Author Topic: DVD-A test (Read 11737 times)

udovdh · « **on:** December 25, 2005, 07:41:18 AM »

Hello,

I think the NAD T-524 does not flawlessly play back DVD-A tracks. There are slight pauses/skips in between tracks. Annyoing when it is live material.
To confirm the issue: does anyone know a (legal) DVD-A download (ISO preferred to avoid software issues) which is not too large that I could use to verify my findings?
Stereo CD-quality is OK, better is no problem.
If you know a place to get a DVD-A ISO, please post!

Thanks!

JasonSobel · « **Reply #1 on:** December 25, 2005, 10:21:56 AM »

I could create one for you, and send it your way. I'll do just a few tracks, so the ISO file isn't too large for this test. I'll put it up real soon and post again once it's up

udovdh · « **Reply #2 on:** December 25, 2005, 11:14:56 AM »

Quote from: JasonSobel on December 25, 2005, 10:21:56 AM

I could create one for you, and send it your way. I'll do just a few tracks, so the ISO file isn't too large for this test. I'll put it up real soon and post again once it's up

Would be cool! Just a few 'Live' tracks would do. Continuous audio with tracks.

JasonSobel · « **Reply #3 on:** December 25, 2005, 11:25:33 AM »

here you go:

http://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0X57C77A9GPQ12UDWSYO95AEJW

This started as a 20 minute song from a show I taped last Thursday. I used CD Wave to put in more track marks, and I think I only gave you ~10 minutes or so. So, it's all part of one song, but has 3 or 4 tracks. it's at 16/44.1, and it should all be seamless. I used Scott Brown's DVD-Audiofile to create the ISO file, which I have used countless times to create my own DVD-Audio discs, all of which play seamlessly on my Denon 2200 player.

hopefully this will help you out.

- Jason

udovdh · « **Reply #4 on:** December 25, 2005, 11:47:56 AM »

Thanks!
Will give this a try on my T524 to confirm whether or not this devie has an issue.

scb · « **Reply #5 on:** December 25, 2005, 12:09:17 PM »

udo, my program uses david's dvda-author, so jason's disc is no different from your own tests from his app

sygdwm · « **Reply #6 on:** December 25, 2005, 12:23:57 PM »

i could send you a dvd-a authored w/ wavelab5.

udovdh · « **Reply #7 on:** December 25, 2005, 12:53:28 PM »

Quote from: scott brown on December 25, 2005, 12:09:17 PM

udo, my program uses david's dvda-author, so jason's disc is no different from your own tests from his app

Ow... That may be an issue since I want to see if the software is the cause or the DVD player.
I think dvda-author is OK (even fixed a small thingie recently) but I have to have a different sourced ISO to be sure.

udovdh · « **Reply #8 on:** December 25, 2005, 12:54:05 PM »

Quote from: dre on December 25, 2005, 12:23:57 PM

i could send you a dvd-a authored w/ wavelab5.

That would be great! Just a small ISO of live audio with a few tracks so I can test.

sygdwm · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2005, 04:44:41 PM »

Quote from: udovdh on December 25, 2005, 12:54:05 PM

Quote from: dre on December 25, 2005, 12:23:57 PM
i could send you a dvd-a authored w/ wavelab5.
That would be great! Just a small ISO of live audio with a few tracks so I can test.

i dont burn .iso's. i burn an empty video_ts and an audio_ts folder w/ the .vob files. does that make sense?

scb · « **Reply #10 on:** December 25, 2005, 05:47:50 PM »

Quote from: dre on December 25, 2005, 04:44:41 PM

i dont burn .iso's. i burn an empty video_ts and an audio_ts folder w/ the .vob files. does that make sense?

with what app? it's gotta be sorted correctly or it won't play on every player...

sygdwm · « **Reply #11 on:** December 25, 2005, 10:55:56 PM »

wavelab5 burns it as an AUDIO_TS file and an empty VIDEO_TS file. i could use nero to burn it as in .iso if one insists.

udovdh · « **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2005, 01:34:30 AM »

Quote from: dre on December 25, 2005, 04:44:41 PM

Quote from: udovdh on December 25, 2005, 12:54:05 PM
Quote from: dre on December 25, 2005, 12:23:57 PM
i could send you a dvd-a authored w/ wavelab5.
That would be great! Just a small ISO of live audio with a few tracks so I can test.

i dont burn .iso's. i burn an empty video_ts and an audio_ts folder w/ the .vob files. does that make sense?

Yes and no. I recall that (for some players?) the location on the disc of some files is important (see the -pp parameter for dvda-author). Depending on how your burn software handles this it is OK.

udovdh · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2005, 08:39:42 AM »

Quote from: dre on December 25, 2005, 10:55:56 PM

wavelab5 burns it as an AUDIO_TS file and an empty VIDEO_TS file. i could use nero to burn it as in .iso if one insists.

If you could make a small ISO available that is not made using dvda-author/mkisofs I could use that ISO to test if my T524 has an issue or not.
Please do!

sygdwm · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2005, 09:46:12 AM »

Quote from: udovdh on December 26, 2005, 08:39:42 AM

Quote from: dre on December 25, 2005, 10:55:56 PM
wavelab5 burns it as an AUDIO_TS file and an empty VIDEO_TS file. i could use nero to burn it as in .iso if one insists.
If you could make a small ISO available that is not made using dvda-author/mkisofs I could use that ISO to test if my T524 has an issue or not.
Please do!

ill work on one tonite when i get off work.

udovdh · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2006, 11:56:14 AM »

Dre sent me a test DVD-A which strangely enough gave a 'disc error' on the T524.
Then I was pointed to the Wavelab howto on theis forum which worked OK: I got a DVD-A which unfortunately also gave the slight skips/pauses on the NAD T524.
I will dump this info at their site and ask when they will fix it.
(A DVD-video with the same audio plays flawless so it must be a bug...)

scb · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2006, 12:11:09 PM »

yeah sounds like your player won't do gapless dvd-a

udovdh · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2006, 01:58:25 PM »

Quote from: scott brown on January 19, 2006, 12:11:09 PM

yeah sounds like your player won't do gapless dvd-a

Wel then they gotta fix it.
As long as it isn't fixed I will haunt them.

No kidding.

I pay extra to get a DVD-player that does DVD-A.
I play extra to get quality, to get a NAD. (not to say others are bad...)
So I do not expect goofs like the gappy playback of DVD-A when DVD-A is an adverted feature.
How could this bug get past quality control!?
Can anybody comment on other NAD DVD-players and gapless DVD-A? Do they all have this problem?
Or is there an alternative NAD model?

nickgregory · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2006, 02:03:37 PM »

I would check a store bought DVD-A...not all authoring programs have the same result, and I would bet you wont get very far with NAD unless the problem is with store bought DVD-As

MBecker · « **Reply #19 on:** January 19, 2006, 04:36:06 PM »

the customer service I received from NAD regarding my faulty receiver was piss-poor. I doubt you will have any luck from them, I think your best bet is to approach your dealer and see if they can help out.

udovdh · « **Reply #20 on:** January 20, 2006, 02:09:48 AM »

Quote from: nickgregory on January 19, 2006, 02:03:37 PM

I would check a store bought DVD-A...not all authoring programs have the same result, and I would bet you wont get very far with NAD unless the problem is with store bought DVD-As

Does anybody know a nice but cheap pressed DVD-A with live audio?
I'll get that one and use it as a reference for them.

udovdh · « **Reply #21 on:** January 20, 2006, 02:10:57 AM »

Quote from: MBecker on January 19, 2006, 04:36:06 PM

the customer service I received from NAD regarding my faulty receiver was piss-poor. I doubt you will have any luck from them, I think your best bet is to approach your dealer and see if they can help out.

They are relatively people that sell boxes. I am in contact with the Dutch distributor/importer that NAD referred me to.
Let's see what their response will be.

cbd · « **Reply #22 on:** January 20, 2006, 07:14:11 PM »

let me add, I am not happy with NAD's dvd players in general. I love my receiver but I have the T53 & it even locks up & skips on a lot of regular burned video dvd's...... Its frustrating for me & I'm looking to get something else.

udovdh · « **Reply #23 on:** January 21, 2006, 03:14:43 AM »

Hmm. The main use for the NAD DVD is to play DVD-A. It sits next to a C320BEE, CB521BEE and a C422.
If the problem also occurs with pressed DVD-A's it would give a very very bad impression if they don't fix this and still market the player as DVD-A capable.
So lets wait until they answer the ticket or until the distributor replies. (of course a friday is no working day so do not expect an answer)

scb · « **Reply #24 on:** January 21, 2006, 09:12:49 AM »

we had 2 NAD units in my house at school, a pre and a power amp. the power amp never worked correctly, and was serviced at least 6 times. the pre only worked if you kept the volume down below 50%

nickgregory · « **Reply #25 on:** January 21, 2006, 09:20:42 AM »

Quote from: scott brown on January 21, 2006, 09:12:49 AM

we had 2 NAD units in my house at school, a pre and a power amp. the power amp never worked correctly, and was serviced at least 6 times. the pre only worked if you kept the volume down below 50%

thats a shame...I have heard of alot of problems with newer units. I have an old NAD 7175PE receiver I use in my office system and I love it...

scb · « **Reply #26 on:** January 21, 2006, 10:28:58 PM »

these were both late 90s units. probably '97 or '98

udovdh · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2006, 05:55:26 AM »

If anybody has a tip for a cheap pressed DVD-A disc with live, continuous audio that is available from a European/Dutch (online) retailer that I could use to test the NAD T524 problem, please post. Music must be halfway decent, at least.

MBecker · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2006, 10:03:13 AM »

"thats a shame...I have heard of alot of problems with newer units. I have an old NAD 7175PE receiver I use in my office system and I love it..."

there have been a lot of problems with the 7x2 and 7x3 receiver line, the pre/power amps appear to have a much better reputation (excluding scott's experience).

udovdh · « **Reply #29 on:** January 23, 2006, 12:11:13 PM »

Hmm. Got a reply from NAD.
But cannot view the ticket due to dBase issues.

Teen Age Riot · « **Reply #30 on:** January 24, 2006, 06:32:52 AM »

Okay, I just got to test the NAD T524 with both "home-made" DVD-As (burned with WaveLab 5) and commercial ones. It always produces gaps...
Interestingly, the cheaper Yamaha S657 did not have this problem. Instead of the gaps you get clicks that sound like the good old sector boundary errors that we've all grown to love...

The Yamaha S1500 (which is more expensive than the NAD) worked flawlessly.

udovdh · « **Reply #31 on:** January 24, 2006, 07:19:22 AM »

Please file a ticket at the NAD website (http://www.nadelectronics.com/help/) and also at the local distributor for your country.
I find this bug quite unacceptable.

udovdh · « **Reply #32 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:19:37 AM »

I got a reply:

Q: Do commercially made (pressed) DVD-A's with live, continuous audio work OK?

A: Yes, the T524 should play these discs perfectly..with no skipping issues

Q: Do DVD-A's burned by other setups work OK? (is my software bust?)

A: We have not tested any burned DVD-A due to the fact that non commercial DVD-A's are not usually available.

So now I really need a pressed DVD-A with continuous audio to test this out.
Where in the EU or rather Netherlands could I get a pressed DVD-A with live, continuous music with track marks in between?
I mean: local record stores (Free Record Shop, Music Store, etc) don't carry other stuff that loads of DVD's (video) and a few CD's.
What online retailer in the EU has a selection of DVD-A's?
What funk/rock/jazz title would fit my requirements?

scb · « **Reply #33 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:43:39 AM »

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000Z80HU/qid=1138207401/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl/028-7528149-8082123

udovdh · « **Reply #34 on:** January 25, 2006, 12:03:26 PM »

Quote from: scott brown on January 25, 2006, 11:43:39 AM

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000Z80HU/qid=1138207401/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl/028-7528149-8082123

Beck? (see how little info a sales page has...)
It does have live audio? (could not verify from the site)

Thanks for the tip!

scb · « **Reply #35 on:** January 25, 2006, 05:56:14 PM »

oh, it's not live, but you would be able to hear if there's a gap i think

or just get Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots. it's got continuous tracks

udovdh · « **Reply #36 on:** January 27, 2006, 11:22:22 AM »

Another very promising reply:

We will not be addressing this issue with a firmware upgrade.

All T524's will play the same with burned DVD-A's. This is not a format that we expect the T524 to support. It should support store bought DVD-A's.

So the refuse to even research and do not even provide an alternative.
They DO support CD-R but DVD-R (-A...) is of course imposisble.

Does anyone know if the other available NAD DVD-A players also suffer from this problem?

scb · « **Reply #37 on:** January 27, 2006, 11:34:43 AM »

i doubt it's a dvd-r thing. if a burned dvd-a has gaps, i'm betting a commercial one will, too

udovdh · « **Reply #38 on:** January 27, 2006, 11:45:53 AM »

Quote from: scott brown on January 27, 2006, 11:34:43 AM

i doubt it's a dvd-r thing. if a burned dvd-a has gaps, i'm betting a commercial one will, too

I was told that gaps (as on track-at-once CD's) don't exist on DVD-A. I guess so.
Can anyone confirm?
The drive in the T524 reads the DVD+R's I use without problem. DVD+R support is even in the product spec.
So they give the same support (probably less) as the manufacturer of a cheap $50 DVD from far away.
The local distributor does not even respond to my emails.
Also they don't have other DVD player models.

So what is a nice alternative for the T524?
It should be available in Europe, same price range as the T524, darkish case colour, support DVD-A, support progressive scan.

Teen Age Riot · « **Reply #39 on:** January 27, 2006, 03:53:59 PM »

Quote from: scott brown on January 27, 2006, 11:34:43 AM

i doubt it's a dvd-r thing. if a burned dvd-a has gaps, i'm betting a commercial one will, too

Exactely. I tried "Hotel California" on the 524. You don't hear the gaps (because there's no continous music), but can see how the counter kinda jumps back a bit as a new track begins. As I said above, this is not just an NAD problem. The cheaper Yamaha player did something similar.

nickgregory · « **Reply #40 on:** January 27, 2006, 04:09:29 PM »

Quote from: moon-pix on January 27, 2006, 03:53:59 PM

Quote from: scott brown on January 27, 2006, 11:34:43 AM
i doubt it's a dvd-r thing. if a burned dvd-a has gaps, i'm betting a commercial one will, too

Exactely. I tried "Hotel California" on the 524. You don't hear the gaps (because there's no continous music), but can see how the counter kinda jumps back a bit as a new track begins. As I said above, this is not just an NAD problem. The cheaper Yamaha player did something similar.

a lot of players do it...it is a buffer issue. The Samsung HD-841 did exactly what you described. The Pioneer Elite DV-45A I know doesnt produce gaps.

udovdh · « **Reply #41 on:** January 28, 2006, 05:45:29 AM »

Well, I will check out the T524 with some pressed DVD-A's and if these produce similar issues I will continue my offensive...

udovdh · « **Reply #42 on:** January 29, 2006, 01:18:19 PM »

New reply:

Our engineers are going to investigate this further. However, we do need to ask for your patience as it will take awhile for them to look into this. We will inform you of our findings as soon as possible.

Hmmm. I first have to compare them to a manufacturer of a $50 DVD-player before they seriously look into the matter?
I wrote:

Your product info for the T524 specifies:

Plays DVD-Video, DVD-R, DVD+-RW, VCD 2.0, JPEG, DivX
Plays DVD-Audio*, CD, CD-R, CD-RW, MP-3, WMA

a) So the drive will read burned DVD discs. (+ and - even!)
b) Also the T524 is said to play the format of DVD-A.
c) So the drive can read the DVD-A format from my burned DVD+R
d) Therefor it should be able to play the disc I made
e) It even does play the disc with so far only one fault: the skips at the track changes!

[cut]

udovdh · « **Reply #43 on:** January 31, 2006, 10:12:19 AM »

Update, just sent NAD:

Hello,

Just tried the pressed DVD-A of Curtis Mayfield Live at Ronnie Scott's and it suffers from the same phenomenon: it skips when a new track starts.
So your product officially has a flaw.
Please confirm you will fix this bug in the buffering of the audio stream.

Thanks,
Udo

udovdh · « **Reply #44 on:** February 02, 2006, 11:13:48 AM »

BTW: Who knows the requirements for a player to be able to carry the DVD-audio logo?

udovdh · « **Reply #45 on:** February 06, 2006, 03:26:07 AM »

Just informed the distributor for the BeNeLux (AND Benelux, no typo) about the NAD T524 issue. (probably also the T534, etc)

udovdh · « **Reply #46 on:** October 12, 2006, 01:17:22 PM »

After a lengthy communication on the NAD website I decided to call their office by phone.
One person there is now reviewing the communication and trying to resolve the situation with the playback bug in the NAD T524.