Topic: dsd, pcm, and an interesting comment

[Daryan]

Taken from an audioasylum post...discuss if you like.



But DBT and hi-res rear their ugly heads again:

Here's the abstract of a paper just given at AES' Barcelona conference:

O-1 Differences of Hearing Impressions among Several High Sampling Digital Recording Formats—Toshiyuki Nishiguchi, Kimio Hamasaki, NHK Science & Technical Research Laboratories - Tokyo, Japan
To study the difference of hearing impression of recorded sound among several high sampling digital recording formats, we conducted subjective evaluation tests. Perceptual discrimination was evaluated among the following digital recording formats: 24-bit/48-kHz, 24-bit/192-kHz, and DSD. The sound reproduction system for the subjective evaluation tests was carefully designed in order to reproduce the highest quality of sound on each digital recording format. Listening panels were selected from students of a university of music, recording engineers, and musicians. Sound stimuli for the evaluation were originally recorded to have exactly the same quality of analog signal that was fed to different A/D conversion systems. The results of subjective evaluation using the pair test method showed that the sound quality of the auditory frequency band in this experimental system might not depend on the sampling format.
Convention Paper 6469

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I have not read the paper itself, but, the abstract seems to suggest that 24-bit 48 kHz cannot be DBT distinguished from DSD. Had they said that 16-bit 44.1 could not be distinguished from DSD, I'd cock an eyebrow at that. But people with no axes to grind and decades of experience have told me that the big jump in sound quality is going from 16 bit to 20, and after that increment, you are hugely in diminishing returns.

FWIW.

John Marks

[BobW]

I believe it.

There are some perceptual differences possible in going from 48kHz to 96kHz sample rates, but it is very hard to hear.
An experienced engineer would likely pick it up in a Double-Blind Test, IMHO.
Neil Young's engineer insists that he can blind-test pick it, FWIW.

192 kHz ?  FX work is where I've been told that it matters.
DSD is an enigma to me.  I do not understand it enough to say anything semi-intelligent.

[George]

Man, it's strange that this post was made, i was just reading this over at head-fi.org, check it out for some interesting observations about dsd and pcm:  http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=109681

Just scroll down until you see a post from "Glassman."  I think i'm gonna need to read his comments several times to even start understanding what the heck he's talking about   

[Nick in Edinboro]

I'll never understand what he's talking about!

I like the comment made in there,... on page one, (paraphrasing)
Its hard to record with just two mics!

You mean you don't understand the simple theories of delta sigma?!   Head spinning....I think I just oversampled my brainpan

[Daryan]

What do you want to know

[rocksuitcase]

wowo,  great thread on that headphone board.  great reading and highly educational.
thanks for posting

[George]

I'll never understand what he's talking about!

I like the comment made in there,... on page one, (paraphrasing)
Its hard to record with just two mics!

I gotta admit, i kinda chuckled when i read that as well.

[Ray76]

now see that stuff makes my head seriously hurt. Its a blessing though, because I know after I got my music degree, I certainly didnt enjoy music as much from a listening standpoint after the fact. Something about reducing music to mathematical engineer-speak makes me feel funny inside.

mercifully, God has not granted me a brain capable of comprehending higher mathematical/engineering speak , but thanks man! I got some new words!+T thank God there are those of you out there who can understand this stuff so that hicks like me dont have to.

Interesting for sure. Like reading hebrew after the eye doctor dilates your pupils.

Ray

[Daryan]

Have you guys ever tried to understand the technical mumbo jumbo in stereophile before?  Those measurements drive me nuts every month!

[Ray76]

Have you guys ever tried to understand the technical mumbo jumbo in stereophile before?  Those measurements drive me nuts every month!

man, to hell with all that stuff. record, transfer, listen. no need to split atoms or quote from the annals of nuclear astrophysicists monthly. damn nerds. will take anything and turn it into a science ridden diatribe.

 

[George]

Have you guys ever tried to understand the technical mumbo jumbo in stereophile before?  Those measurements drive me nuts every month!

man, to hell with all that stuff. record, transfer, listen. no need to split atoms or quote from the annals of nuclear astrophysicists monthly. damn nerds. will take anything and turn it into a science ridden diatribe.

 

Sounds like a plan