Topic: My JB3 recording sounds really low, can barely hear it...

[Howid]

No problem, bro. I respect what you said and will try this during my recording, Im just sharing the email I got from the manufacturer of my mics. Dont get me wrong, Im to new to do any disagreeing, lol.

[leegeddy]

> I turned up my gain to +3dB and it got a
> little better, but I hear bad things about
> messing with the gain on a JB3.
> Have you encounterd recording volume issues with this mic and if so,
was
> there a fix?

Hello,

In a concert setting you will not need a preamp.  Crank your stereo up
to 120db, turn the levels up all the way on the NJB, and aim the mics
almost to where the speakers are at. You will get good levels.  Also, a
fresh or freshly charged 9 volt battery is needed.

> may have  to lug around a preamp now.

Not for concerts.  These days a preamp is needed when someone has a
recorder that has recording levels can't be adjusted.

Darren

huh, the contents of his response are absurd. 

marc

[The Kilted Taper]

I've used the CSSC > JB3 set-up mutliple times, with the JB3 set at +12dB. I keep hearing about these beeps every 10secs or whatever, but I have never noticed it. I don't think, in a rock setting, that it will ever get quiet enough to hear them. Don't know about quiter shows.

[Howid]

huh, the contents of his response are absurd. 

marc

Can you elaborate?

[dklein]

Karl - the hard drive noise  a.k.a. the beeping.  I know we've chatted about this but for the benefit of others, yes it exists and you're hearing it because your mics' sensitivity (output) is too low to drive proper line levels.  You are not avoiding it by keeping the JB3 gain down.  In order to get the music back to listening level you're gonna crank up the gain somewhere.  Since you are recommending not to do it in the JB3, you must either be boosting in post OR just turning up the volume knob on your playback.  In both cases, when you bring the music levels back up (by that same 12 dB or more), you will bring the hard drive noise back up.  it doesn't matter - you are not getting away from that sound!

Try recording silence at 0 dB and +12 dB (nothing plugged into the inputs).  Then boost the 0 dB version in software by 12dB.  Now compare - did you beat the noise or are they the same?

The reason I suggest using +12 dB of JB3 gain is because it has other benefits, as detailed in that link.  The hard drive noise is the same in all 3 approaches but the music is better using +12 on the JB3.

Wanna get rid of the hard drive noise?
best - get a preamp/a>d and use it's digital output - there won't be any noise.
better - get a preamp and boost to line level so you can record at 0 dB.  In fact, it may even be better to set the JB3 to -12dB and drive a really high analog level in order to push the hard drive noise down even further relative to the music.  Not tested yet, so not recommended yet.
good - if you don't have a pre use high sensitivity mics.  Those GS cards ain't them.
bad - where you're at - getting annoyed by extraneous noise!

I would like to hear a sample of the hard drive noise where the JB3 was set at +12 dB and NOTHING was done in post.  My guess is your levels are ridiculously low.  Can you post one?

Also, I don't know what the hell Darren is talking about in that post - that's a load of crap.  His prices are good if you're into budget mics, but the specs on the cards say they're very low sensitivity.  You might stand a chance with the omnis in loud situations..

[kfrinkle]

dklein -

  I disagree here.  What I think is happening is that the built in preamp, which sits inside the JB3 (of course) doesnt really pick much up at 0dB.  I will admit that it could pick something up at 0dB gain, that is what it is.  BUT, with the preamp sitting next to the hard drive and what not, any time you use the gain to boost the signal, it picks up the hard drive noise at a much higher ratio (e.g. ratio of boosting hard drive noise to actual incoming signal becomes greater).  Perhaps I am full of shit, I dunno.  In my experience, if I leave the JB3 on 0dB gain, and boost the signal later in Wavelab, I get no beeps, even on the quiet parts.  However, for instance at this Tracy Chapman show I taped not too long ago, I had it on +4dB and boosted afterwards.  You can hear the beeps quite pronounced.  So now when I tape quieter shows, i can use my sp-spsb-1 with preamp built in, or just boost the signal afterwards.  Like I said, I could be full of shit, but this is what I have experienced so far.  And since I am leaving tomorrow morning ass early for a job interview and wont be back to wednesday evening, I am sure I wont remember to check this thread again, but I hope I have made my ideas clear for all to pick apart (again!)

[dklein]

I could be full of shit

hey - why don't you do that little experiment.  Plug your mics in if you want.  Won't take you more than 5 minutes and then we won't have to wonder
p.s. - I just did it again and got the same result...

[kfrinkle]

I shall when i get back from my interview, this coming weekend.  see if you are correct.

I could be full of shit

hey - why don't you do that little experiment.  Plug your mics in if you want.  Won't take you more than 5 minutes and then we won't have to wonder
p.s. - I just did it again and got the same result...

[Ed.]

i taped the yeah yeah yeahs back in the day with dynamic audio bins > dynamic audio bat box (fixed gain) > jb3 (+12db) and you can't hear beeping or the hard drive spin at all.  apparently i'm lucky.

[dhora]

I just did the test.
1) Taped silence for 2 min at +12db on the jb3.
2) Taped silence for 2 min at 0db on the jb3 and boosted by +12db in Cool Edit Pro.

I didn't hear any difference between the two.  I couldn't hear any hard drive noise or beeping on either.  The snow coming from my speakers from being up that loud enough to try to hear anything and the hard drive on my computer effectively covered any noise that was recorded by my jb3.

What I did notice was that the wavform of test 1 was higher than the waveform of the test 2.
I spoke into the mics at the beginning of the tests to indicate which test was which. The levels of my voice on the first one is higher. I spoke from pretty much the same spot.

I normalized a 30 sec sample from each clip to 0db.  I could easily hear beeps every 5-10 sec or so in both clips. The beeps from both tests sounded about the same loudness to me. 

My conclusion: I think that the beeping from the jb3 is the same in both tests.  As long as you're not listening to dead air, I don't think the beeping is a problem.

Here is are links to mp3s of my two tests

There is a short intro saying which test is which.
At about 20 sec the levels are normalized to 0db until about 50 sec.
Then the levels drop back to the "unmolested" levels.

http://www.horaenterprises.com/mp3/test1.mp3
http://www.horaenterprises.com/mp3/test2.mp3

YMMV.

[Howid]

Maybe Im just not trained in the ear, but I heard no beeping.

[dhora]

Listen to the segments from ~20 sec to ~50 sec.  There is some beeping. When the levels aren't normalized that high, I can't hear a thing either.

[tms]

I would not push the levels on the JB3 EVER...If you get a good signal, get a preamp, that is the only way to do it unless you boost post recording.  But even then, if the signal is tooo weak, you have problems boosting to listenable levels without it sounding like ass.

So, I assume you mean "If you dont get a good signal, get a preamp"?...

And, Im confused, lol, many sources from here and the manufacturer told me I dont need a preamp, now I do?

I think there's a big lie going on out there!  Battery boxes do not, in fact, give line level signals.

I run mini-cardioid mics from SoundProfessionals thru a SP battery box and into an MD player/recorder and found the same thing, the levels they claimed would be line level are certainly not.  I had to crank the gain on the MD up to +25-30 ! to get a good signal.  My JB3 only goes up to +12 and from what I've heard you don't want to crank the gain up anyway on these.

So now I'm looking at getting a pre-amp and my bare bones system is getting more and more expensive. Isn't that always the way with hobbies?

Todd in Buffalo

[Howid]

I would not push the levels on the JB3 EVER...If you get a good signal, get a preamp, that is the only way to do it unless you boost post recording.  But even then, if the signal is tooo weak, you have problems boosting to listenable levels without it sounding like ass.

So, I assume you mean "If you dont get a good signal, get a preamp"?...

And, Im confused, lol, many sources from here and the manufacturer told me I dont need a preamp, now I do?

I think there's a big lie going on out there!  Battery boxes do not, in fact, give line level signals.

I run mini-cardioid mics from SoundProfessionals thru a SP battery box and into an MD player/recorder and found the same thing, the levels they claimed would be line level are certainly not.  I had to crank the gain on the MD up to +25-30 ! to get a good signal.  My JB3 only goes up to +12 and from what I've heard you don't want to crank the gain up anyway on these.

So now I'm looking at getting a pre-amp and my bare bones system is getting more and more expensive. Isn't that always the way with hobbies?

Todd in Buffalo

lol, yeah, for sure. Seems what once seems cheap quickly tunrs to be an investment. But, as we all know, most of the time, it's worth it.

[Howid]

welp, going to test this tonight. I have a friends band playing, so Ill fiddle with the gains and all that and perhaps post some snippits for feedback.