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Offline Girlygirl

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Please Help
« on: July 13, 2007, 10:35:05 PM »
I am hoping many of you can recommend new gear that would meet the requirements listed below. Please excuse my lack of terminology/knowledge and I would appreciate if you could respond in non-code like language. I have been recording for years and have yet to really be successful. My most recent attempt was a Sony Minidisc with external Sony Mic that I was unable to transfer from the disc to my computer and now have a bunch of minidisks that are mostly useless. Anyway, I want to make the leap and get more serious and am willing to spend approximately $2,000.00 on equipment. Below is a short list that might help in knowing what would best meet my needs. Feel free to ask questions for clarification. You might need to ask me a ton of questions to get the best match for me, but this is basically my situation.
1.   I need something that can be connected to my computer, put on my itunes, and also be able to be copied to a cd easily.
2.   I often travel to shows and would need to have a recorder that uses batteries, or can record about 3 ½ - 4 hours a night on a charge.
3.   The band I record most is Indigo Girls so being stealth is not a huge concern because they have an open taping policy.
4.   Sound Great!

Thanks for any and all help. I look forward to hearing your recommendations.

Offline MSTaper

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 10:46:20 PM »
Wish I could help you out, but I'm just getting started myself.

Just wait, there will be plenty of experienced tapers ready to point you in the right direction.

But from what I've gathered, you will be able to get a fine system for two grand. I don't think the equipment's the issue, it's learning how to get the most out of it!

Good luck and have fun. russ3523
Church Audio CA-11, Avantone CK-1
Edirol UA-5
Edirol R-09, Fostex FR-2LE
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Offline StuStu

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 11:03:55 PM »
With a $2k budget, there are plenty of options. Without trying to respond in any code-like lingo  :); what are you after big picture wise? Do you want a cd quality recording? Better? Are you more concerned with iTunes/mp3 compatibility? There are plenty of recorders that will run well beyond 3-4 hours. If you could explain what type of playback/medium you plan on listening to your recordings, that might help the people here better understand your inquiry.     
MK5, MK8, MK41, KM184D, CK77, B3 ---CMD 2U XT, KC5, KCY, AKI---KCY Tinybox, Ugly BB---AETA 4MinX, PMD661 MKII, R-26, M-10, MR-1

Offline Girlygirl

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 09:28:55 AM »
As far as the big picture I want to have cd quality recordings that I can share with others by buring copies. It would be nice to have the recordings on itunes as well. I forgot to mention I need something that is user friendly and not huge. At some places I can put the recorder on a table while others venues don't offer that kind of set-up. Please ask away with the questions! I also forgot to mention that I want something that will last many years.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 09:57:39 AM by Girlygirl »

Offline jackmf

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 12:20:57 PM »
You can get a nice set-up for that amount of money. I would consider getting a modded Fostex FR2LE through either Busman (who you can find via the retail section of this forum) or Oade Brothers Audio (find on web). The modification that either of these outfits do will allow you to make nice sounding recordings, very nice in fact. For microphones, perhaps something like a Studio Projects C-4 microphone kit, this would give you a good bit of flexability and a decent sound. Add a couple of 4 gig compact flash memory cards and a manfrotto 3336 microphone stand plus some decent cables and a storage solution. All this would put you up to about $1500 or so, new.

Please don't run out and buy this stuff today, over the next few days you'll get other recommendations that involve using used equipment to stretch you dollar, other recomendations for using external pre-amps and analog to digital converters to increase the amount of money you can spend on microphones and other options.

Another recommnedation I have is to go to a couple of shows that are attended and recorded by experienced tapers. This way you can ask questions about microphone placement techniques (please don't follow the ones in the thread about etree and moderators changing text files  ;) ) and other important field recording nuggetts. Tapers are usually very helpful to people trying to improve their recordings. I've been recording off and on since the early eighties and still learn something every time. Of course, I'll often buy a beverage or two.




Busman Audio BSC1>Busman HD-P2 (for sale) or PMD661

Offline Girlygirl

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2007, 06:42:29 PM »
Thanks jackmf! I am not in a huge hurry but do want to purchase soon. I am going to do an eight show run in August and would like to be ready for that. I will research your recommendations.

Offline powermonkey

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 06:43:59 PM »
2k is plenty to get a really nice rig... the biggest problem you might have is deciding what kit to get! As has been said already in this thread, you've come to the right place to ask for advice, there is soooo much experience here that you're bound to get a good result.

One thing I'd say is that whenever folks point out particular equipment, recorders, preamps, mics, etc, check out the Live Music Archive (www.archive.org) to listen to shows recorded with that particular gear. Got to be the best way to check gear out.

Also, it might be a bit of a pain to do it in real time, but you can easily transfer old minidiscs to digital by just plugging into the line-in on your PC, and using Audacity (or any other multitrack recording software). From there you can very easily do any post-production you need, and track out for CDs and iPod.

Hope that helps.
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My live recordings.... HERE:

https://www.facebook.com/Liverecordings1

and/or

https://soundcloud.com/liverecordings-1

Offline Girlygirl

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 07:04:59 PM »
Thanks powermonkey. At this point I don't think I will spend the time and effort converting the minidiscs. The sound quality was poor at best.

Please keep those recommendations comming! :D

nameloc01

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2007, 07:51:59 PM »
get a bunch of live recordings and go through and listen to which ones sound the best to you,alot of times they will have something in common,and alot of times this will be certain gear.that may help lead you in YOUR right direction.go from there,good luck!!!

kskreider

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 08:28:27 PM »
You are going to get a lot of different opinions.  Particularly about the big ticket items like mics, pre, a>d and recorder.

In my opinion your weakest link is mics.  You could start off with just a recorder and patch to see what you REALLY like.  I would suggest going over to archive.org and listening to a bunch of different mic types.  Particularly ones where there are multiple sources from the same show.

Here are some suggestions with estimates that would keep you around the $2000 range and get you a very nice rig.

Mics:
Neumann 184 kit: $900

Recorder:
Iriver IHP20 :$120

Pre-Amp:
Lunatec V2: $750

A>D:
Sony SBM-1: $250

Don't forget about power, cables, stand, clamp, bar, shockmounts, and a bag.

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 09:26:06 PM »
LOTS of options at that price point.  So many, in fact, it's tough to capture them all (and I'm sure others will chime in,too):

Mics

I'm with DSJ in that the mics are the weakest link, i.e. the most important decision.  Listening to lots of recordings on LMA helps, but can only teach you so much, due to the huge number of variables:  mic placement, mic configuration, venue acoustics, PA mix, stage mix, crowd, backend gear (pre, ADC), etc., etc.  Still worth poking around on LMA, it may help you get to a short-list.  At that point, I'd say just go with one and if you want to change your sound, sell and buy again (see below note on used gear).

Personally, I think large diaphragm mics sound good for amplified acoustic music.  But they're a bit bulkier and have a very different sound from small diaphragm mics - some people love 'em, some don't.  They also often provide multiple patterns (omni, cardioid, hypercardioid, figure-8) which offers flexibility to tailor your pickup pattern to your recording situation, whereas most small diaphragm mics are fixed pattern (not switchable) or require purchasing / changing the mic caps to change patterns.

I've recorded IG once or twice, and I'm tempted to recommend hypers due to the generally loud (not obnoxious, usually singing) crowd and at least partially acoustic band (usually not cranked out of the PA as loud as all electric, IME).  Just something to consider.

Peluso CEMC-6 stereo kit with cardioid caps  |  ~$800 new, omni and hypers also available for future flexibility
Neumann KM184  |  ~$900, fixed cardioid
Josephson C42  |  $750 used, fixed cardioid other caps available for future flexibility
Audio Technica 4050  |  ~$850 used, multiple patterns, large diaphragm
AKG 481 (i.e. C480B bodies + CK61 cardioid caps)  |  ~$900, other caps available
ADK A51TL  |  ~$750 new, multiple patterns, large diaphragm
AKG 391 (i.e. SE300 bodies + CK91 caps)  |  ~$800 used with active cables (a few hundred less without), other caps available


All-in-one Recorders

Tascam HD-P2  |  ~$800 stock,  new
Marantz PMD-671  |  ~$750 stock, new
Fostex FR2LE  |  ~$600 stock, new

I recommend all-in-one recorders because they're easy to use, power, and have become much more cost effective the last year or so.  As your sonic preferences and/or needs change, there's always the option to <1> have any of the above units modded by Cascade Media / Chris Busman or Oade Bros (unit must be originally purchased from them, usually) to improve/change the sound, or <2> move to some combination of separate preamp / ADC / recorder.


Media

4GB / 8GB CF card(s)  |  ~$40-$100 new

Great deals on media pop up all the time online, and prices continue to drop swiftly.


Miscellaneous

Set aside ~$200 of your budget for mic stand, cables, stereo bar, shockmounts, etc.


Final Thoughts

At any rate, you have loads of options both new and here in the TS Yard Sale.  The beauty of used gear, of course, is you can buy it, try it, and if you want to go in a different direction basically get your money back instead of taking a 10-20% depreciation hit right away.  That said, there's obviously some risk involved in buying used gear online.  Many of us know each other here, so asking for references if you're uneasy may help set your mind at ease, and effective and constant communication and documentation (see the purchase agreement in the YS) helps mitigate risk.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 01:42:13 AM by Brian Skalinder »
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline TNJazz

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2007, 10:02:32 PM »
I would not recommend a modded unit at all due to their generally abysmal resale value.  Modded units will not sell anywhere but in this forum, unfortunately.  So if you decide to get out of the game you'll take a much bigger hit to sell the recorder.

A rig that can be put together for between $1700 and $2000, is simple to use, will run for 3-4 hours on 8 rechargeable AA batteries and will be ahead of the game even a year from now?

mics:  beyerdynamic MC930

recorder:  Korg MR-1000

voila.
Check out my band!  --> http://www.ninjadynamite.com

Offline Gizby

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2007, 01:14:08 AM »
Josephson C42  |  $750 used, other caps available for future flexibility
Unless I'm wrong, the C42s are fixed cardioid mics.
Mics: DSP mod Oktava MK012s, CAD E100S (2), Studio Projects C4s, SP-CMC-2, Polsen OLM-20
Preamps/BB: Sound Devices MixPre, SP-SPSB-1
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Tascam DR‑05
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 01:43:04 AM »
Unless I'm wrong, the C42s are fixed cardioid mics.

You're right - thanks for the correction.  Original post updated.  :)
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline Girlygirl

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Re: Please Help
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2007, 01:22:59 PM »
Ok...could you please explain what a modded unit is?

Also as far as mics I would prefer something small that could sometimes be clipped on a hat or something. I had looked into Core Sound years ago but never bought any. Are any of those a good choice?

I like the Fostex FR2LE unit because it comes all as a mobile recording kit. Are the mics that come with it poor quality?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fostex-Fostex-FR2LE-Mobile-Recording-Kit?sku=241508&src=3WBZ4DS

 

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