Topic: flac ffp vs. md5 checksum

[T.J.]

i searched the forums and didn't see this discussed too much. i am curious what everyone is doing with there flacs and why. i am currently only creating an ffp file for my flacs. i have read on etree how it is really an area of grey whether it is necessary or overkill to also create a md5 checksum for recordings. i fall into the category that feels it's overkill.

[BJ]

I only do ffp

[T.J.]

after creating this i realized probably nobody only creates a md5, but i'm not entirely certain.

[Nick Graham]

I do both, better safe than sorry.

Also, it just seems easier to run a MD5 check than to compare 2 FFP files.

[Craig T]

I do both, but I agree it's complete overkill.  The only reason I do it was that I've had at least one LMA admin insist I include both, not because it made any real sense, but because the band's policy required the md5's.  It only takes a few seconds to create the md5 file, so I just do it as routine to prevent further issues with my uploads going public.  IMO, only the FFP is necessary when seeding FLACs.

[Nick Graham]

is there a utility that will create an md5 of a .wav file bigger than 2gb?  my mkw chokes on them.  does everyones?

xACT 1.58 (our own Scott Brown's nifty little creation)

It will do everything you could possibly want. Encode/Decode, creates FFP and MD5s, fixes SBEs, etc. It also works with both FLAC and SHN.

[Kush]

only ffp

[Nick Graham]

+Ts may be a bit premature, as I think this may be a Mac only program.

Anyone know for sure?

[OFOTD]

I only do ffp

[bgalizio]

+Ts may be a bit premature, as I think this may be a Mac only program.

Anyone know for sure?

Windows version is available too:
http://crush.epix.net/~scb/index.php

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I do FFPs and WAV MD5s for my FLAC sets offered to BT, etc.

Terry

[Shawn]

I generally only create an md5. It does the job, it's easy to do, and makes it easy to verify the files.

I'm fairly certain archive.org creates an ffp file for you when you upload a show.

[terrapinj]

i started only doing FFP but after trying to verify a few shows, I found its much easier to check with an MD5 so i'm doing both now.

[sleepypedro]

after creating this i realized probably nobody only creates a md5, but i'm not entirely certain.

i only create an md5.

[greenone]

xACT for Mac only creates ffp's for FLACs, so that's all I do (well, it does shntool md5's but not whole-file md5's). I'm anal about checking my LMA uploads anyway, so even without the md5 I can still tell if something failed because the mp3/oggs didn't derive.

[blu666z]

I only create an MD5 file.  No automatic way to verify using an FFP.

-Kevin

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I only create an MD5 file.  No automatic way to verify using an FFP.

-Kevin

I think TLH does this...

T

[dhora]

I do both ffp and .md5

It's easier to check the .md5 and I also include an .md5 of the original .wav files.

[blu666z]

I think TLH does this...

T

TLH?

[terrapinj]

I think TLH does this...

T

TLH?

Trader's Little Helper

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I think TLH does this...

T

TLH?

Trader's Little Helper:  http://thor.prohosting.com/roh0205/

[taper420]

xACT for Mac only creates ffp's for FLACs, so that's all I do (well, it does shntool md5's but not whole-file md5's).

Actually it does, I believe if you choose shntool md5 and then cancel it (when choosing the files), the next time you press it, it will ask shntool md5 or traditional instead of fingerprint or shntool..... so cancel first, then try again.

I usually do both, and after reading this thread, I'm always gonna do both..... It hardly takes any extra effort, and different people have different preferences, so why not facilitate both? I didn't even realize md5s were easier to check.. huh.

[greenone]

xACT for Mac only creates ffp's for FLACs, so that's all I do (well, it does shntool md5's but not whole-file md5's).

Actually it does, I believe if you choose shntool md5 and then cancel it (when choosing the files), the next time you press it, it will ask shntool md5 or traditional instead of fingerprint or shntool..... so cancel first, then try again.

I usually do both, and after reading this thread, I'm always gonna do both..... It hardly takes any extra effort, and different people have different preferences, so why not facilitate both? I didn't even realize md5s were easier to check.. huh.

Whoa! I had no idea...very cool! +T for the tip.

[svenkid]

md5 only! 

[newplanet7]

I am bumping this because I see md5's with flac file sets as useless because if you change a tag
 which has nothing to do with the files integrity, the md5 will fail.

Views?

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I am bumping this because I see md5's with flac file sets as useless because if you change a tag
 which has nothing to do with the files integrity, the md5 will fail.

Views?

This probably came up on that MMW source on BT??? 

I agree that MD5s for FLACs are (almost) useless as a change in Tags makes the MD5 bunk...  I use FFPs and verify them in TLH...

Terry

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I am bumping this because I see md5's with flac file sets as useless because if you change a tag
 which has nothing to do with the files integrity, the md5 will fail.

Views?

This probably came up on that MMW source on BT??? 

I agree that MD5s for FLACs are (almost) useless as a change in Tags makes the MD5 bunk...  I use FFPs and verify them in TLH...

Terry

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=550492#startcomments

I actually found this Topic when I searched:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145610.msg1873279#msg1873279

Terry

[Craig T]

the only time I add md5's to FLAC filesets is when required for upload to LMA.  they are a total waste, IMO.

[newplanet7]

I am bumping this because I see md5's with flac file sets as useless because if you change a tag
 which has nothing to do with the files integrity, the md5 will fail.

Views?

This probably came up on that MMW source on BT??? 

I agree that MD5s for FLACs are (almost) useless as a change in Tags makes the MD5 bunk...  I use FFPs and verify them in TLH...

Terry

Yep. I am in the Shack Project with duggy.
He does things in the audio realm and has no clue why sometimes. 

Another thing that grabs me is when people use an md5 file for a file set and include the txt file. 
One little change to the txt and the md5 fails. Pretty big mistake when setlists are incorrect a good percentage of the time.
I've seen people leave the set-list blank in the txt file and still include it in the md5!
HELLO, IS THERE ANYBODY IN THERE?

[vanark]

the only time I add md5's to FLAC filesets is when required for upload to LMA.  they are a total waste, IMO.

They are not required for LMA upload as far as I know.  In fact, I uploaded a set the other day without either an FFP or md5 - FLACs + txt file only.  The LMA creates its own ffp anyway.

The only thing I use md5's for is when copying WAV files off of my recorder media to my hard drive.  I create an md5 on the card and copy it along with the WAV so I can make sure no corruption occurred.  Otherwise, in my opinion, md5's are not worth anything and are inferior to ffp's for the reason's mentioned in other posts.

[Craig T]

Might be true now.  In the past I tried skipping the md5's and had several uploads generate errors because I didn't include them.  Now I just do it for my LMA uploads since it only takes a few seconds.

the only time I add md5's to FLAC filesets is when required for upload to LMA.  they are a total waste, IMO.

They are not required for LMA upload as far as I know.  In fact, I uploaded a set the other day without either an FFP or md5 - FLACs + txt file only.  The LMA creates its own ffp anyway.

[acidjack]

I only create an MD5 file.  No automatic way to verify using an FFP.

-Kevin

This for me.

[justink]

i do both.  if you're sure everything in the folder is exactly how you like it, then you're good.  and it only takes two seconds to do the extra file.

[F.O.Bean]

I just do ffps now

[greenone]

Might be true now.  In the past I tried skipping the md5's and had several uploads generate errors because I didn't include them.  Now I just do it for my LMA uploads since it only takes a few seconds.

the only time I add md5's to FLAC filesets is when required for upload to LMA.  they are a total waste, IMO.

They are not required for LMA upload as far as I know.  In fact, I uploaded a set the other day without either an FFP or md5 - FLACs + txt file only.  The LMA creates its own ffp anyway.

Confirmed that they are not required - the system will generate one if you do not include one. However, the system will check your md5 if you include one, as opposed to ffps, which are not checked. They actually fail pretty frequently, often because people leave a file out of their upload...so they're good as a "packing list", so to speak.

[newplanet7]

I only create an MD5 file.  No automatic way to verify using an FFP.

-Kevin

This for me.

Why?

[acidjack]

Actually now I do a .st5 which I believe is better than either.

I don't know why I started doing .md5 only, except I think DIME requires .md5 and doesn't require .ffp, and I'm too lazy to do both.  LMA creates its own, so I don't worry about that there anyway.

quote author=newplanet7 link=topic=74162.msg1924102#msg1924102 date=1322789907]

I only create an MD5 file.  No automatic way to verify using an FFP.

-Kevin

This for me.

Why?
[/quote]

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Actually now I do a .st5 which I believe is better than either.

Why do you believe ST5 is better than FFP???  Its the same thing, look at the hash it makes...

Terry

[acidjack]

Actually now I do a .st5 which I believe is better than either.

Why do you believe ST5 is better than FFP???  Its the same thing, look at the hash it makes...

Terry

Isn't that the point - it does both FFP and MD5 function at once? 

To be honest, I don't know much, or care, about this stuff.  I mostly listen to my own masters or those of my friends and figure I know enough about the integrity of those filesets... I realize that is maybe not the best view to take w/r/t the dissemination of my stuff, but considering that most music is disseminated on crappy torrent sites in lossy formats anyway, I just can't get too exercised about it.

[vanark]

except I think DIME requires .md5 and doesn't require .ffp, and I'm too lazy to do both.

DIME does not require an md5.  I never include one when I upload.  They require a checksum be included but I can't find that requirement at the moment.

ETA: found it - they require either an md5 or FLAC fingerprint. http://wiki.dimeadozen.org/index.php/DimeTOS:Allowed_Torrents

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Actually now I do a .st5 which I believe is better than either.

Why do you believe ST5 is better than FFP???  Its the same thing, look at the hash it makes...

Terry

Isn't that the point - it does both FFP and MD5 function at once? 

Oh, my point is that FFP verification is the same as ST5 verification, that they are practically interchangeable.  I suppose there is no real difference, so in some respect, one is as good as the other...  Especially when you add in: 

To be honest, I don't know much, or care, about this stuff.  I mostly listen to my own masters or those of my friends and figure I know enough about the integrity of those filesets... I realize that is maybe not the best view to take w/r/t the dissemination of my stuff, but considering that most music is disseminated on crappy torrent sites in lossy formats anyway, I just can't get too exercised about it.

I'm about the same way.  I use FFP because that's what I learned to use years ago...  I hardly verify checksums now...

Terry

[lastubbe]

ffp's only and always.

I don't care if people change tags, text, folder names etc. 

I really am only concerned with the integrity of my original audio at the time of circulation.  Seems ffp does all I need, is simple and effective.

[cd2go]

only ffp

[F.O.Bean]

ffp's only and always.

I don't care if people change tags, text, folder names etc. 

I really am only concerned with the integrity of my original audio at the time of circulation.  Seems ffp does all I need, is simple and effective.

Well put Lenny, and I agree 100%

[NSL]

I started out doing both then realized lma does a ffp also so I switched to just md5.  Never knew that the md5's aren't required as I thought they were!  Probably wont make either now since lma will make the flac file for me.