ohm) >
MIT Term 3 biwire speaker cables >
Martin Logan SL3 electrostats
Soon to be added:
ART DIO dac, in transit to Boulder Cables to perform the MENSA plus upgrade which is supposed to transfor this $130 DAC into a SERIOUS contender. I mean real serious. But, we'll see. I've never heard it.
Im also SUB shopping as well. Looking at the moderately priced Velodyne stuff, but would like to find a Vandersteen w2. I keep getting paradigm subs recomended to me on the newsgroup I mention below, so i'm looking into that stuff too.
fwiw...
Maggies are not electrostats. They are Plannar technology. Different, though still flat.
Electrostatic speakers need to be plugged in (AC power).
The Martin Logans are not really expensive in the world of speakers that are their peers. They are
often considered a good high end value speaker, but king of that title, IMO goes to the maggies.
As per adding a sub and the quickness of flat speakers, I have been discussing this in the rec.audio.high-end
newsgroup and have heard some interesting things. Let me cut and paste:
"Nick's Picks" nick@nospam-nickspicks.com wrote:
nousaine wrote: ... snips....
>>>> The main "matching" problem with electrostats is that the falling dynamic
>>>> capability at lower frequencies cannot keep up with a powerful subwoofer.
>
>>IOW
>
>>>> the electrostats figuratively aren't dynamically "fast" enough to kep up
>
>>with
>
>>>> the subwoofer; especially in the crossover range. This can result in
>
>>mid-bass
>
>>>> compression or too-fat bass if the subwoofer gain is increased to try to
>>>> fill-in the crossover hole.
>
Nick wrote:
>>Now, i'm no audio pro but you have just said the exact oppossite of what
>> has been explained to me.
By people who dont fully understand how this works. It IS true that people
often have better luck matching panel speakers with subwoofers that have more
nearly matched dynamic capabilities especially near the crossover frequency.
That means using a subwoofer with relatively poor dyanmic capability .....
which 'matches' it to a main speaker with that characteristic in its lower
bandwidth.
>>the problem matching subs w/ electrostats (or plannar) speakers is that
>>speakers of this type are *very fast* when comparred to moving cones and
>>coils.
This is just an Urban Myth. To maintain a given SPL at low frequencies requires
a given level of displacement. Because panel speakers have a large surface area
(an advantage) but a limited stroke they are dynamically limited at low
frequencies.
In other words they are dynamically "slow."
In physical terms a cone speaker with a much smaller surface area must move a
greater distance to maintain the same SPL but also must do so it the same
amount of time (60 times a second at 60 Hz, for example). Therefore it
literally has to be physically "faster."
So you end up w/a sluggish bass responce if not done properly.
>>this is what iv'e been told by ML recently and prior by Magneplannar
>>when I used to be a Maggie fan (still am, btw).
Actually the condition you describe is usually attributable to set-ups that
overcompensate for the mid-bass compression that comes with matching a
dynamically more capable subwoofer with a dynamically limited satellite by
setting the subwoofer level too high.
>>I dont mean to be the guy who asks for help, and then tells others the
>>way it is...I just didn't want to be spreading disinformation, or
>>following it should I be the one mistaken.
Thank you for the question. The "fast" bass Urban Myth is widely spread but
doesn't stand the test when studied with an eye to finding out what really
happens.
>>>> As a general rule, most of these issues can be resolved satisfactorily with
>>>> careful crossover/level set-up. For this reason you may wish to try for a
>>>> subwoofer model that has high-pass facility for the mainsf that's not
>
>>already
>
>>>> provided in your electronics.
>>>>
>
>>
>>It took me a long time to finaly dial in the sub I ran w/my Maggies, and
>> that came down to placement in the room above all else.
Placement is also important. But crossover/level matching is equally important.
Let me give you another example. A few years ago I built a subwoofer that would
produce 120 dB SPL < 10% distortion from 12 to 62 Hz. When matched with a
multichannel system that had very capable active 6.5-inch satellite speakers at
all channels.
What I then got was the classic mid-upper bass compression with high-output
bass material because the 6.5-inch woofers didn't have dynamic capability near
the crossover to "keep up" with the subwoofer.
The "fix" for this was an additional 10-inch powered bandpass "subwoofer" that
operates between 45 and 100 Hz for the left and right main channels. I wasn't
interested in choking-off the bass (using a limited capability subwoofer) to
get the best overall blend.
Another little trick that some might not think of was to increase the
electronic low pass frequency for the subwoofer to 120 Hz. The unit begins
rolling off acoustically around 70 Hz anyway; so a little additional output
just above the acoustical crossover frequency was helpful.
All this simply tells me that basic understanding about
dynamic-capability-matching aspects of sub/sat set-up is very useful and not
widely understood by the industry.
++++++++++++++++++++++++end of clip+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now, I dont know if I fully soaked in what was told to me, or even if I fully believe it. Afterall, this person has contradicted what Maggie and ML dealers have told me directly. Who knows....
Topic: playback systems... (Read 10990 times)