Topic: Playback Complete

[nickgregory]

alright finally got my playback setup...

Denon 2900
Arcam AVR300
Anticables speaker cables
Audio Magic Excalibur II ICs
VR-2s

so first I bought the VR-2s through the VS B-stock program...got African Hazelwood...amazing deal pricewise, shipped, they were half the new retail, and what makes them B stock is slight mismatch on the finish.  Looking at them, I can see some "finish blemishes" but nothing that stands out unless you are looking for them.  These also come with a 10 year warranty as well, and I was told that the electronics used are all the same as A stock...only difference is the finish mismatch.  Speakers shipped in these (is it velvet?) bags and were packaged fantastically by VS, double boxed.

Everything else but the anticables were used through Audiogon...and the units looked brand spanking new...I really got some incredible deals on A-gon with the condition these units are in...

So I bi amped (or is it biwired?  ran two sets of speaker cables from the Arcam, which allows me to run a full 2 ch/100W per to each speaker) the Vr-s and got to listening last night.

First the room...it is a finished attic, that is a long rectangle.  Currently I have the TV stand (where the 50" SXRD is going to go ) situated on the long wall, with the speakers on either side, which allows my seating position to be ~10 ft from the speakers.  I am considering putting the equipment on the short wall and seating behind it, but with a partially sloped ceiling on one side, I need to determine if the dimensions would allow it...will post pictures actually soon...

OK, so listening last night, broke out the discs that I am most familar with how they sound.

Studio Discs
Sheryl Crow - Globe Sessions SACD
Springsteen - Born to Run Reissue
Drive by Truckers - Dirty South
Govt Mule - The Deepest End
DMB - Crash

Live
Drive by Truckers - 11/19/05 24 bit
Connells - 12/23/06 24 bit
Govt Mule - 10/29/04
My Morning Jacket - 1/21/04

The things that stuck out the most to me...

- The seperation of the instruments.  I am used to hearing these songs, and hearing the "collective effect" of the bass/drums/guitar/horns/etc, but I can honestly say I dont think I have ever been able to hear the individual instruments, without straining to hear them...seemed like they all had their spot on the soundstage in front of me...

- the soundstage is freaking huge.  I have heard a set of the VR-4Jrs (thanks Michael) before and had an idea what to expect, but until you are playing recordings that your are intimately familiar with, it is tough to really understand what you are hearing.  I was absolutely amazed by the fact that I could close my eyes and it sounded like the sound was coming at me across the entire stage in front of me…not from two speakers.  I definitely understand the comment now of losing the speakers…

- full range speakers are an amazing thing…I don’t see any reason why I would need a sub with these.  Especially with the live recordings you get that popping bass that is tough to replicate.  Add to that the sound that these fill the room with….I am assuming that bi-wiring is helping contribute to this effect (but as I didn’t use the jumpers and single wire I don’t have a base for comparison), but the sound, even at lower volume levels really is thick and full…not at all what I am used to…especially at lower volume levels.

And this is just from 2 hours of listening last night…of course I did listen to Jungleand from 20 minutes last night, repeating it over and over …the sax solo is a thing of beauty…

Next up, I am looking at power conditioners…trying to go the used route on PS Audio or Blue Circle…but have to wait til the right thing comes up…

Will post pictures later for those interested….

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

drool...

T

[Shawn]

congrats nick. I recently put together my first nice playback system, and it has really had an effect on how I listen to music and how much i listen to music. I find myself actually doing some "critical listening" now as opposed to just throwing something on while i do something else (surf the web, clean the house, watch a game, etc...). It's really nice to have a system that makes it worth sitting down and giving your complete attention to the music. I'm sure you'll enjoy your rig for a long time to come.

[thegreatgumbino]

+T for the new toys, Nick.  I just upgraded to my first quality playback & am loving it as well.  I love that you're familiar with Crash, as that was one of the first discs I threw in.  The things I heard blew me away.  I love all the layers of sound on that album.  It was like hearing it for the first time.  I also agree that the B-stock deal on the VR-2's is a kick ass deal.  If I hadn't picked up the original VR-4's on Agon, I would have moved that route.  The cool thing as well is that they have several different finishes available right now.  When I was looking they only had the maple finish available.  The African Hazelwood is a thing of beauty IMO. As for the full range statement, I agree completely.  I couldn't imagine adding a sub to my playback, or bi-amping for that matter.  I can rattle the windows & hear my music across the street as it is!

I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on the power conditioners as well.  I need to pick one up myself.

Enjoy!

[carlbeck]

Welcome to the club guys, a nice playback system is worth it as you found out. I do miss my VR4 jr's, I should think about a pair of VR2's for cheap, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  Anyway, now you will hear what your recording, it still shocks me when I think about it that I always had a stereo but never knew what I was missing until I went up the food chain a little. It's amazing what you miss & how much a nice system adds to your enjoyment. Now both of you sit back & open up a beverage, relax & sink into the listening chair for a while.

[scervin]

post deleted needed to be moved sorry!

[nickgregory]

some pics for anyone intersted.  the first one is the one finish blemish that I can see...and the flash accentuates it...it is on the back corner...

the others show the setup, from my seating position currently, and the room.  Now, I am considering setting the whole thing up at the end of the room in front of the window (ignore the mess, still getting the room situated) so that I can have more theater type seating when I get the 50" Sony, but I am curious with the wall angle on the left side, what kind of reflection issues can I plan on having?  And what can I do to combat any that I do?

Right now I am sitting 8" from the TV/Playback position, I wouldnt mind to get a bit farther back, but to do that I have to go longways...any thoughts?

[carlbeck]

Well try to keep a triangle basically, if you want to sit further away from the speakers do not be afraid to spread them apart further. There is a factor that escapes me at the moment that is basically width times distance from the listening position. In other words your speakers look too close together 

[tfs8271]

Right now I am sitting 8" from the TV/Playback position

Wow, that room looks a lot bigger in the photos. 

So were you in the casting for the Wizard of Oz?

+t as you have given me some ideas for the next step up. I will probably start with the DVD player>speaker>Digital Amp/Reciever

[nickgregory]

Well try to keep a triangle basically, if you want to sit further away from the speakers do not be afraid to spread them apart further. There is a factor that escapes me at the moment that is basically width times distance from the listening position. In other words your speakers look too close together 

what do you think if I put the setup in the end of the room with the partially sloped ceiling above the left speaker...crazy reflections?

Right now I am sitting 8" from the TV/Playback position

Wow, that room looks a lot bigger in the photos. 

So were you in the casting for the Wizard of Oz?

+t as you have given me some ideas for the next step up. I will probably start with the DVD player>speaker>Digital Amp/Reciever

I must be missing the wizard of oz reference

as for the setup...I wanted to get to the compromise of quality 2 channel with home theater capabilities.  I had gotten good feedback from Scott Brown and Damon in the past about the Arcam stuff, and honestly I got lucky with the Arcam and Denon, both of which showed up from the seller with the plastic still protecting the LCD screen...anal bastards

[carlbeck]

I think the slope may skew the soundstage but you don't know until you try. The question is though, why do you want to sit more than 8 feet away? Does something not sound right? I think the woofer & tweater have plenty of room to integrate well at 8 feet away? I would stick with it as it is but move the speakers in or out off the wall & experiment with placement to see what it ends up sounding like.

[nickgregory]

I think the slope may skew the soundstage but you don't know until you try. The question is though, why do you want to sit more than 8 feet away? Does something not sound right? I think the woofer & tweater have plenty of room to integrate well at 8 feet away? I would stick with it as it is but move the speakers in or out off the wall & experiment with placement to see what it ends up sounding like.

only reason I was considering it was room economics, in terms of maximizing space specifically for television watching, but I am concerned as to the impact of the playback properties as I am pretty happy with the acoustics I am getting the way it is set up now...I think I will take your advice though Carl and play with it a bit more, positionally...I feel like I almost have it dialed in where it is at now

[carlbeck]

Screw room economics! I am in my basement in a half finished room jamming to some J. Giels on vinyl, as long as it sounds good who cares about what it looks like. As long as my wife stays upstairs 

[L Ron Hoover]

Nice Nick! We are making the finally making the plunge into home ownership within the next month and I'm having sort of the same dilemma. (where to put the KLF-20's) The new living room will be smaller, but now you've got my wheels spinning on turning the master bedroom into the theater/listening room. It's the entire upper level of a cape cod style house. (about twice the width of your room)  Honey, can we make one of the smaller rooms be our bedroom? Yeah sure right.

[L Ron Hoover]

Screw room economics! I am in my basement in a half finished room jamming to some J. Giels on vinyl, as long as it sounds good who cares about what it looks like. As long as my wife stays upstairs 

My angel is the centerfold!!!

[carlbeck]

Nope even better 


Open up the door bitch, this is wuba gooba with the green teeth. I think I must of, I think I must of..................


Must of got lost

[tfs8271]

Nick,

8" vs 8'

Perhaps your 8" is sitting 8' from your TV. 

Sorry, trying to be funny.

Might want to throw down some Eddie Money when that J. Giels gets old.

[nickgregory]

Screw room economics! I am in my basement in a half finished room jamming to some J. Giels on vinyl, as long as it sounds good who cares about what it looks like. As long as my wife stays upstairs 

good point...as long as I can get the hockey playoffs in HD while I listen to some tunes, so be it

Nice Nick! We are making the finally making the plunge into home ownership within the next month and I'm having sort of the same dilemma. (where to put the KLF-20's) The new living room will be smaller, but now you've got my wheels spinning on turning the master bedroom into the theater/listening room. It's the entire upper level of a cape cod style house. (about twice the width of your room)  Honey, can we make one of the smaller rooms be our bedroom? Yeah sure right.

good luck...I convinced her before we bought this house that the finished attic would be our entertainment room (translate, playback and tv )...which is a good thing, because otherwise she would have found something else we could do with the room

Nick,

8" vs 8'

Perhaps your 8" is sitting 8' from your TV. 

Sorry, trying to be funny.

Might want to throw down some Eddie Money when that J. Giels gets old.

now I get it...yes I am slow at times

[Jamos]

Well try to keep a triangle basically, if you want to sit further away from the speakers do not be afraid to spread them apart further. There is a factor that escapes me at the moment that is basically width times distance from the listening position. In other words your speakers look too close together 

I'm pretty sure that the formula is to spread your cabinets 1.5 times the distance away from the center that you will be sitting.  In other words, if you sit 8' back from the center point between the speakers, there should be 12' between the L & R for optimal imaging.

I bet those things sound really nice!
 
edit: If you want good power conditioning that really works check out http://www.etasys.com/

[carlbeck]

Yep, that is it exactly, 1.5 times.

[nickgregory]

Well try to keep a triangle basically, if you want to sit further away from the speakers do not be afraid to spread them apart further. There is a factor that escapes me at the moment that is basically width times distance from the listening position. In other words your speakers look too close together 

I'm pretty sure that the formula is to spread your cabinets 1.5 times the distance away from the center that you will be sitting.  In other words, if you sit 8' back from the center point between the speakers, there should be 12' between the L & R for optimal imaging.

I bet those things sound really nice!
 
edit: If you want good power conditioning that really works check out http://www.etasys.com/

cool...will have to play with the spread this weekend...thanks!

and I will check out the eta stuff!

[Nick's Picks]

that J Giles album kicks ass doesn't it?
whamma Jamma!

[PH]

Homemade bass traps! Especially with the sloped walls in such proximity, some good cheap 2x4 boxes with heavy duty fabric weave (such as old couch fabric) stretched over the frames and stuffed with audio foam works wonders for tuning a room. It's especially important for the sides of your listening area. If you built 4 of them, 2 for the back and 2 for the sides, you would be set and virtually reflection free. An old futon hung up behind your tv and speaker position would work really well too. If you deaden the room, you will really open up the sound of your gear.

Looks good and I bet it sounds even better. Nice work Nick!
Cheers, PHil

[scb]

told you you wouldn't need a sub!  bi-amping the vr2s makes them monsters.  i'm sure you're in heaven up there

[som]

Woohoo!

[nickgregory]

told you you wouldn't need a sub!  bi-amping the vr2s makes them monsters.  i'm sure you're in heaven up there

I am though I think my wife may be regretting agreeing that I could make that "my room"   

[Nick's Picks]

buy her a nice sewing machine and call it even.

[nickgregory]

buy her a nice sewing machine and call it even.

told her I bought her a nice fridge and washer dryer when we bought the new house and we should be even...thankfully I am slightly faster than an 8 months pregnant woman

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

have your tried a side by side comparison between the DV45 and 2900 yet?

[nickgregory]

have your tried a side by side comparison between the DV45 and 2900 yet?

not yet...but in terms of first appearance...they both play everything I have thrown at them...but the Denon is built like a freaking tank...pretty damn heavy compared to the Pioneer...which is a good thing for transports...will do a head to head when I get the TV into the room as well so I can do a full blown head to head...

[tfs8271]

What's the difference between the 2900 and the 2910?

[scervin]

What's the difference between the 2900 and the 2910?

The 2910 is a step back in the audio, but a step forward in the video department.  The 2910 adds Faroudja based upconversion (yields macroblocking) via the HDMI connection.  The build quality of the 2900 is also better.

If you are looking for a good universal player for audio only I'd say the 2900 is your best bet.  If you are looking for quality video AND audio you must jump to the 3910.  I'd even say get the new 3930 due to the better macroblocking free video upconversion chip.

[Kyle]

Nice Nick! We are making the finally making the plunge into home ownership within the next month and I'm having sort of the same dilemma. (where to put the KLF-20's) The new living room will be smaller, but now you've got my wheels spinning on turning the master bedroom into the theater/listening room. It's the entire upper level of a cape cod style house. (about twice the width of your room)  Honey, can we make one of the smaller rooms be our bedroom? Yeah sure right.

+T on the KLF-20s - I run the 10's and wish I had them. One of these days...

When I get them the 10's will be my surrounds - strictly for the DSOTM 24bit Quad mix of course
[/hijack] sorry about that.....

[nickgregory]

Alright, finally got everything setup and finalized (will post some pics later tonight if anyone is interested).  Same setup as before audio wise, with the addition of an Audio Magic Stealth Mini Power Conditioner...and the more I listen the more amazed I am at how much depth that the VR-2s give to music that I thought I had heard before.  I have been playing studio recordings that I thought sounded great before and been amazed at how much more full the sound is.  Then I play the same recording on my downstairs playback (pioneer elite DV-45a->3000ES->Tannoy M3s, and the same recording sounds lifeless...and this isnt a knock on the tannoys as I think they sound good, but more of a positive thought on how amazing the VR-2s sound.  And by biamping these speakers (200W per speaker right now), I find that I can listen at much lower volumes than I had in the past and still enjoy a big soundstage and the clarity I get at higher volumes...

At the price for B-Stock VR-2s, I am not sure there is a better value out there...my next step will be to spike these as I am still dialing in the image and since I dont have as much opportunity to go higher volumes than I have in the past with Abby in the house, I am going to put it off until I am sure I have them perfectly spaced...

have your tried a side by side comparison between the DV45 and 2900 yet?

I just got around to this this week and the results were mixed.  From an Audio perspective, I preferred the 2900, both feeding the Arcam digitally and analog.  Not exactly sure what I am hearing, but the difference is there...it sounds on the surface to be a little more clarity, especially on the high notes...

from a video perspective though, the pioneer wins hands down.  The 2900 pic is silightly grainy and not as sharp as the pioneer pic is.  This is being viewed on my Sony 50" SXRD set. 

So I moved the pioneer back downstairs to the family room and I think I am going to order the oppo unit in the next few weeks to give that a shot for video...will post as I get more results...

next step is I want to get a center and two surround speakers.  I had thought about the VR-1s as surrounds, but I just dont have enough space in the room..so I am really looking for something smaller...maybe even wall mountable for the surrounds...I know B&W makes some units in this space...so any input is appreciated.  Also looking for input on the center channel as well.  Would like to get something that can use a full 100W and not sound thin.  I had looked at the VS unit, but I have read mixed reviews about how it sounds...Given the fact that my music listening is pretty much completely 2 channel, I am not as concerned about mixing brands...really interested in quality..

appreciate any and all input as always!

[Nick's Picks]

awesome Nick.
Albert makes some great speakers eh?  those VR2s are super deals at the B stock price.  Wish I could still get deals w/them.

[scervin]

next step is I want to get a center and two surround speakers.  I had thought about the VR-1s as surrounds, but I just dont have enough space in the room..so I am really looking for something smaller...maybe even wall mountable for the surrounds...I know B&W makes some units in this space...so any input is appreciated.  Also looking for input on the center channel as well.  Would like to get something that can use a full 100W and not sound thin.  I had looked at the VS unit, but I have read mixed reviews about how it sounds...Given the fact that my music listening is pretty much completely 2 channel, I am not as concerned about mixing brands...really interested in quality..

appreciate any and all input as always!

Nick,

Glad to hear everything is sounding good!  No surprise to me in your DVD comparo results.  On to that center channel....

I would stick with a VS unit.  I understand that you are mainly 2 channel, but I've heard systems where the front stage wasn't matched and it sounded like chit.  The LCR-15 does sound a little thin, but last I checked the LCR-35 was $2K+.

For the surrounds it you can just about get anything.

Glad to hear you like the Stealth mini.  Iwas going to try the Stealth XXX, but ended up getting a PS Audio Quintet instead.  Really wanted to keep analog and digital on different circuits, but I'm not sure I could tell the difference if it came to it.  Once I get a feel for what it does to the system, I'm sending it off to a guy to measure how much filtering it really does.

Scott

[nickgregory]

Nick,

Glad to hear everything is sounding good!  No surprise to me in your DVD comparo results.  On to that center channel....

I would stick with a VS unit.  I understand that you are mainly 2 channel, but I've heard systems where the front stage wasn't matched and it sounded like chit.  The LCR-15 does sound a little thin, but last I checked the LCR-35 was $2K+.

yeah, the pricing was partly what was driving me to other Center options...but keeping the front stage consistent makes sense...will have to keep my eyes open for a LCR-15

For the surrounds it you can just about get anything.

Cool...this is what I though, but wanted a second opinion before I went to far down this path

Glad to hear you like the Stealth mini.  Iwas going to try the Stealth XXX, but ended up getting a PS Audio Quintet instead.  Really wanted to keep analog and digital on different circuits, but I'm not sure I could tell the difference if it came to it.  Once I get a feel for what it does to the system, I'm sending it off to a guy to measure how much filtering it really does.

Yeah, I didnt have enough experience with my system to know what difference it actually ended up making...especially since the sound stage with the VR-2s was already huge.  That said, before I could hear a slight buzz in the speakers at high volumes, now it is totally black...so I at least know that is a benefit.

I am thinking about getting the ps audio duet for the tv and sat receiver though...as I currently have them both running into a monster stage 1 outlet strip currently...

Would definitely be interested to hear your end results on filtering and the effect....I believe that it has an effect, at least from a conceptual view....just like more solid results than "conceptually it does "

awesome Nick.
Albert makes some great speakers eh?  those VR2s are super deals at the B stock price.  Wish I could still get deals w/them.

he really does.  I am amazed at what I hear when I listen to these.  I listened to a fair amount of music through B&Ws at the local audiophile store, and while I liked those quite a bit...I think the VRs have them beat when it comes to producing a wide soundstage...

[scervin]

Just noticed VSA's new center the Visiun or something???   $5K!!!!! 

[Jammin72]

Speaker width and listening distance vary from speaker to speaker just like recommended toe-in.

Start with an equilateral triangle and work your way closer until the soundstage is as wide as you like it without loosing the center.

The folks at VonSchweikert should be able to give you a recommendation.


The only issue I can see with your current listening position is that you're going to be dealing with an awful lot of reflections front to back.  I would hang a tapestry or curtain behind you and behind your speakers as mentioned earlier. Your head is against the wall so you're going to hear late reflections pretty clearly.

I would try re-orienting one day for giggles.  I've got my setup in a room similar and found the longway setup to be more open.  Of course I haven't done the wall treatments yet...    :slacker:  (Sek'd Soundcard->STR-DA3000ES->TAO Research Separates (Dynaudio Drivers with Custom Crossovers) )



Have fun with the new setup

[Jammin72]

PS...


Could you tell from the Pics that I'm currently listening to stober's 3-30-07 Panic pull!

 

[nickgregory]

thanks for the input jammin!  Actually I am enjoying playing with the setup...seems I think I got it, then I toe them in a bit or move them out and it sounds even better...pretty entertaining process though my wife thinks I am whacked...

for those interested some final pics...a couple from both sides of my setup, one from my sitting position, and lastly my newest acquisition

[thegreatgumbino]

thanks for the input jammin!  Actually I am enjoying playing with the setup...seems I think I got it, then I toe them in a bit or move them out and it sounds even better...pretty entertaining process though my wife thinks I am whacked...

I haven't gotten mine dialed in yet.  I haven't wanted to mess with running back & forth between moving them both myself & listening.  I need to get some buddies over to move the speakers so I can stay put.  I haven't asked the wife to help for fear of a divorce 

[nickgregory]

thanks for the input jammin!  Actually I am enjoying playing with the setup...seems I think I got it, then I toe them in a bit or move them out and it sounds even better...pretty entertaining process though my wife thinks I am whacked...

I haven't gotten mine dialed in yet.  I haven't wanted to mess with running back & forth between moving them both myself & listening.  I need to get some buddies over to move the speakers so I can stay put.  I haven't asked the wife to help for fear of a divorce 

yeah, see I tried that...she rolled her eyes and left the room

[thegreatgumbino]

thanks for the input jammin!  Actually I am enjoying playing with the setup...seems I think I got it, then I toe them in a bit or move them out and it sounds even better...pretty entertaining process though my wife thinks I am whacked...

I haven't gotten mine dialed in yet.  I haven't wanted to mess with running back & forth between moving them both myself & listening.  I need to get some buddies over to move the speakers so I can stay put.  I haven't asked the wife to help for fear of a divorce 

yeah, see I tried that...she rolled her eyes and left the room

I thought about it for about 2 minutes when I was fooling around with them, but mine are 150 lbs a piece.  I think the wife would kill me after the second move.   

[PH]

hey Nick, maybe try using owens-corning 703 panels on the ceilings and walls to virtually eliminate the unwanted reflections in your setup. Looks very nice.
I made my own acoustic panels using 703 and 1x4's, covered it with cool fabric and attached to walls and ceilings. Looks nice and works really well.
Bass traps in the corners are especially helpful. Would post pics but typing from the laptop.
Good luck, Phil

[KLowe]

who cares about what it looks like. As long as my wife stays upstairs 

Holy Crap.  I just saw this.  Best line on TS.com ever?  You have just described my basement (ie. happyland) to a +T

[nickgregory]

hey Nick, maybe try using owens-corning 703 panels on the ceilings and walls to virtually eliminate the unwanted reflections in your setup. Looks very nice.
I made my own acoustic panels using 703 and 1x4's, covered it with cool fabric and attached to walls and ceilings. Looks nice and works really well.
Bass traps in the corners are especially helpful. Would post pics but typing from the laptop.
Good luck, Phil

Thanks Phil, I need to look into that...homebrew is definitely the way I want to go!

[Nick's Picks]

here comes a plug...

Hydra-Audio is making an echo buster panel called "dead-ends". 
same concept, stuffed w/acoustic insulation for sound dispersion/absorption.  The cool part is the fabric over it (stretched rayon) is tie-dyed to suite your taste.
:-)
i'm still working on prototypes.   

[Jammin72]

Dig the Cup in the Listening room... it's do or die for the 'Canes right now.


Look forward to seeing the Result of the New Tie-Dyed panels!

[nickgregory]

Dig the Cup in the Listening room... it's do or die for the 'Canes right now.

tell me about it...either way, love playoff hockey!

[scervin]

Dig the Cup in the Listening room... it's do or die for the 'Canes right now.

tell me about it...either way, love playoff hockey!

'Canes are done   

Wings just need to get healthy!

[scervin]

hey Nick, maybe try using owens-corning 703 panels on the ceilings and walls to virtually eliminate the unwanted reflections in your setup. Looks very nice.
I made my own acoustic panels using 703 and 1x4's, covered it with cool fabric and attached to walls and ceilings. Looks nice and works really well.
Bass traps in the corners are especially helpful. Would post pics but typing from the laptop.
Good luck, Phil

Thanks Phil, I need to look into that...homebrew is definitely the way I want to go!

OC 703 or 705 is the way to go.  Cover in burlap and GOM and it will sound very different.  You can find it online, but your local insulation guy shoulld have it as well.  They might make you buy an entire box though.

[PH]

Here in Nashville, I found the 703 panels at one place only, it was hard to find locally. $103 per case of 12, two inch panels 2'x4'.
You can order them online from    www.atsacoustics.com
Havn't tried ATS so cant vouch for service.

The 703 is what many of the DIY studios here in Nashville are using. It's much better than foam and traps freqs all the way down to 100 hz if you double it up.
Placing it in the corners of the room will make the most dramatic impact immediately. You will all of sudden notice the bass really tighten up.
I like the stretched rayon idea, but I used soft burlap. Got it at fabric store for $2 yard. I made 15 panels for less than $300 and an entire weekend labor though.
I'll get some pics posted of my studio control room with the panels soon

[nickgregory]

'Canes are done  

Yup...guess that means playoff ticket money in the pocket to use for the rest of the surround setup!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

The cool part is the fabric over it (stretched rayon) is tie-dyed to suite your taste.

WAF meter just hit the peg.

If you cant find the owings panels, knauf makes the same thing.

[carlbeck]

The cool part is the fabric over it (stretched rayon) is tie-dyed to suite your taste.

WAF meter just hit the peg.

Yep, not many wives are going to dig that in the living room 

[nickgregory]

The cool part is the fabric over it (stretched rayon) is tie-dyed to suite your taste.

WAF meter just hit the peg.

If you cant find the owings panels, knauf makes the same thing.

The cool part is the fabric over it (stretched rayon) is tie-dyed to suite your taste.

WAF meter just hit the peg.

Yep, not many wives are going to dig that in the living room 

thankfully this would be in the third floor...but I have pushed my luck already...and the WAF is already stretched a bit....thinking I may have to wait a couple of months...then one day just sneak it in up there and see if she notices

but Michael is dead on...tie dye would look cool, but would equal divorce court

btw, Michael, you ever use the contraptions you created or did Amy relegate them to the garage?

[Nick's Picks]

aaahhh, but you're wrong.

you are thinking "tie dye, bright as fuck...etc etc", but it doestn' have to be that way.  It can be muted, random..., any color or combination of shades to match.
an easy WAF sell...FAR superior than a beige rectangle on your wall.

[carlbeck]

aaahhh, but you're wrong.

you are thinking "tie dye, bright as fuck...etc etc", but it doestn' have to be that way.  It can be muted, random..., any color or combination of shades to match.
an easy WAF sell...FAR superior than a beige rectangle on your wall.

As much as I like to make fun of him, Nick's dyes are seriously second to none.

[nickgregory]

aaahhh, but you're wrong.

you are thinking "tie dye, bright as fuck...etc etc", but it doestn' have to be that way.  It can be muted, random..., any color or combination of shades to match.
an easy WAF sell...FAR superior than a beige rectangle on your wall.

your asusming i could get the beige rectangle approved

seriously, will be interested to see your prototypes

[Nick's Picks]

pictures soon....
I have the material, just need to find some good insulation that will be affordable.  I want these to be as inexpensive as possible.  I'm going to seek out that corning stuff, and the other suggestions and see if I can score it locally.  I bet I can.  large building supply demands around these parts.

[scervin]

pictures soon....
I have the material, just need to find some good insulation that will be affordable.  I want these to be as inexpensive as possible.  I'm going to seek out that corning stuff, and the other suggestions and see if I can score it locally.  I bet I can.  large building supply demands around these parts.

Owens Corning, Knauf, Linacoustic, etc.  Just make sure the acoustic properties are the same.  Also, diffusion and absorbtion are different animals.  You may not want both in the same panel, but then again maybe you do.