Author Topic: Building mics (Read 11986 times)

travelinbeat · « **on:** September 04, 2007, 01:24:20 PM »

I've finally decided to undertake the task of learning how to build mics. I am going on the most helpful directions I've been able to find, http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=11254 , but I am having some slight difficulty in finding the heat shrinkable tubing. I am wondering if anyone here might be able to set me up with a link to that stuff and / or give me any input as to a) whether there are any changes you would make to this 'recipe', b) whether you would recommend getting the TS-60a omni's from here, and c) where I should get cable from (Radioshack perhaps?). I am not at all electronically inclined, so any input is really appreciated!!!

PS: Would I need to make a battery box for this? If so, how do these directions look to you?

Thanks guys!!

Church-Audio · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2007, 01:39:26 PM »

Quote from: travelinbeat on September 04, 2007, 01:24:20 PM

I've finally decided to undertake the task of learning how to build mics. I am going on the most helpful directions I've been able to find, http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=11254 , but I am having some slight difficulty in finding the heat shrinkable tubing. I am wondering if anyone here might be able to set me up with a link to that stuff and / or give me any input as to a) whether there are any changes you would make to this 'recipe', b) whether you would recommend getting the TS-60a omni's from here, and c) where I should get cable from (Radioshack perhaps?). I am not at all electronically inclined, so any input is really appreciated!!!

PS: Would I need to make a battery box for this? If so, how do these directions look to you?

Thanks guys!!

Go to www.btx.com they sell the cable and the heat shrink you need to get started. You can get some nice panasonic omni caps from www.digikey.com You can do a Google for linkwitz mod here is a link to it this is how you can modify your panasonic caps to handle higher spl. A battery box is a good idea and there are more then a few threads here that show you how to do it properly You will need some nice 10uf caps Mylar or polypropylene and some 10k resistors metal film 1% you can get 3.5 mm jacks from digikey set up an account with both companies I mentioned and get them to send you there catalogs. Here is the link to the linkwitz mod.http://www.mp3forkidz.com/mic/mod.html

This link also shows you how to power the mics.. as well.. good luck and the brass tube we all use to build mics are made by k&s Engineering and you can buy them at most hobby stores. Next thing you need is a good soldering iron and make sure you buy lots of capsules because your going to burn thru a few of them. Also make sure you have plenty of patients

and remember to use something to heat sink the capsule when your soldering it I use a pair of large alligator clips to wick away the heat so the capsule does not get damaged. There is also a kit at radio shack I forget what they call it but its got some tools for soldering in it and one of the tools is a nice heat sink that also works great for soldering capsules..

Chris

travelinbeat · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2007, 02:03:27 PM »

That's exactly the sort of thing which makes no sense to me =(. Thanks for the leads Chris, I was able to locate some Panasonic WM-64K mic's which I guess look good, but I haven't been able to find the cables / heat shrinkable tubing on the other site you mentioned. This microphone-making en devour looks very very hard,

is there no relief?? I just want to do this as a hobby and maybe sell a couple at-cost to my personal friends, nothing big. Of course I'd like them to sound good, but is it really as difficult as it's looking? At this point I am stuck looking at website I can't navigate with ease and diagrams which may aswell be in Greek. Please keep the input coming, +t Chris for coming this far (and for selling me awesome mics which I love)

blindman · « **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2007, 02:23:20 PM »

speaking of soldering irons... Anyone ever use this one... the Hakko 936-12 ESD with the 907 Iron?
http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko936-12.html?gclid=CNGC8vDDo44CFQIpFQodCEvhZA

about the heat shrink... I also get mine from digikey.com for small electronics use... for making cables and larger stuff I get it from markertek... I accidently got this from digikey 2 years ago and have found it very useful for small electronic work... http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=FP-KIT-ND

It cost $15 2 years ago and has gone up $1 a year! The description doesn't say what sizes it has, but it ended up being being various 8cm long pieces from say 1mm to 10mm... and it came with a handy plastic orginizer too.

this reminds me, it's almost time to reorder.

another resource for mic building help is http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/micbuilders/

sanaka · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2007, 06:14:29 PM »

Travelinbeat:

Really understanding the whys and wherefores of the electronics is indeed difficult. Folks that have this understanding are normally called "electrical engineers." Fortunately, this understanding is not necessary in order to build mics, or other electronic doohickeys. If all the correct parts are correctly connected, the device will work. Read a lot and become able to read simple schematics, practice soldering, and you'll be on your way. Micbuilders is the awesome place if you want to build mics. Look through stuff and follow links. You'll see pictures of circuit boards populated with parts all soldered together and be able to compare those pictures with the schematics for the circuits, and things will start popping in your brain. Actually assembling something ends up way less intimidating than staring at the schematic.

The panasonic omnis are probably the best place to start - easy to get, most information available, and can make a really nice microphone.

http://www.mcmaster.com/ has approximately 7.64 kazillion items on it's website. almost every conceivable mechanical part, including probably every variety of heat shrink tube there is. And there's always http://www.heatshrink.com/

Peace,
Sanaka

illconditioned · « **Reply #5 on:** September 06, 2007, 06:56:32 PM »

Quote from: travelinbeat on September 04, 2007, 01:24:20 PM

I've finally decided to undertake the task of learning how to build mics. I am going on the most helpful directions I've been able to find, http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=11254 , but I am having some slight difficulty in finding the heat shrinkable tubing. I am wondering if anyone here might be able to set me up with a link to that stuff and / or give me any input as to a) whether there are any changes you would make to this 'recipe', b) whether you would recommend getting the TS-60a omni's from here, and c) where I should get cable from (Radioshack perhaps?). I am not at all electronically inclined, so any input is really appreciated!!!

PS: Would I need to make a battery box for this? If so, how do these directions look to you?

Thanks guys!!

+T for wanting to DIY. I suggest learning some basic electronics, though. It is all well and fine to build from a schematic (like I draw on a blackboard, lol). But if something doesn't work, you need to be able to "debug" the circuit. At least poke around with a voltmeter, measure resistances, and so on.

As another poster said, the Yahoo group "MicBuilders" is the place to start.

Richard

travelinbeat · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2007, 10:55:23 PM »

sanka and ill, thanks for the input. Perhap's I'll look in to getting "Electronics / Circuits for dummies" or something... I'll look in to that Micbuilder group too, but in the mean time do you guys have any particular books you'd recommend I do / do not read? Please keep in mind that I am an absolute novice at all of this, I don't know anything about ohms or watts or volts or currents.

Thanks guys, you're all the best =)

Church-Audio · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2007, 01:50:03 AM »

Quote from: travelinbeat on September 06, 2007, 10:55:23 PM

sanka and ill, thanks for the input. Perhap's I'll look in to getting "Electronics / Circuits for dummies" or something... I'll look in to that Micbuilder group too, but in the mean time do you guys have any particular books you'd recommend I do / do not read? Please keep in mind that I am an absolute novice at all of this, I don't know anything about ohms or watts or volts or currents.

Thanks guys, you're all the best =)

A basic electronics book would help you get a basic book on how to read schematics as well.. So you know what parts are what. When you look at someones schematic you will understand when things go.. Its not that hard and its actually alot of fun when you get into it. Just remember check your circuit twice power it up once.

And you will be fine..

Chris

sanaka · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2007, 02:55:35 AM »

The book I still (hehheh

) check back with now and again is Getting Started In Electronics, by Forrest Mims. Used to be the classic rank beginners book, and used to always be right on the shelf at RatShack, so it's worth checking there, even tho RatShack basically just hard sells cell phone these days.

Peace,
Sanaka

marksk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2008, 06:19:19 PM »

do you recommend any particular brand of caps or resistors to use? the people over at head-fi.org's diy forum seem to like black gate and nichicon. one supplier i found of black gates also carries prp resistors. i assume those are geared towards speaker builders (but i could be wrong...again)

bdasilva · « **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2008, 07:03:18 PM »

join the Yahoo group "micbuilders"

digifish_music · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2008, 05:16:16 AM »

Quote from: travelinbeat on September 04, 2007, 01:24:20 PM

I've finally decided to undertake the task of learning how to build mics. I am going on the most helpful directions I've been able to find, http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=11254 , but I am having some slight difficulty in finding the heat shrinkable tubing. I am wondering if anyone here might be able to set me up with a link to that stuff and / or give me any input as to a) whether there are any changes you would make to this 'recipe', b) whether you would recommend getting the TS-60a omni's from here, and c) where I should get cable from (Radioshack perhaps?). I am not at all electronically inclined, so any input is really appreciated!!!

PS: Would I need to make a battery box for this? If so, how do these directions look to you?

Thanks guys!!

Perhaps you need to start simpler...like this...

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,94446.0.html

digifish

HarpDoc · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2008, 02:48:40 AM »

I've built several pairs with the Panasonics using the Linkwitz mod. If you're really poor or just want to have fun, go for it. I've made lots of nice recordings. However, I recently picked up some CA-11s. They're better and I'm done with the homemade mics. First you'll ruin a bunch of the caps doing the mod (they're tiny). Then, out of the many caps you've succeeded in modding, you've got to match them for output and frequency response. They vary quite a bit on both, I'm afraid. I ran a series of tones from low to high, then recorded a bunch of the completed caps using alligator clips, then selected the ones that best matched. By the time you've done all of this, if time equals money, you're better off buying a pair of quality mics off the bat. But if you're in the the learning/hobby of it, it can be cool.

marksk · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2008, 11:30:31 AM »

Quote from: HarpDoc on March 31, 2008, 02:48:40 AM

First you'll ruin a bunch of the caps doing the mod (they're tiny). Then, out of the many caps you've succeeded in modding, you've got to match them for output and frequency response. They vary quite a bit on both, I'm afraid.

how many caps did you use before you found a pair that were closely matched?

Church-Audio · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2008, 12:52:14 PM »

Quote from: marksk on March 31, 2008, 11:30:31 AM

Quote from: HarpDoc on March 31, 2008, 02:48:40 AM
First you'll ruin a bunch of the caps doing the mod (they're tiny). Then, out of the many caps you've succeeded in modding, you've got to match them for output and frequency response. They vary quite a bit on both, I'm afraid.
how many caps did you use before you found a pair that were closely matched?

If you purchase 100 pcs from Digikey you will find 40 or so good matches. But it really does depend on your source of the capsules. I can sell you a matched pair for $10.00 I have about 1500 WM-61 capsules here at my shop.

illconditioned · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2008, 02:36:36 PM »

Quote from: Church-Audio on March 31, 2008, 12:52:14 PM

Quote from: marksk on March 31, 2008, 11:30:31 AM
Quote from: HarpDoc on March 31, 2008, 02:48:40 AM
First you'll ruin a bunch of the caps doing the mod (they're tiny). Then, out of the many caps you've succeeded in modding, you've got to match them for output and frequency response. They vary quite a bit on both, I'm afraid.
how many caps did you use before you found a pair that were closely matched?

If you purchase 100 pcs from Digikey you will find 40 or so good matches. But it really does depend on your source of the capsules. I can sell you a matched pair for $10.00 I have about 1500 WM-61 capsules here at my shop.

Very nice offer, Chris.

As I've said earlier, there is room for both DIY and vendors on this board. Nothing can beat the learning experience of DIY, but sometimes you've just got to put down the soldering iron and pick up the bottle of beer instead.

Richard

bdasilva · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2008, 05:33:01 PM »

I built many many sets of mics in my 1/8" days... Many people did.. Chris, richard... and you can make a decent recording... I recorded my only Dead show with a set. It did however delay me over a year from getting REAL mics and REAL recordings.

bdasilva · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2008, 06:23:54 PM »

I own 4 sets of his mics... I stand corrected.

digifish_music · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2008, 06:48:30 PM »

Quote from: mshilarious on March 31, 2008, 05:58:25 PM

There is no reason you can't get a REAL recording from WM61A, or sundry other capsules on the market . . .

http://www.naiant.com/images/Orchestra_MSH-1.mp3

+T That's intriguing, the stereo separation in particular, great recording, how were the mics placed and what mods if any to the capsules (if any?).

digifish

digifish_music · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2008, 01:29:14 AM »

Quote from: mshilarious on March 31, 2008, 08:39:26 PM

That's actually kind of a funny sample, because it's a mix of three spot mics in the orchestra.

That explains it! I was listening to one of the most well-defined orchestras I had ever heard from a stereo pair...except that it wasn't a stereo pair

Yes, I also found your site and read your FAQ, good stuff.

I have BTW got some great recordings from simple WM61-As soldered straight onto a mic cable with no mods (and only minimal attempt to match caps).

digifish.

marksk · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2008, 05:57:31 PM »

the wm-61s are omnis. what about for cardioids? the transound tsb-120a's look nice (http://www.jlielectronics.com/transsound/electrets/tsb-120a.htm), but people at micbuilders say they're noisy and prefer the tsb-140a. how would you make the element into something usable? would you be able to place it in a tube and make some vent holes behind the element?

total n00b here, so i'll probably embarrass myself, but i'm looking to learn.

thanks!

illconditioned · « **Reply #21 on:** April 08, 2008, 06:05:44 PM »

Quote from: marksk on April 08, 2008, 05:57:31 PM

the wm-61s are omnis. what about for cardioids? the transound tsb-120a's look nice (http://www.jlielectronics.com/transsound/electrets/tsb-120a.htm), but people at micbuilders say they're noisy and prefer the tsb-140a. how would you make the element into something usable? would you be able to place it in a tube and make some vent holes behind the element?

total n00b here, so i'll probably embarrass myself, but i'm looking to learn.

thanks!

I've got a collection of various capsules like this.
I suggest you go over to the Yahoo group "micbuilders". Much more DIY over there.
I like the tsb-140a too. They are really nice for ambient type recording, or for voice.
Not as nice sounding as AT853 or Sennheiser MKE40, though, IMO.
Some people over at Micbuiders have used them to make very cool instrument and/or vocal mics though.

Richard

marksk · « **Reply #22 on:** April 08, 2008, 11:43:05 PM »

i've been a member of micbuilders for a while and am one of the n00bies you mention. i'm starting to read it regularly and am looking at older posts. i'm making a pair of mics with a couple of capsules from Chris's offer from earlier in the thread. i'm ordering parts from digikey to make greenmachine's battery box (or one from the files section of micbuilder's, http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/micbuilders/files/Ken%27s%20stuff/) and the pre-amp that can be found at http://www.geocities.com/ferocious_1999/md/tompolk.html. i was looking at the tsb-120's for a pair of cardioids. it looks like a two wire mike, so i could use the same battery box. what are you using to mount it? can you post some pics?

marksk · « **Reply #23 on:** April 24, 2008, 10:12:57 AM »

Quote from: Church-Audio on September 04, 2007, 01:39:26 PM

This link also shows you how to power the mics.. as well.. good luck and the brass tube we all use to build mics are made by k&s Engineering and you can buy them at most hobby stores. Next thing you need is a good soldering iron and make sure you buy lots of capsules because your going to burn thru a few of them. Also make sure you have plenty of patients and remember to use something to heat sink the capsule when your soldering it I use a pair of large alligator clips to wick away the heat so the capsule does not get damaged. There is also a kit at radio shack I forget what they call it but its got some tools for soldering in it and one of the tools is a nice heat sink that also works great for soldering capsules..

i wasn't able to find brass at the hobby shop by me, but that did have aluminum. will that work?

thanks!!

Church-Audio · « **Reply #24 on:** April 24, 2008, 10:20:45 AM »

Quote from: marksk on April 24, 2008, 10:12:57 AM

Quote from: Church-Audio on September 04, 2007, 01:39:26 PM
This link also shows you how to power the mics.. as well.. good luck and the brass tube we all use to build mics are made by k&s Engineering and you can buy them at most hobby stores. Next thing you need is a good soldering iron and make sure you buy lots of capsules because your going to burn thru a few of them. Also make sure you have plenty of patients and remember to use something to heat sink the capsule when your soldering it I use a pair of large alligator clips to wick away the heat so the capsule does not get damaged. There is also a kit at radio shack I forget what they call it but its got some tools for soldering in it and one of the tools is a nice heat sink that also works great for soldering capsules..
i wasn't able to find brass at the hobby shop by me, but that did have aluminum. will that work?

thanks!!

Aluminum is fine. Its easy to work with just get a pipe cutter and your off to the races.
The only reason why I like brass is you can solder to it and maintain a good quality shield. Aluminum will act as a shield as well but not as well as brass and the ground cant be solidly connected to it. You could use conductive epoxy like I did in the good old days.. But its freaking expensive.. Another trick is to use heat shrink on the mic leads then use muffler tape on the outside of the capsule and then wedge it into the tube that way you get a better contact for ground. Also fill the back of the tubes up with 5 minute epoxy its critical you get a good seal I find that some of these mic capsules leak in the back end and putting epoxy on them actually helps the low end response because no more air is getting out of the back of the capsule. This only applies to omni capsules like the WM61.
Chris

marksk · « **Reply #25 on:** July 08, 2008, 10:44:17 AM »

i finally finished making my mics this morning.

i'm going to test them during lunch, but need a way to clip them on my glasses. i thought attaching a bobbie pin to them but i don't have enough hair for the pins to hold on to.

where's a good place to find some small clips? another thing i thought of was to use elastic to hold them onto the arms of my glasses.

thanks!

marksk · « **Reply #26 on:** July 24, 2008, 01:49:05 PM »

is anybody familiar with the primo em-135 as a capsule for cardioid mics?

http://www.primomic.com/products/em-135.htm

thanks!

marksk · « **Reply #27 on:** July 24, 2008, 02:17:59 PM »

should have said 135 above. fixed the link

Roger Gustavsson · « **Reply #28 on:** July 24, 2008, 06:14:07 PM »

Hello marksk,

Was trying to post a message in the micbuilder forum but it never went through...

I am not doing any stealth recordings. I have seen that some people want a little bass cut while reocrding via the PA system. Primo EM21 is popular among "stealthers", not that much bass drop. Look here:

http://tinyurl.com/5axps6

I am using that capsule myself. It is a part of my Nakamichi CM300 microphones. EM23 is the omni capsule. Can you get the EM21 and EM23 capsules from Primo? I could not! They just told me I need to order a larger number. I would certainly be interested to get some spare ones. Just let me know if you can get hold of them! If you want the whole microphone, it is the EMU-4535. There is also a "shotgun" available.

Roger

illconditioned · « **Reply #29 on:** July 24, 2008, 06:57:53 PM »

Quote from: Roger Gustavsson on July 24, 2008, 06:14:07 PM

Hello marksk,

Was trying to post a message in the micbuilder forum but it never went through...

I am not doing any stealth recordings. I have seen that some people want a little bass cut while reocrding via the PA system. Primo EM21 is popular among "stealthers", not that much bass drop. Look here:

http://tinyurl.com/5axps6

I am using that capsule myself. It is a part of my Nakamichi CM300 microphones. EM23 is the omni capsule. Can you get the EM21 and EM23 capsules from Primo? I could not! They just told me I need to order a larger number. I would certainly be interested to get some spare ones. Just let me know if you can get hold of them! If you want the whole microphone, it is the EMU-4535. There is also a "shotgun" available.

Roger

I asked about em23 and they are quite expensive. Something like $50 or maybe even more. Note that this is the cap *without* the FET, so you'll need that. I think there is an em68 or something like that too. I'm guessing (based on appearance and what others have said) that this is what is inside the AT822/825 mic. If so, this is a very nice capsule, nicer than the em23 imo. I really like the sound for acoustic recording. Not so much for amplified rock. The em68 comes with a fet as well, so it is ready to use. I forget the price for this, but it was somewhere around $50 each too. I was at one time considering getting four of these to build an ambisonic mic, but have moved over to omni capsules now.

Richard

marksk · « **Reply #30 on:** July 25, 2008, 12:13:57 AM »

Quote from: illconditioned on July 24, 2008, 06:57:53 PM

I asked about em23 and they are quite expensive. Something like $50 or maybe even more. Note that this is the cap *without* the FET, so you'll need that. I think there is an em68 or something like that too. I'm guessing (based on appearance and what others have said) that this is what is inside the AT822/825 mic. If so, this is a very nice capsule, nicer than the em23 imo. I really like the sound for acoustic recording. Not so much for amplified rock. The em68 comes with a fet as well, so it is ready to use. I forget the price for this, but it was somewhere around $50 each too. I was at one time considering getting four of these to build an ambisonic mic, but have moved over to omni capsules now.

Richard

the em-68 looks very nice, though i would think it's quite expensive as well.