Author Topic: Universal player? (Read 6687 times)

JeffK · « **on:** January 27, 2005, 06:13:18 PM »

OK, so what's the best bang/$ universal out right now? Denon 3910? I've been reading reviews for a while, and it's tough to take anything too seriously from anonymous users. Right now, I think I'm leaning towards the 3910 or Onkyo SP-1000... but may just lower my price and grab either of the Sony offerings (555ES or 999ES). Only thing about the sony's is that there's no DVD-A.

Any other players I should be considering? SACD and Redbook being most important, followed by Video (would be nice to have DVI or HDMI), and then DVD-A.

scervin · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2005, 07:14:52 PM »

I'm following both the 3910 and SP1000 as well. I guess there is a fix for the lip sync issues on the SP1000 coming which my make that a better player. Now that the Denon hiked the price $200 makes it a harder decision. I went out and checked around the local shops to see what I could find. I was unable to find anyone running DVI or HDMI into a DLP or LCD FP! One guy was willing to grab it off the shelf and hook it up to a Runco 710, but w/o audio. The 3910 is where I think I'm headed, but need to make sure the DVI will sync up w/ my projector. It has had problems in the past. I may end up buying both if I can find a place with a good return policy. I will have one or the other in the next couple months. If I find out anything new I'll pas it aong.

SC

BobW · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2005, 12:50:08 AM »

Before sinking a lot of cash into DVDs and a players check this out - "Goodbye to DVDs".

Newer formats seem to be on the horizon and "universal" may get redefined very soon.

scervin · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2005, 07:20:19 AM »

That article does well in advertising Blu-Ray. I've been following that as well and while there may be a player by the end of this year, there will be a format war just as Beta and VHS. I think some might compare it to the SACD/DVD-A war, but I don't see either of them winning out before they are soon history. I like them both and will grab as many titles as I can before they are gone.

With these new HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players what will happen to the playback of current discs? While they are sure to play todays current DVD's will they play them as well?? Many seem to think not. Yes, Warner and Universal have contracts for the next HD format, but really how many rentals will be available in the short future?? Not many. There will be the early adopters, but it will be a long time until HD-DVD is popular enough to be carried at Blockbuster. Even today anyone getting into HD is considered an early adopter and while in school I sold one of the first HD sets 5 years ago! I've thought about all of this and I always come around to the fact that I spent good money on a DLP FP system so I best take advantage of it. To make a taping anaolgy out of it would be like running a V3 with Rat Shack mics. Yes, I can go out an grab a lesser price DVD player with DVI, but the pic won't be as good nor will the audio. This next player will take on all duties of audio and video.

I've thought plenty about it and do wonder if I should spend $700-1200 more for a good DVD player over say a Panasonic S97, but as the audio is as good as a decent CD player and I get hi-rez as well I'm probably going to jump. The video upgrade after this won't be until I can get 1080P FP and 1080P DVD and even this is a pipe dream. My guess is 720P will be the first DVD format.

SC

rocksuitcase · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2005, 05:34:01 PM »

I have a cheap Toshiba 5.1 DTS surround system. SD-KT50

I read in it's manual that it would play "certain" SACD's, but not all. I was hopng it would playback DVD-A, but it doesn't.
Is there any recomendation on a universal that also plays DVD-A, or is there any type of player that only plays DVD=A's?
Pardon my stupidity here, I still don't have a computer that burns or plays DVD's, but have been getting some DVD-A's from a friend that I can't listen to. I'm Also planning on a new computer that will burn/playback DVD's, and am assuming it will play back DVD-A with the right software.

ducati · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2005, 03:10:48 PM »

I'm struggling with this right now. Sony music is rumored to have dropped support for SACD (indeed their releases have slowed to a trickle, and the newest high-res release was KOB on DualDisc with DVD-A on it!), and DVD-A has another fight with DualDisc... Consumers don't seem to care about either. I don't think HD-DVD or Blu-Ray will be viable commercially until late 2006 or so... So what's a fella to do? I've been making do with a nice Redbook player (Rega Jupiter) which whips the Denon 2910 (I haven't heard the 3910) and any other sub $1500 player when playing Redbook vs. their high bitrate (!!) but ever since I sold my dCS DAC I *do* miss well done high bitrate... So I'm back in the market. But what to do? Go true universal, or buy a SACD/CD and deal with missing out on the good DVD-A's out there?

I decided to take a dual path... I noticed Redbook CD's are sounding better than ever right now (case in point, the Ray Charles duets CD that's everywhere, sounds GREAT!) so I'm going to investigate the current state of sub $1500 Redbook DACs. I'm also investigating the McCormack UDP-1 universal player that has received some good reviews on the audio end and isn't ridiculously priced... But it isn't the player for a videophile (if you are one), as it's decidedly *NOT* SOTA on the video end. I'll check out the new Denon 5910, but to tell you the truth I'm iffy about Denon products as I think some of the recent stuff has been stinkers... I am also auditioning the Krell SACD Standard which I have liked in the past.

I'm going to compare the universal and Krell SACD players to the DACs being fed by my Jupiter, as well as my Jupiter alone... If the redbook performance of the universals is as good as the Jupiter, I'm going to pick the one I like the best and just leap. I know the formats are going down but DAMN I'm missing out on some great music.

Tim · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2005, 04:53:23 PM »

Quote from: ducati on February 10, 2005, 03:10:48 PM

so I'm going to investigate the current state of sub $1500 Redbook DACs.

couldn't be happier with my bel canto dac 2

ducati · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2005, 06:57:47 PM »

I should revist that one. I listened to the older one back when I was auditioning and bought the dCS... What was it--Dac 1.1? It wasn't bad, pretty smooth.

I just bought one of the very different Ack! Dack! 2.0's... I've always wanted to try the 47 Labs DACs but never found a place I could home audition one. The Ack is similar in design to the Shigaraki.. With the return policy on the Ack I decided to give it a whirl. I'll let you know what I think.

Tim · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2005, 07:01:59 PM »

I owned a dac 1.1 for sometime last year, sold it in the spring. I like the dac2.0 a lot more, though it's been so long since I heard the 1.1 it would be unfair of me to try and do a direct comparison. it's a great little box that I wouldn't give up for anything... it actually does 24/192 where as the 1.1 was just 24/96. very smooth sounding unit, very well built.. I paid $800 shipped off of audiogon.

I'd definitely be interested in knowing what you think of the Ack!

scervin · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2005, 07:37:30 PM »

$3K for the UDP-1 is some coin! If looking there you should just check out the Esoteric.

If looking for a nice DAC I'd look into the Dodson 217.

Me, I'm still trying to decide between the 3910 and SP1000 and anything else that plays it all under $1600.

SC

JasonSobel · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2005, 07:51:09 AM »

Quote from: Tim on February 10, 2005, 04:53:23 PM

Quote from: ducati on February 10, 2005, 03:10:48 PM
so I'm going to investigate the current state of sub $1500 Redbook DACs.

couldn't be happier with my bel canto dac 2

and I couldn't be happier with my grace 901. I'd say it's definitely worth it to look into the 901 or the new m902 while you're checking things out

ducati · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2005, 09:18:38 AM »

Thanks for the reminder on the Grace..! I have never auditioned one.

The Ack will be here wed or Thurs, I'll definitely post my findings. It's an intriguing concept.

As for the Esoteric... That's in consideration, although I am checking out the McCormack based upon the recommendation of someone I really trust. Also, I don't like to buy my transports/players used (I've been burned on laser replacement more than once) and the cost of the Eso is a bit outside of what I want to pay for something that plays formats that very well may be sunsetting in the next few years...

The real problem is that format issue. What's going to stick around? Who knows. I don't think either DVD-A or SACD will, tho... So someone looking for a good universal right now should be evaluating and placing a heavy emphasis on CD performance; will this player satisfy you on 16/44.1 when the two hirez formats sunset? You will still have your library of SACD/DVD-A built up, so it's not like the universal will be worthless... But with new prerecorded release slowing, it's something to heavily consider.

scervin · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2005, 10:39:24 AM »

Are you getting the new ack 2.0? Hi-res options? I'll be curious to hear your thoughts.

I'm leaning more and more towards the 3910 as it has better BM and TA for SACD. I also don't want to run HDMI>DVI>M1-a into the projector. I can get the DVI>M1-a cable so I won't need to use a bunch of conversion cables. While right now I can't get a DAC I would look in the fall for a nice DAC to run the 2 channel. A friend that goes through this stuff more than some of the larger gear sluts on this board just picked up a Dodson 217 so I may be able to grab that used in time.

ducati · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2005, 10:54:06 AM »

I am indeed getting the new Ack 2.0. I got the standard-res option (I also got high output) for a few reasons:
1. I am not lacking in soundstage depth or resolution in my current system, which are the two primary benefits of the ultra-res option
2. I am *very* sensitive to high frequency details, and Chris says the ultra-res option gives you more resolution with the unfortunate tradeoff in an increase in high frequency nasties *to some ears*. My guess is I have those ears--but if I want him to add it later he will do that.
3. He has a 21-day return policy; the ultra-res option takes over 150 hours to break in and sound good. Due to the nature of the device (battery driven, needs to charge every 6-8 hrs) I would not be able to get the required break-in accomplished during the return period.

Chris was a really great guy to talk to, and he'll advise you of the proper purchase taking into account your tastes, gear, music, etc... In the end, if you want to switch, you can also send it back to him for an update. So far I'm really impressed with him and it alleviates some of the iffyness I have about buying online/sound-unheard, etc.

I'll keep everyone posted on my thought--this will be an interesting trial since I've gone from a SOTA dCS rig to a decidely non-SOTA one-box to a NOS DAC

scervin · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2005, 12:22:19 PM »

the battery is the main reason I hadn't really given it much thought. While it takes the power issue out of the system, having to plug it in all the time kinda stinks. Let us know, I'll be waiting!

SC

ducati · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2005, 09:10:45 PM »

It's such an easy setup. You leave it plugged in 24/7; with the power switch in one position it's charging, flip it the other way and it's running off battery power. Ingenious, eh?

I'll let you know first impressions next weekend.

Mojowill · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2005, 11:00:09 PM »

has anyone ever tried out the Denon 2910 it says it plays SACD & DVD A and does the up scaling too. also has a HDMI and a DVI output.

scervin · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:07:11 AM »

For the 2910 go check out avsforum.com and in the DVD&Movies you will find a 50+ page thread on it. It has the FL2310 macroblocking issue and some have commented on a green push in the blacks. Maybe firmware has corrected this. The 3910 and 2910 are very much the same in the video section, but the audio is much better in the 3910. Have not read the entire thread, but may as I'm beginning to rethink this type of player and want to know if it can handle all discs. I may go listen to the two this weekend. I'll let you know if I do, but I will say it is a very light player and the build quality is suspect. I'd rather have good 2 channel player and decent MC. I have many many more redbook CD's than I do SACD and DVD-A.

sc.

ducati · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:27:01 AM »

FWIW, I'm buying the McCormack. It's phenomenal. Better on CD than tha ARC CD3 which was my prior one-box benchmark (and bests my Rega Jupiter, and the Musical Fidelity A5CD I demo'd), better on SACD than the Krell SACD Standard which was my SACD benchmark. DVD-A 24/96 shows are as good as I remember them through my dCS. Nutty piece of gear for a steal of a price, especially because I can get it for about $2700

Unfortunately I won't have time to compare with the Denon 2910 and 3910 this weekend, but maybe in the future.

FWIW, the Denons have some widely accepted mods available from Walter Lieberman of Underwood Hifi (Chris Johnson of Sonic Frontiers fame does the work). The 3910 is available now, the 2910 should be soon. The McCormack player I am buying above is essentially a hyper-modded Pioneer DV47, and judging by it's sound quality the Denon mods should be a great value. So you'd have an upgrade path, so to speak, with the 2910 or 3910.

There are 3 issues with mods, tho: 1) you don't get the fancy casework and build quality of a better piece, 2) no warranty anymore from the manufacturer--this may not seem like much, but in the realm of hifi I have *never* had to pay for a warranty repair on gear I bought new, even years and years down the road. 3) resale value on modded units is tough to pin down, and usually sucks.

But if you're not a gear hound that buys and sells often, modded players can be sick values. Something to consider as the buy-in for a Denon 2910 is only about $700 IIRC.

scervin · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2005, 08:11:39 AM »

Yes, well aware of all the mods on these players, but as you mentioned warranty is then void. Kris Deering will be putting some new players to the test and results should come out shortly on the Onkyo/Integra unit. Would like to see how it stacks up against the 3910.

Can't justify the cost of the UDP-1, but wish I could!

Mic D · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2005, 10:03:52 AM »

From the reviews i've read, it seems that the Denon 2900/3910/5900 dont read DVD-R's well, at all. Anyone else heard this? This is the main reason i've been steering clear of them.

Anyone here know anything about the Jolida JD-700? I'm looking for a universal player that:

- Plays dvd-r's really well
- Sounds good as a CD transport
- Has dvd-a capability.

Any ideas?

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2005, 11:04:59 AM »

Quote from: Mic D on February 18, 2005, 10:03:52 AM

From the reviews i've read, it seems that the Denon 2900/3910/5900 dont read DVD-R's well, at all. Anyone else heard this? This is the main reason i've been steering clear of them.

I have a 2900 and have had no problems at all with DVD-Rs. I'm using Riteks - the orange ones from allmedia outlet. I run a very few assorted other discs from other people and no problem either.

Mic D · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2005, 11:20:25 AM »

Quote from: El Barto on February 18, 2005, 11:04:59 AM

Quote from: Mic D on February 18, 2005, 10:03:52 AM
From the reviews i've read, it seems that the Denon 2900/3910/5900 dont read DVD-R's well, at all. Anyone else heard this? This is the main reason i've been steering clear of them.

I have a 2900 and have had no problems at all with DVD-Rs. I'm using Riteks - the orange ones from allmedia outlet. I run a very few assorted other discs from other people and no problem either.

Thanks. How long have you owned it and how often do you play dvd-r's?

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2005, 11:44:40 AM »

Quote from: Mic D on February 18, 2005, 11:20:25 AM

Thanks. How long have you owned it and how often do you play dvd-r's?

Had it maybe 2-3 months. I play DVD-Rs 4-5 days a week now since I have been downloading 24-bit stuff.

Mic D · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2005, 12:07:47 PM »

What about DVD+R's?

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #25 on:** February 18, 2005, 12:16:54 PM »

Haven't tried any yet. The +R discs I have are video and my 2900 is in a pure 2-ch audio setup.

I'll try to remember to try that this weekend.

wboswell · « **Reply #26 on:** February 18, 2005, 01:19:43 PM »

I've had issues passing a digital signal with my 2900 when playing 24bit dvdr's burned with Discwielder. It will only play out of one channel when I use an external device to do the DAC. It plays the discs well if I use the 5.1 outputs, which, by the way, are just about as hot as the XLR outs on my da-30mkII. The 2900 will pass a digital signal with store bought dvds and dvdr's, as well as any cd I throw in it. Just can't nail down the burned dvdr's...

Author Topic: Universal player? (Read 6687 times)

BobW