Topic: V3 clicks and pops

[whitenite]

I already possess the Shures, but haven't needed them.

Sounds like you might need them!  At least as a test, anyway.

I find that hardly the case.  These are $4k tubes.  As mentioned, the MME handles it fine.

I think wboswell means running the mics > MMe standalone.  From the thread, I've only read that you've gone V3 analog out > MMe.  


I'd try three things at this point, one step at a time:

[1]  change the mic cables
[2]  run mics > MMe standalone
[3]  run the Shure attenuators in front of the V3
(you have them, might as well see if they solve the problem...sorry if you've tried this before, but I don't think I saw it mentioned in the thread)

I have already ran mics > MME standalone and did not have this problem.  Perhaps a little distortion on the overs, but definitely no clicks or pops.  I was using the Hosa cables as well (same ones I use now).  I have a pair of Blue cables I can try.  If I ran the Shure attens in front of the V3, I would be pushing the gain to the max.  Right now I am only pushing about 40 dB of gain with the mic pads or V3 pad.  Don't see why another atten source would matter.

[whitenite]

>> I ran it again tonight without the -20 and got the same thing - pops and clicks.  To compensate, I ran -12 on the mics. <<

what happens when there is NO pad at all?

Haven't tried this yet with the V3.  Suspect the gain would be minimal.

[Brian Skalinder]

I have already ran mics > MME standalone and did not have this problem.  Perhaps a little distortion on the overs, but definitely no clicks or pops.  I was using the Hosa cables as well (same ones I use now).  I have a pair of Blue cables I can try.

Gotcha, I missed that somewhow.

If I ran the Shure attens in front of the V3, I would be pushing the gain to the max.  Right now I am only pushing about 40 dB of gain with the mic pads or V3 pad.  Don't see why another atten source would matter.

The amount of gain applied after the input stage isn't the issue with brickwalling.  It's the signal pre-input stage.  That's why the attenuators are worth testing, IMO.  And I'd still test the other cables with the V3, even though you've tested the current cables in the MMe with good results.

Your best bet at this stage is probably to call the folks at Grace and talk to them at length and in detail about your experiences to date.  I don't know the details on the V3, but when I ran a modSBM-1 I encountered similar problems because the op-amps started to croak.  Maybe it's a similar problem?  Whatever it is, Grace should be able to help - it may require sending the V3 back to them, but you have the MMe to use in the meantime, anyway.  If anyone can help, they can.

[whitenite]

I never intended on keeping both the V3 and the MME, honestly.  Have been testing both to determine which I find more appealing.  In all cases thus far, I have found the MME to be the superior of the two.  The V3 does seem consistent "all-around", but the MME accentuates the bottom end much better IMO.  This actually leverages my decision on which I want to keep, and all fingers are pointing at the MME at this point.  May just go ahead and sell the V3 and be done with it, but not sure just yet...

[Brian Skalinder]

I never intended on keeping both the V3 and the MME, honestly.  Have been testing both to determine which I find more appealing.  In all cases thus far, I have found the MME to be the superior of the two.  The V3 does seem consistent "all-around", but the MME accentuates the bottom end much better IMO.  This actually leverages my decision on which I want to keep, and all fingers are pointing at the MME at this point.  May just go ahead and sell the V3 and be done with it, but not sure just yet...

Yeah, if you the sound of the MMe with your mics, go for it standalone.  I personally believe you should rule out any problem with the V3 before you sell it, but...that's up to you.

[F.O.Bean]

I never intended on keeping both the V3 and the MME, honestly.  Have been testing both to determine which I find more appealing.  In all cases thus far, I have found the MME to be the superior of the two.  The V3 does seem consistent "all-around", but the MME accentuates the bottom end much better IMO.  This actually leverages my decision on which I want to keep, and all fingers are pointing at the MME at this point.  May just go ahead and sell the V3 and be done with it, but not sure just yet...

Yeah, if you the sound of the MMe with your mics, go for it standalone.  I personally believe you should rule out any problem with the V3 before you sell it, but...that's up to you.

i agree, if theres a problem w/ the v3, find out if its running first before you sell.....ya dont wanna sella lemon, ya know!!!!!!+T for yer troubles tho....

[F.O.Bean]

beofre ruling out the v3, i would even but some cheap ass mics at RS and see if problem persisted.you could ALWAYS take em back......

[scb]

question:  if you can run mic in on the minime without attenutation, why aren't you running mic in on the v3 without attenuation?

[whitenite]

question:  if you can run mic in on the minime without attenutation, why aren't you running mic in on the v3 without attenuation?

I actually learned this the hard way.  My first trial run with the Sennheisers was Mics > MME with the 12 dB pad on the mics.  I have the Rev A version of the MME (which is supposed to be low gain, no jumpers) and had the gain all the way down.  Alas, I still clipped.  Ran soft limit, which didn't help because the signal was too overbearing.  BTW, was at Nissan about 8th row dead on the stack.  Despite all of this, I never had a problem with clicks and pops (only bass distortion).  This is why I have taken extra precaution with the V3.  Chances are I may not need any attenuation.  Do you think the attenuation may be a factor for this problem?

[Tim]

question:  if you can run mic in on the minime without attenutation, why aren't you running mic in on the v3 without attenuation?

I actually learned this the hard way.  My first trial run with the Sennheisers was Mics > MME with the 12 dB pad on the mics.  I have the Rev A version of the MME (which is supposed to be low gain, no jumpers) and had the gain all the way down.  Alas, I still clipped.  Ran soft limit, which didn't help because the signal was too overbearing.  BTW, was at Nissan about 8th row dead on the stack.  Despite all of this, I never had a problem with clicks and pops (only bass distortion).  This is why I have taken extra precaution with the V3.  Chances are I may not need any attenuation.  Do you think the attenuation may be a factor for this problem?

the soft limit only affects the digital signal, it prevents you from registering digital overs only. It has no affect on the analog signal, it is not like having a pad. Completely different animals.

I cannot tell if you are hearing digital overs or if there is some sort of distortion in the analog signal path.

do you have anyway to make a few shn or even mp3 samples of the problem recordings? that would really help.

other than that I would think about sending the V3 in to grace  for a checkup.

[plucks]

The V3 was at about 1:00 with the -20.  Remember, these are some sensitive mics.  I ran it again tonight without the -20 and got the same thing - pops and clicks.  To compensate, I ran -12 on the mics.  V3 was at 12:00.

Have you tried turning the gain down more on the v3?  Like to 20 or 25? Even so, it probably won't fix it.  
I think it seems like the mics are so sensitive that no matter what you do with this type of application, you may overload the mics which in turn make it seem as though the v3 and MMe are overloading as well.  Definitely a serious set of attenuators is needed if you are recording loud music.

If you were doing some nature recording, i believe you wouldn't run into this problem since they incoming levels won't be as high.  

I don't have a real answer hear, but I am thinking the mics are not able to handle the application you are using them in.

Good luck
Phil

[whitenite]

question:  if you can run mic in on the minime without attenutation, why aren't you running mic in on the v3 without attenuation?

I actually learned this the hard way.  My first trial run with the Sennheisers was Mics > MME with the 12 dB pad on the mics.  I have the Rev A version of the MME (which is supposed to be low gain, no jumpers) and had the gain all the way down.  Alas, I still clipped.  Ran soft limit, which didn't help because the signal was too overbearing.  BTW, was at Nissan about 8th row dead on the stack.  Despite all of this, I never had a problem with clicks and pops (only bass distortion).  This is why I have taken extra precaution with the V3.  Chances are I may not need any attenuation.  Do you think the attenuation may be a factor for this problem?

the soft limit only affects the digital signal, it prevents you from registering digital overs only. It has no affect on the analog signal, it is not like having a pad. Completely different animals.

I cannot tell if you are hearing digital overs or if there is some sort of distortion in the analog signal path.

do you have anyway to make a few shn or even mp3 samples of the problem recordings? that would really help.

other than that I would think about sending the V3 in to grace  for a checkup.

Not sure I agree with you 100% here.  To say it has no affect on the analog signal is not true.  Since it prevents digital overs, the process occurs in the pre stage (prior to A/D).   Did not intend to hit on this topic for this thread.  Was just making an editorial comment that, in my experience, the use of soft limit is not good practice.

[whitenite]

The V3 was at about 1:00 with the -20.  Remember, these are some sensitive mics.  I ran it again tonight without the -20 and got the same thing - pops and clicks.  To compensate, I ran -12 on the mics.  V3 was at 12:00.

Have you tried turning the gain down more on the v3?  Like to 20 or 25? Even so, it probably won't fix it.  
I think it seems like the mics are so sensitive that no matter what you do with this type of application, you may overload the mics which in turn make it seem as though the v3 and MMe are overloading as well.  Definitely a serious set of attenuators is needed if you are recording loud music.

If you were doing some nature recording, i believe you wouldn't run into this problem since they incoming levels won't be as high.  

I don't have a real answer hear, but I am thinking the mics are not able to handle the application you are using them in.

Good luck
Phil

I'm not convinced these are incapable, just not exaggerated with this type of application.  My previous three tapes have been a success.  Since switching the V3 back to 0 input attenuation I have not had this 'clicking' problem.  Love those hypers!

I think I am going to keep the V3.  Certainly a better pre than the MME.  Now I would argue whether it is a better A/D or not, but the combination is quite intriguing.

[Tim]

question:  if you can run mic in on the minime without attenutation, why aren't you running mic in on the v3 without attenuation?

I actually learned this the hard way.  My first trial run with the Sennheisers was Mics > MME with the 12 dB pad on the mics.  I have the Rev A version of the MME (which is supposed to be low gain, no jumpers) and had the gain all the way down.  Alas, I still clipped.  Ran soft limit, which didn't help because the signal was too overbearing.  BTW, was at Nissan about 8th row dead on the stack.  Despite all of this, I never had a problem with clicks and pops (only bass distortion).  This is why I have taken extra precaution with the V3.  Chances are I may not need any attenuation.  Do you think the attenuation may be a factor for this problem?

the soft limit only affects the digital signal, it prevents you from registering digital overs only. It has no affect on the analog signal, it is not like having a pad. Completely different animals.

I cannot tell if you are hearing digital overs or if there is some sort of distortion in the analog signal path.

do you have anyway to make a few shn or even mp3 samples of the problem recordings? that would really help.

other than that I would think about sending the V3 in to grace  for a checkup.

Not sure I agree with you 100% here.  To say it has no affect on the analog signal is not true.  Since it prevents digital overs, the process occurs in the pre stage (prior to A/D).   Did not intend to hit on this topic for this thread.  Was just making an editorial comment that, in my experience, the use of soft limit is not good practice.

you're right, brain fart!!!

[F.O.Bean]

question:  if you can run mic in on the minime without attenutation, why aren't you running mic in on the v3 without attenuation?

I actually learned this the hard way.  My first trial run with the Sennheisers was Mics > MME with the 12 dB pad on the mics.  I have the Rev A version of the MME (which is supposed to be low gain, no jumpers) and had the gain all the way down.  Alas, I still clipped.  Ran soft limit, which didn't help because the signal was too overbearing.  BTW, was at Nissan about 8th row dead on the stack.  Despite all of this, I never had a problem with clicks and pops (only bass distortion).  This is why I have taken extra precaution with the V3.  Chances are I may not need any attenuation.  Do you think the attenuation may be a factor for this problem?

the soft limit only affects the digital signal, it prevents you from registering digital overs only. It has no affect on the analog signal, it is not like having a pad. Completely different animals.

I cannot tell if you are hearing digital overs or if there is some sort of distortion in the analog signal path.

do you have anyway to make a few shn or even mp3 samples of the problem recordings? that would really help.

other than that I would think about sending the V3 in to grace  for a checkup.

Not sure I agree with you 100% here.  To say it has no affect on the analog signal is not true.  Since it prevents digital overs, the process occurs in the pre stage (prior to A/D).   Did not intend to hit on this topic for this thread.  Was just making an editorial comment that, in my experience, the use of soft limit is not good practice.

you're right, brain fart!!!

quite the man to admit he was a lil wrong....