Topic: MMe Mic Gain issues with Nak CM300 or CM700 mics

[LeftoverSammy]

So a friend of mine has been playing with his new MMe using my Nak mod CM700's and his stock Nak CM300's recently to tape a run of shows (YMSB & Shanti Groove) over the last couple days. What we observed is that using either mics (switched them around), both having NEW batteries he experienced very low recording gain levels running the MMe as his pre. In fact in order for him just to obtain -12db rec. levels he had to run the MMe wide open!!

When I ran my Nak700's with my V3 I never had an issue with getting enough gain, but the V3 puts out +60db of gain while the MMe only puts out +46db (correct me if I'm wrong). Could this delta in mic gain be the factor we observed in regards to low rec levels while running the MMe wide open with the Nak mics?? Has anyone else who has run Naks with the MMe had this issue? I know that my 700's do not have a hot output, so I know it takes more gain from a pre than most mikes. It would only be with a show that is not really loud music (primarily blue grass, acoustic, etc. - not loud rock or FOB position where gain is not even an issue).

Does the MMe just not have enough balls to run the Naks in a quiet type recording environment?? I know that my w-mod UA-5 sometimes had this issue with the 300's and 700's in more quiet shows, so I ran my Nak MX-100 infront of it to give it that little "umph" it needed to obtain proper recording levels.

Any thoughts? Is it possible the MMe has issues? He is very bummed and would like to know. Any Nak heads out there with this gear see similar results??

Peace,
LoS

[bluegrass_brad]

Did he check that the pad under the cap isnt switched on?

[Kyle]

I had the same problem with my friend's CM300s and my old AD1k. We went mic in, and could not even get to -12db with 40db of gain and the purple knobs wide open. WE tried mic-in on his Teac DA-P20 and got good levels - went back to the AD1k, low levels once again. I was thinking that maybe even though the Teac has xlr in's, it might be set to -10db (consumer) not +4 (pro). I am guessing that the Apogee is a more "professional" device, but then again I know nothing....

[marc0789]

So a friend of mine has been playing with his new MMe using my Nak mod CM700's and his stock Nak CM300's recently to tape a run of shows (YMSB & Shanti Groove) over the last couple days. What we observed is that using either mics (switched them around), both having NEW batteries he experienced very low recording gain levels running the MMe as his pre. In fact in order for him just to obtain -12db rec. levels he had to run the MMe wide open!!

When I ran my Nak700's with my V3 I never had an issue with getting enough gain, but the V3 puts out +60db of gain while the MMe only puts out +46db (correct me if I'm wrong). Could this delta in mic gain be the factor we observed in regards to low rec levels while running the MMe wide open with the Nak mics?? Has anyone else who has run Naks with the MMe had this issue? I know that my 700's do not have a hot output, so I know it takes more gain from a pre than most mikes. It would only be with a show that is not really loud music (primarily blue grass, acoustic, etc. - not loud rock or FOB position where gain is not even an issue).

Does the MMe just not have enough balls to run the Naks in a quiet type recording environment?? I know that my w-mod UA-5 sometimes had this issue with the 300's and 700's in more quiet shows, so I ran my Nak MX-100 infront of it to give it that little "umph" it needed to obtain proper recording levels.

Any thoughts? Is it possible the MMe has issues? He is very bummed and would like to know. Any Nak heads out there with this gear see similar results??

Peace,
LoS

I think *maybe*  you need to run line in if you are not using the mme phantom power and running self powered mics. this doesn't make sense, but I bet this is the problem. which of course is somewhat of a pita. mics may not be powered well enough for the mme to apply enough gain running mic in. Now, you would think you can get more gain running mic in, but I think with the mme, you can apply more running line in. just a theory.

[Charlies]

Yeah, have you checked to confirm that the internal jumpers are not set to low? I think I've seen some other NAK 700->mme tapes, so you should be able to figure this one out. [edit See pages 23-24 of the user manual to see if this may be the issue. www.apogeedigital.com/support/documents.php?show=minime]

[Lengthwise]

Yeah, have you checked to confirm that the internal jumpers are not set to low? I think I've seen some other NAK 700->mme tapes, so you should be able to figure this one out.

yeah, the jumpers were my first guess when I read the begining of the post....

[marc0789]

Yeah, have you checked to confirm that the internal jumpers are not set to low? I think I've seen some other NAK 700->mme tapes, so you should be able to figure this one out.

that makes a whole bunch more sense than my theory. I have nak 700>mme tapes with plenty of gain.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I'm not familiar with the Nak mics.. But for a rock show to require 40+ dB of gain is odd. They must be low output?  I've never had to run my minime in high gain mode (with C4's, Schoeps, 4061's).

I've also never had trouble running self-powered mics in normal mode on the Minime (schoeps+nbox, 4061).  Line mode shouldn't be required.

[Charlies]

Yeah, have you checked to confirm that the internal jumpers are not set to low? I think I've seen some other NAK 700->mme tapes, so you should be able to figure this one out.

that makes a whole bunch more sense than my theory. I have nak 700>mme tapes with plenty of gain.

I think Matt Hiles (probably on here) runs 700s->mme..he pulled a sweet 700->mme McPanic stage lip tape from Texas a couple few years ago.

[Steve J]

I saw this issue happen when I loaned my MME to some one at a show running NAK 300's. Low levels, even with the gain cranked. Being used to my Neumann's, the low levels surprised the heck out of me...never having used the MME with NAK's before.

[marc0789]

I saw this issue happen when I loaned my MME to some one at a show running NAK 300's. Low levels, even with the gain cranked. Being used to my Neumann's, the low levels surprised the heck out of me...never having used the MME with NAK's before.

I did have to crank the thing running dpas mic in...not a problem with the extra 20 db from the 148.

[JAH]

Yeah, have you checked to confirm that the internal jumpers are not set to low? I think I've seen some other NAK 700->mme tapes, so you should be able to figure this one out. [edit See pages 23-24 of the user manual to see if this may be the issue. www.apogeedigital.com/support/documents.php?show=minime]

that's what I'd check...naks are low output mics.....what mics did the person who owns the mme run?

[JAH]

I saw this issue happen when I loaned my MME to some one at a show running NAK 300's. Low levels, even with the gain cranked. Being used to my Neumann's, the low levels surprised the heck out of me...never having used the MME with NAK's before.

I did have to crank the thing running dpas mic in...not a problem with the extra 20 db from the 148.

 man what a sweetie...that avatar of yours...any idea who she is?    cowwwboy baaaby

sorry for the hijack ;-)

[LeftoverSammy]

Yeah, have you checked to confirm that the internal jumpers are not set to low? I think I've seen some other NAK 700->mme tapes, so you should be able to figure this one out. [edit See pages 23-24 of the user manual to see if this may be the issue. www.apogeedigital.com/support/documents.php?show=minime]

that's what I'd check...naks are low output mics.....what mics did the person who owns the mme run?

The internal pad on the CM300's was set to zero. On my CM700's we use the -15db attenuator barrels because they sound so much better than the 0db barrels. The MMe was Matt Hiles pre, who I know very well and have heard many of his tapes, but he used (on a frequent basis) running the MX-100 into the MMe mic in much of the time. When he ran FOB for Panic the sound levels would have been so much higher than lets say Yonder. My guess is that the internal jumpers are set to low as suggested in one of the earlier posts. I know from running my 700's & my previous 300's that they are indeed a low output mic. Since I have never really run a MMe before I was not aware of the internal jumpers. I'll pass this infor onto my buddy and have him reference the manual. Its does describe how to do this in the manual right??

Thanks folks for all the suggestions! He was kind of bummed out about it. I thought I would ask here before we go back to Matt and ask him. One thing is for sure, low levels or not, the CM700>MMe tapes we pulled sounded very nice taping Yonder. Not as much low end as I would like or expected to hear, but nice sounding!

Thanks and we'll let you guys know what we find.

Peace,
LoS

[Charlies]

LoS, That link I posted is to the a place where you can get a pdf of the manual, which has decent pictures of the mme opened up and of how to switch the jumpers inside.  Good luck.

[LeftoverSammy]

LoS, That link I posted is to the a place where you can get a pdf of the manual, which has decent pictures of the mme opened up and of how to switch the jumpers inside.  Good luck.

Thanks Charles! I sent that off to my buddy....we'll see this weekend how she works out - taping Mule & Moe on Saturday. I'll be running my rig, but I also talked him into going and testing it out.

+t to all for the support!

Peace,
LoS