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Offline admkrk

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differences in software
« on: December 24, 2006, 05:17:25 PM »
i've been usiing wavelab for a while now. w/ the new machine, i  thought i'd try out audition just for a change. simple tasks (or so i thought) are now seamingly imposible. i can't figure out how to simply split the file into 2 discs so i can fade in and out seamlessly. in wl5 all i had to do was pick a point, right click, select from currsor to begining (or end) of file, open a new window, and drag and drop. aply the fade and i'm done. in audition it didn't seem to work that way. i tryed to save selected, but ended up saveing 2 identical files labled d1 and d2 that were both the whole thing. i guess i could just cut the part before/after the fades, but it seems like a bunch of extra steps. it's been a while, but i think sf was the same, if not very close, as wl.

everything has it's own learning curve i guess? just voicing my frustrations for today. i woun't get into all the things that work sometimes and not others in audition. feel free to point out what i overlooked. 
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2006, 04:50:34 PM »
You had the right idea with CEP/AA:  Save Selection should create a new file with only the selected portion of the waveform in it.  IME, CEP/AA has an excellent Help file, far better than most other apps I've tried.

I've worked a LOT with Audition, a fair amount with WaveLab, and now with Samplitude SE.  While I found Audition the most intuitive, and WaveLab the least, my learning curve with Samplitude SE fell somewhere in the middle.  Audition's destructive editing eventually became too big a PITA as I started editing my files more and working with 24-bit.  Edit to correct:  the multitrack editor in Audition allows for non-destructive editing and adjusting effects order and properties, but one may only apply the effects to the entire track, not individual clips within each track.  WaveLab offers non-destructive editing, but I found it wholly unintuitive, and its linear editing (as best I could figure out, anyway) drove me nuts.  Samplitude SE's non-destructive and object-oriented editing is the bee's knees, as far as I'm concerned.

So why are these two features so important?  I think destructive v. non-destructive editing is pretty straightforward.  Destructive editing modifies the data itself.  So one must always make a backup copy of the master file first, before editing.  Okay, no biggie, it's not hard to maintain a copy of the original WAV.  But one must also save copies of any interim edits if one wants to roll back easily to a previous state.  Gets tedious and slow, after a while, not to mention it eats up HD / archiving media space.

But the real biggie is object-oriented v. linear editing.  In both WaveLab and Audition, linear editing restricts the operations one may perform / re-perform / un-do.  For example, let's say I apply three different, but consecutive edits:  <1> compress, <2> normalize, and <3> fade.  Now let's say I want to re-do the compression because I've decided I want to use a different ratio or threshold.  In order to re-do the compression in a linear editing model, I first have to un-do the fade, then un-do the normalization, then un-do the compression, then re-apply the compression (with my new settings), re-apply the normalization, and re-apply the fade.  Or, instead of un-doing all three, I have to revert back to a WAV file I saved (as an interim state, as noted above) before re-applying all three edits.  And I hope I've made notes about any edits after compression, because if I haven't, I'll need to re-determine the settings I want to use, the portion of the waveform I want to edit, etc.  Ugh.

With object-oriented editing, I can apply those same three edits - <1> compress, <2> normalize, and <3> fade - but tweak or un-do or remove any of the three at any time, independently of the others.  So in the example above, I would simply modify the compression edit with my new ratio or threshold or whatever, without having to touch the subsequent normalize and fade edits, without having to revert to previously saved states, etc.  Beauty!

It's also simplified my archiving.  I now just archive the original WAVs + the project file, since in order to re-create both the final 16- and 24-bit versions, all I have to do is simply File | Export Audio | WAV and select my format (16/44, 24/48, etc.).  No more saving interim versions of my edits in case I want to roll back to them.  No more saving the master WAV + the edited version in both 16- and 24-bit.  Just the master + the project file.

Anyway...I'm long past rambling.  I think Samplitude SE v8.3 is well worth the whopping ~$50 or so it costs.  Big thanks to Teddy for encouraging me to give it a go.   :coolguy:
« Last Edit: December 27, 2006, 01:03:54 AM by Brian Skalinder »
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Offline admkrk

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2006, 07:47:58 PM »
i might take a look at samplidude. being able to select what undo you want to do sounds pretty nice. one of my reasons for trying aa is i want to try some multi track work and i liked the way it's setup like video software. teddy also linked another program, reaper, i think it was that i was thinking about checking out.

i alredy noticed that i'm going to have to keep a closer watch on my hd mess w/ aa.  ;D  and i did manage to get just the selection saved one time. i'll wait and see how it goes after a dozen shows or so if i want to keep w/ it or not.   
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2006, 08:19:15 PM »
i might take a look at samplidude. being able to select what undo you want to do sounds pretty nice. one of my reasons for trying aa is i want to try some multi track work and i liked the way it's setup like video software.

I'm pretty ignorant about what audio editing features are useful for doing video work, but AFAICT, Samplitude does everything Audition does and more.  And FWIW, I find Samplitude and Audition more similar than either of those and WaveLab.
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Offline admkrk

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2006, 11:20:13 PM »
what i ment by video was the timeline deal and how the tracks are lined up. i don't expane myself well, but the multi track window in aa compared to the montage in wl should give you an idea of what i ment. in other words the ability to liine up the tracks w/ out superinposeing them on top of each other. 

i might take a look at samplidude. being able to select what undo you want to do sounds pretty nice. one of my reasons for trying aa is i want to try some multi track work and i liked the way it's setup like video software.

I'm pretty ignorant about what audio editing features are useful for doing video work, but AFAICT, Samplitude does everything Audition does and more.  And FWIW, I find Samplitude and Audition more similar than either of those and WaveLab.
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Offline BayTaynt3d

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2006, 01:26:57 AM »
I'm a big fan of Vegas. It's easy to overlook, but it handles any audio format no problem, does non-destructive object-based non-linear editing, handles VST plugins no problem, unlimited tracks and buses (there might be a limit, but I don't think so, maybe 99), and you can even drop video right on the same timeline too, including native HDV support.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2006, 01:46:58 AM »
i might take a look at samplidude. being able to select what undo you want to do sounds pretty nice. one of my reasons for trying aa is i want to try some multi track work and i liked the way it's setup like video software.

FWIW, Audition's multitrack view allows for realtime, non-destructive effects (I mis-wrote earlier) that you can undo in any order, but one must apply the effect to the entire track, not specific clips or sections within the track (unlike Samplitude).

what i ment by video was the timeline deal and how the tracks are lined up. i don't expane myself well, but the multi track window in aa compared to the montage in wl should give you an idea of what i ment. in other words the ability to liine up the tracks w/ out superinposeing them on top of each other.

I guess I'm not following you on lining up the tracks.  In all three apps, I line up different tracks the same way and all use a timeline to assist in lining things up (see attachments).

At any rate, I hope you find out which app works best for you, which one you find most intuitive, provides the right features and ease of use...that's what counts.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2006, 01:57:53 AM »
One last reply to add that another reason I chose Samplitude SE:  while incredibly full-featured, it's also very affordable at ~$50, allowing me to utilize the software legally and properly by owning a license, instead of using a cracked version as so many seem to do.
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Offline rodeen

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2006, 09:35:26 AM »
Did you buy it directly from Magix?
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2006, 12:07:06 PM »
Did you buy it directly from Magix?

Yup.  It's actually €49, not $.  Comes to about $65 at today's exchange rate.

http://www.samplitude.com/eng/sam/se.html

Just follow the link "Available as e-version for immediate download" to the order page.
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Offline admkrk

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2006, 04:28:13 PM »
hmmm.  didn't see a timeline in wl? i'll have to look a little closer when i get that macine running again.

btw, i'll probly never be completely satisfied with any one program.  >:D   thanks for your input though.
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Offline Carrera2

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Re: differences in software
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2007, 03:06:55 AM »
Did you buy it directly from Magix?

Yup.  It's actually €49, not $.  Comes to about $65 at today's exchange rate.

http://www.samplitude.com/eng/sam/se.html

Just follow the link "Available as e-version for immediate download" to the order page.

If purchased off of the UK site, it is charged at €49.

http://www.samplitude.com/eng/sam/se_bestellen.html

If purchased from the US site, it is charged at $49.

http://site.magix.net/english-us/home/professional/samplitude-v8-se/?version=standard

 

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