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Offline johnw

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External power for SD 7xx
« on: January 27, 2008, 07:38:02 PM »
Looks like I'm going to Langerado and will need external power. I have one of the Sony battery widgets like in the picture below but have a couple of questions.

1) What batteries are people using to power these?
2) Can the batteries from the first question go with me on the plane?
3) Looking at the cable on the Sony widget which is the +/- wires or to make it easier on me, which wire to I connect the red to and which do I connect the black to? One wire has writing and the other has a white line. Or does it not matter?

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2008, 09:14:48 PM »
Looks like I'm going to Langerado and will need external power. I have one of the Sony battery widgets like in the picture below but have a couple of questions.

1) What batteries are people using to power these?

I copied only the first question since that's the only one I can answer.  Bean, bless his heart, made me up a really cool cable which uses this same dummy cell that you're showing in the picture for running external power for my 702.  From the dummy cell, it splits off to three of the Tamiya connectors where I'll have three 7.2V RC batteries.  I haven't bought the batteries yet, but if I buy six 3800mAH RC batteries, that should give me a good 10 - 12 hours run time for each batch of three.  That means I should have a full days worth of power with each set of batteries and can be recharging the second pack on the off day.  Course that's running the 702 with phantom...if I run my new m148 I won't be using the 702's phantom power so it might just run into next week with these RC batteries.

I'm also flying to Florida for Langerado.  So, I'm also curious about what will be allowed on the flight.  However, I'm gonna be visiting family earlier in the week, so I may have to mail the batteries down ahead of time and then have them mailed back afterwards...which would be a royal PITA, but maybe the only alternative. 

That's a good REALLY question to investigate ahead of time though.  It would totally blow if  you get to the airport and find out that they won't allow your batteries, in which case the only alternatives on the spot might be to either miss the flight or throw the batteries in the trash.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 09:28:12 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline johnw

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2008, 11:39:41 PM »
Could you post a picture of the wires going into the dummy cell? That would at least let me know how to wire the thing.

John
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2008, 12:18:49 AM »
I just got one of these bad boys...10,000 mAh's!

http://www.onlybatterypacks.com/showitem.asp?ItemID=10953.8

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2008, 07:09:55 AM »
Could you post a picture of the wires going into the dummy cell? That would at least let me know how to wire the thing.

John
OK, no problem, but I have to leave in about 15 mins for several days on a biz trip and won't be back until Thursday.  I'll post some pics then.  I'll PM you then to see if you haven't found a solution yet.

Steve

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 10:02:40 AM »
Looks like I'm going to Langerado and will need external power. I have one of the Sony battery widgets like in the picture below but have a couple of questions.

1) What batteries are people using to power these?
2) Can the batteries from the first question go with me on the plane?
3) Looking at the cable on the Sony widget which is the +/- wires or to make it easier on me, which wire to I connect the red to and which do I connect the black to? One wire has writing and the other has a white line. Or does it not matter?



Question #1:

Lots of info in the following threads:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,76738.0/all.html
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,53294.0/all.html
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,68176.0.html
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,66159.0/all.html

Question #2:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,36124.0.html
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96259.0.html

Question #2:

On the left side of the battery in the picture you attached you can see the dummy sled has a "+" and "-" on the respective sides.   The other side of your cable will be wired according to the pin out of your battery/setup.
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Offline johnw

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2008, 11:20:33 AM »
I saw that and I'm wondering if the wires correspond. In the picture the + is on the bottom as is the wire with the white stripe. The - is on the top as is the wire with the writing. So is the white striped wire the +? I just want to make sure the wires don't cross inside the dummy cell and I get it hooked up and fry my 702. Thanks!
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Offline johnw

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2008, 11:27:54 AM »
I just got one of these bad boys...10,000 mAh's!

http://www.onlybatterypacks.com/showitem.asp?ItemID=10953.8

Have you tested how long it will run a 7xx? I'm assuming 9-10 hours with phantom on. How long does it take to charge and what charger are you using?
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Offline johnw

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 11:37:51 AM »
Is it possible to make a sled out of AA batteries to run this thing? In the thread where moke ripped apart a Sony bat to make a dummy cell, there were 4 LiIOn AAs in there. Since high capacity batteries can be found at many local retailers, maybe this would be a solution. That way I could just stock up when the plane lands.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 11:52:21 AM by johnw »
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2008, 11:59:55 AM »
I saw that and I'm wondering if the wires correspond. In the picture the + is on the bottom as is the wire with the white stripe. The - is on the top as is the wire with the writing. So is the white striped wire the +? I just want to make sure the wires don't cross inside the dummy cell and I get it hooked up and fry my 702. Thanks!

If you have a continuity meter put one end in the "+" socket and the other end at the end of the corresponding wire.  Repeat for the "-".  If you don't have a continuity meter, stop & don't pass go until you run to Radio Shack and pick one up.
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2008, 07:24:36 PM »
I have not tested or charged it for that matter. I'm waiting for a cable to be prettied up for me and then sent back. Then I will charge and test a few times just to see what I get. I'm also assuming ~10 hours. Battery $75 shipped w/Tamiya connector. And bought the charger here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Universal-Smart-Charger-RC-7-2-12V-NiMH-RC-Battery_W0QQitemZ270205452836QQihZ017QQcategoryZ48618QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Cheapest I could find anyways. I've looked at the combos that are offered on some places but I figured I'd only have to carry one battery pack @~10hours instead of two battery packs @~4-5hours. The batteries in the pack are Tenergy brand, if that matters any?

Good luck with your project!

EDIT: I think, and I stress the "I think" part, the wire with the stripe is negative. But don't take my word for it!
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2008, 07:50:57 PM »
I have not tested or charged it for that matter. I'm waiting for a cable to be prettied up for me and then sent back. Then I will charge and test a few times just to see what I get. I'm also assuming ~10 hours. Battery $75 shipped w/Tamiya connector. And bought the charger here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Universal-Smart-Charger-RC-7-2-12V-NiMH-RC-Battery_W0QQitemZ270205452836QQihZ017QQcategoryZ48618QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Cheapest I could find anyways. I've looked at the combos that are offered on some places but I figured I'd only have to carry one battery pack @~10hours instead of two battery packs @~4-5hours. The batteries in the pack are Tenergy brand, if that matters any?

Good luck with your project!

EDIT: I think, and I stress the "I think" part, the wire with the stripe is negative. But don't take my word for it!

Thanks! I think the wire with the strip is negative as well, but I'll test it with a continuity meter as greatgumbo suggested.
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2008, 09:24:15 PM »
please do not pass go w/o testing w/ a multimeter.  If i remember correctly the wire is tied in a knot as a privative(yet common) strain relief.   There may also be a capacitor in there too, i removed it.
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 09:48:44 PM »
I just got one of these bad boys...10,000 mAh's!

http://www.onlybatterypacks.com/showitem.asp?ItemID=10953.8



Very nice 70 watt bundle of power.   If deck draws 7 watts, then this pack good for ~10 hours running time.



Designed a real 'bad boy' 12 D cell power sled for SD decks that's surprising light weight. 

Filled with regular heavy duty Alkaline D cell, and you've got a 250 watt super capacity pack, but weighing all of 4 pounds and running same 7 watt deck for 35+ hours!  Great for rural festivals and remote expeditions where heavy batteries, recharging/swapping batteries is best avoided with highly reliable alkaline.   Renewal time: 2-3 minutes to install fresh cells.

If instead wanting a rechargeable pack, then loading 12 same NiMH D cell as in 70 watt pack gives lower capacity 150 watts, heavier weight than alkaline 250 watts, and with 7 watt deck, running time expected is ~20 hours, with recharge time likely 6-24 hours. 

Cost of extra capacity D cell NiMH is not cheap to buy, and then there's need of charger(s).  But investment is good value if recording urban locations with frequent overnight for recharging gear, and over many years time rechargeable pack is likely renewable/reliable enough to last the life of the deck, but mostly true only with careful charging/storage management practices.

BD-12T is similar to BD-8 construction, but with power plug for SD decks, and 1-cell position longer holding 4 more cells than BD-8

BD-12T specifics at: www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm#bd12

I know many here also are DIY, and can wire your own battery sleds together so take a look a photo of BD-8 for unique construction details

Notice the internal thermal safety fuse that's very important to avoid smoke/melting stuff if something gets shorted.

Notice white self-supporting molded plastic battery sled that is very rigid so cells, even heavy NiMH, don't move to momentarily disconnect to cause recording faults with battery sled flexing.

These white self-supporting battery sleds are no longer available from large north American/European parts distributors (maybe surplus/special order), only non-self supporting black poly plastic types are now stocked. And these mostly needing to be attached to something rigid to keep cells from moving around.  So if wanting to make your own, attach sled to stiff metal plate or some other rigid surface.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 11:10:39 PM by guysonic »
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 09:57:25 PM »
i just don't like that NiMH weighs twice as much as li-ion packs.

you can get 10amps of li-ion for less than a pound
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2008, 12:04:26 PM »
Would the 10-14-88 LI pack be ok for external power with the 744T and the dummy cell dealio?    Where does one find a dumby cell?
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2008, 01:04:57 PM »
I bought my dummy cell off Ebay. It is part of a charger package for sony camcorders. I'm not sure the battery geek would work since it appears to be no less than 10V and the 722 takes 7.2V. It would probably run fine as an external battery using a hirose connection though.
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2008, 02:37:58 PM »
Got my dummy cell all rigged up so I thought I'd share some pics. Ed from Kind Kables hooked me up with the Ultra Stealth mic cables and matched the dummy cell with the appropriate sheathing to compliment the cables. I like it!  ;D

Still haven't checked to see how long it will power the 702 because of technical difficulties but like most have suggested it would probably power for about 10 hours. I did have it connected to the 702 and was working fine.



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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2008, 09:41:16 AM »
  Any one know who carries Hirose connectors?
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2008, 10:00:13 AM »
This may be a dumb question...are there male and female Hirose connectors?
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2008, 10:31:32 AM »
This may be a dumb question...are there male and female Hirose connectors?

yes

7p-4p is 7diameter, 4 pin, plug (cable end)
7p-4s is 7 diameter, 4 pin, jack (722 end)

http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/e11000216.pdf
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2008, 03:53:52 PM »
Looking at the jack of the 722 face on, which pin is 1 and 4?

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2008, 04:34:53 PM »
Looking at the jack of the 722 face on, which pin is 1 and 4?

They are labeled you just need to look very hard. 

The actual Hirose connector is easier to read.
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2008, 02:47:57 AM »
John, FWIW, I just made another dummy cell thing. I put a 4-pin on the end of mny dummy cell just like I did the one I gave to tonedeaf :) The white stripe is POSITIVE and the one w/ writing is NEGATIVE. if using a 4-pin, use the 12v wiring scheme. That would be Pin 4=HOT and Pin 1=NEGATIVE

I'll snap some pics if ANYONE IS INTERESTED ;)
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2008, 06:46:07 AM »
John, FWIW, I just made another dummy cell thing. I put a 4-pin on the end of mny dummy cell just like I did the one I gave to tonedeaf :) The white stripe is POSITIVE and the one w/ writing is NEGATIVE. if using a 4-pin, use the 12v wiring scheme. That would be Pin 4=HOT and Pin 1=NEGATIVE

I'll snap some pics if ANYONE IS INTERESTED ;)

Yes, pix please.

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2008, 07:42:41 AM »
John, FWIW, I just made another dummy cell thing. I put a 4-pin on the end of mny dummy cell just like I did the one I gave to tonedeaf :) The white stripe is POSITIVE and the one w/ writing is NEGATIVE. if using a 4-pin, use the 12v wiring scheme. That would be Pin 4=HOT and Pin 1=NEGATIVE

I'll snap some pics if ANYONE IS INTERESTED ;)

Yes, pix please.

 ;D




D'oh! I still havent found my USB cable for my digi cam :(

I'll do a thorough search today tho ;)

This one came out SWEEEEEEET! It has a ton of 3:1 heatshrink for strain relief, and even has the 3mm heatshrink on the solder joints :) I made it at like 3am last nite 8) Im very proud of this one! Right now im running battery runtimes w/ MBHO>MIC IN>Phantom ON>24/48>headphones ON>Writing to JUST the CF Card :) Id LOVE to get 8 hrs or so :) Next I need to get a 32GB RiData cf card to go along w/ my 8GB RiData Pro cf card, and here I come festie season ;D
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2008, 09:15:36 AM »
John, FWIW, I just made another dummy cell thing. I put a 4-pin on the end of mny dummy cell just like I did the one I gave to tonedeaf :) The white stripe is POSITIVE and the one w/ writing is NEGATIVE. if using a 4-pin, use the 12v wiring scheme. That would be Pin 4=HOT and Pin 1=NEGATIVE

I'll snap some pics if ANYONE IS INTERESTED ;)

Hey Bean.  I still have that cable...it's awesome. 

My project for today and tomorrow is to rig it up with a dummy M series battery that I'll be able to use with my Sony video camera...with this cable I'll be able to run the camera for DAYS off the RC batteries.  What I'm gonna try to do is put a connector in between the L-series dummy cell that's currently installed so that I can swap between the M-series dummy and the L-series cell.  I have a dead M-series battery that I'm gonna disassemble and use for the M-series dummy cell.  Moke posted some pictures a long time ago (maybe in the remote power forum...or maybe it was even earlier in this thread???) that showed how he has done this in the past.  I'll let you know how it works out.

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2008, 12:54:12 AM »
If I was i would put the battery in your bag that dose not go on with you. There don't look in them just the one that go on with you.
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2008, 11:10:22 AM »
John, FWIW, I just made another dummy cell thing. I put a 4-pin on the end of mny dummy cell just like I did the one I gave to tonedeaf :) The white stripe is POSITIVE and the one w/ writing is NEGATIVE. if using a 4-pin, use the 12v wiring scheme. That would be Pin 4=HOT and Pin 1=NEGATIVE

I'll snap some pics if ANYONE IS INTERESTED ;)

Thanks Bean!
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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2008, 06:22:48 PM »
How about this sucker for a 722/744

BG 9-12-130 Super X-Treme Run Time Portable DVD Player Battery

http://www.batterygeek.net/BG_9_12_130_Portable_DVD_Player_Battery_p/9-12-130_batterygeek.htm

Anyone given it a shot??  Is there anything negative about feeding a 7.2V device 9volts?? 

B&K 4023's >Neve Portico>744T

Offline strangetapes

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2008, 10:03:50 PM »
I was wondering if one of you could point me in the direction of one of these dummy cells.  I tried searching on ebay but the search came back with like 136 pages or something crazy like that.  I tried "Sony dummy cell" (stranger things have worked) but came back with nothing.  A point in the right direction would be appreciated, even just let me know what I should be searching under.

found the info from the links earlier in this thread.

Also has anyone tried this out yet,


Designed a real 'bad boy' 12 D cell power sled for SD decks that's surprising light weight. 

Filled with regular heavy duty Alkaline D cell, and you've got a 250 watt super capacity pack, but weighing all of 4 pounds and running same 7 watt deck for 35+ hours!  Great for rural festivals and remote expeditions where heavy batteries, recharging/swapping batteries is best avoided with highly reliable alkaline.   Renewal time: 2-3 minutes to install fresh cells.

If instead wanting a rechargeable pack, then loading 12 same NiMH D cell as in 70 watt pack gives lower capacity 150 watts, heavier weight than alkaline 250 watts, and with 7 watt deck, running time expected is ~20 hours, with recharge time likely 6-24 hours. 

Cost of extra capacity D cell NiMH is not cheap to buy, and then there's need of charger(s).  But investment is good value if recording urban locations with frequent overnight for recharging gear, and over many years time rechargeable pack is likely renewable/reliable enough to last the life of the deck, but mostly true only with careful charging/storage management practices.

BD-12T is similar to BD-8 construction, but with power plug for SD decks, and 1-cell position longer holding 4 more cells than BD-8

BD-12T specifics at: www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm#bd12

I know many here also are DIY, and can wire your own battery sleds together so take a look a photo of BD-8 for unique construction details

Notice the internal thermal safety fuse that's very important to avoid smoke/melting stuff if something gets shorted.

Notice white self-supporting molded plastic battery sled that is very rigid so cells, even heavy NiMH, don't move to momentarily disconnect to cause recording faults with battery sled flexing.

These white self-supporting battery sleds are no longer available from large north American/European parts distributors (maybe surplus/special order), only non-self supporting black poly plastic types are now stocked. And these mostly needing to be attached to something rigid to keep cells from moving around.  So if wanting to make your own, attach sled to stiff metal plate or some other rigid surface.



Thanks,
Bill
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 11:42:32 PM by strangetapes »
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2008, 06:35:07 AM »
How about this sucker for a 722/744

BG 9-12-130 Super X-Treme Run Time Portable DVD Player Battery

http://www.batterygeek.net/BG_9_12_130_Portable_DVD_Player_Battery_p/9-12-130_batterygeek.htm

Anyone given it a shot??  Is there anything negative about feeding a 7.2V device 9volts?? 



Ned, I dont know for sure, but I WOULD NOT try this personally. There is a reason that the internal batteries it uses are 7.2-7.4 volt ;) I am surely not going to be the guinea pig ;)

If youre going to use any kind of pwering method OTHER than the Lion 7.2v packs, IMO, you have to use either a 7.2v battery and use a "Dummy Cell"(Sony DK-415) to get the power to the 7.2, OR, a 12v battery and wire up a Hirose connector ;) 12v batteries are heavy to deal with, and a Hirose connector is VERY TINY, and I am sure its not easy to solder up. I LOVE soldering, and I stayed away from those, even tho they are a locking connector, which I would have preferred.

Or, you can do what I did, and get a Sony DK-415 "Dummy Cell" or take apart a 7.2v Lion battery, and wire a "Dummy Cell" up yourself ;) I personally LOVE my 7.2v "Dummy Cell" setup. BUT, when Leegeddy was still around about 304 years ago, I had him make me (2) CUSTOM 3 x Tamiya RC Connectors>3-Amp Fuse>4-Pin XLR, and he made it so the batteries are wired in PARALLEL, so that the voltage stays the same for my 3 x 7.2v 3000mah(7.2v 9000mah 'packs'), and just the mah triples. The custom cables that eh made me(I gave one away to my good friend and taper, Steve Toney(tonedeaf), and the other cable resides about 45 mins from me, in Greensburg, PA. But no chance of anyone getting it, because if he decides he doesnt ever need it, its coming back to me so I have a backup ;) But anyway, the dummy cell method is def a cost effective and reliable way to go IMO. Since the cable that Leegeddy made me has a 4-Pin XLR(specified by me since it has a locking connector), I also wired the end of my Sony DK-415 dummy cell w/ a 4-Pin Neutrik XLR, so that the connection DOES lock. The 7.2v NIMH method is also the way to go because NIMH RC batteries typically have a very long life and recharging lifespan, and IMO, are ALOT more reliable than Lion batteries will EVER BE ;) Also, the cost of them isnt bad at all, if you get them off of ebay, since you typically wont need to replace them for MANY YEARS! And the Alkaline method that someone mentioned above, not only gets expensive, but also harms the environment, because even tho you may get 35 hrs per 10 or so of the alkaline batteries, youre going to have to buy more after that 35 hrs is used up. That not only hurts the environment w/ so much battery waste, but also hurts your wallet, and pretty significantly ;)

You can get 7.2v NIMH RC batteries off of Ebay for pretty cheap IMO. When I got mine off of ebay about 4 years ago or so, they only had a MAXIMUM CAPACITY of 3000mah, and now they have a MAX CAPACITY of 4500mah. Thats substantially more mah power than my older 3000mah ones. You could just get (2) 4500mah NIMH rc batts, and have 9000mah of juice(the same amount of juice I have in (3) batteries), in just (2) batteries. I have (3) x 3000mah batteries wired in parallel, so essentially I have (4) 7.2volt/9000mah batteries, since I have (12) 7.2v 3000mah batteries. I think the way to go would be to invest in the 7.2v/4200mah or 4500mah NIMH rc batts(All-Battery on ebay has the best deals and is where I got mine from 4 years ago. I wouldnt hesitate to do business w/ them again). You can get package deals of (4) 7.2v 4200mah NIMH rc batts for $76.00+Shipping, and that should easily get you 14 hrs if recording to JUST a CF Card in the 7xx. A Dummy Cell will cost you about $30-40.00/Shipped. So for around $150.00 in batteries, and $40.00 for the dummy cell, totaling around $200.00, you can get (8) 7.2volt/4200mah NIMH RC Batteries, which should yield you around 28 hrs recording to JUST a CF Card. I think I paid $50.00+Shipping for (3) 3000mah ones whenI got them, so those prices arent bad AT ALL IMO 8)

The NIMH batteries are more reliable than Lion, and more Eco-Friendly than Lion and Alkaline, so IMO, this is the ONLY way to go, thats why I chose to go this route 2 years ago for festie powering for my 722 :) The ONLY downside to the 7.2v NIMH rc batts is their weight, but that could be DRASTICALLY REDUCED by getting the 4200mah or the 4500mah ones. They are obviously more expensive than the 3000mah ones I have, but could really cut down on weight. I have actually been thinking about getting (4) of the 4200mah ones, and thatw ay I could just carry (2) batteries at at time, to get the same runtime I do out of my (3) x 7.2v 3000mah packs. I could even just use (1) of the 4200 or 4500mah ones, and that should be PLENTY of runtime for your average 2-set show! That reminds me tho, the battery lock on my 722 is broken, and I woould like to get it fixed asap since I plan on using the 7.2v mehtod as my MAIN powering option since my lion batts keep crapping out on me. That would def give me some piece of mind so I knew my dummy cell wouldnt just "come out" of the battery slot. I need to get my 722 upgraded w/ the Version 2 Firmware anyway :)

I have never weighed my 7.2v 9000mah 'packs' that I taped together w/ just cl;ear packaging tape to form one battery, but they weigh pretty similar to a 6volt/7.2a SLA Ecocharge. Thats def doable IMO. I used to have (4) of those 6v/7.2a Ecocharges at festivals anyway, so it was never a huge deal for me. The weight was about the same since I carry (4) 7.2v/9000mah NIMH 'packs' w/ me to festivals like All Good anyway, so I carry the same weight I used to, except overall my setup is lighter since I now have actives and an overall smaller setup. I personally would rather carry more weight than use the lion 7xx batteries, because I KNOW I will have power when i get to the show/festival, and they are and always will be more reliable, at least in my experiences. And they are def lighter than a 12v setup would be to get you around the same amount of runtime. Even for local shows now, I use my 7.2v/9000mah setup. I just leave the Sony DK-415 "Dummy Cell" hooked up to my 722 AT ALL TIMES, and that way I can easily switch out the 7.2v/9000mah rc packs. And I feel confident using them since I have 4-Pin XLR's as my locking connector on them 8)

Another benefit over ANY of the other methods is recharging times. I have (2) "Chun" Smart Chargers(which are the simple blue chargers that EVERY PLACE sells as a package deal w/ their rc batteries) and they both charge at a steady rate of 2,000mah. Which means I can EASILY charge my 3000mah batteries in around 2 hrs or LESS ;) So when I get another charger so I have (3) chun smart chargers, I'll be able to charge all 3 batteries that make up my 9000mah 'packs' in under 2 hrs ;D Thats pretty damn quick if you need to recharge at a festival ;) Having a whole 9000mah pack charged in under 2 hrs is BLAZIN' FAST IMO!!! That same pack that just took only 2 hrs to charge, will yield me 8+ hrs of recording to JUST my CF Card, and I can steadily get 7hrs of record time to my INHDD on my 722. I wouldnt push them that far tho. I can SAFELY get 6-6.5 hrs recording to JUST my INHDD of my 722. But I can STEADILY AND SAFELY get 8 hrs recording to just my CF Card. TRUST ME, Ive been cycling batteries and checking runtimes the last two weeks in preparation for the upcoming 5 free arts fest shows Im seeing in da burgh starting TODAY for moe 8) And also for the upcoming festivals I'll be doing(ALL GOOD 2008)!!!

And another reminder about NIMH RC BATTERIES!!!!! CYCLE YOUR BATTERIES AT LEAST 6-8 TIMES WHEN YOU FIRST GET THEM. This will bring them to max capacity and you will feel alot better after you do this. Otherwise, you wont see your max capacity w/ them. When I FIRST got my batteries, and started the cycling process, I was only getting HALF the runtime Im currently getting. And no matter WHAT people say about NIMH batteries NOT having a memory effect, well, this is true, however, if you dont use them for awhile and they sit from fall>spring/summer of the next year(and I even charge them every 2-3 months so they dont go dead on me) THEY NEED CYCLED about 3-4 times AROUND ONCE A YEAR. That way they WILL reach their maximum capacity and I just feel better doing this as well. I setup my rig in my basement for around 2 weeks(like Ive been doing the last 2 weeks) and just keep running my rig OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. This not only cycles your batteries until you feel they have reached their maximum capacity, but it also gives you a chance to test and write down your runtimes for each battery. I know it sounds UBER GEEKY, but I write down what kind of runtimes I get each cycle WITH the backlight OFF and WITH the backlight ON, while running phantom ON, and recording at 24/48 recording the TV to get realistic levels ;) Write your runtimes down, so you never have to second guess yourself again, at least until next summer comes around and you have to cycle them and write down your runtimes again. Over the last 3-4 summers Ive done this w/ my 7.2v NIMH batteries, I have noticed they I still get around the same runtimes as I did when the batteries were new and that makes me VERY HAPPY 8) I havent seen them drop down in runtimes at all, and when they eventually start to drop down significantly, I'll replace them!!!

Link to All-Battery's Ebay Store, and a specific link to their 7.2v NIMH RC BAtteries:
http://stores.ebay.com/All-Battery-Center_RC-Car-Battery_7-2V_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ12793743QQftidZ2QQtZkm

OR, you could go the 12v route, and get a 12v SLA battery(Ecocharge/Powersonic/etc), or a 12v NIMH battery setup, OR a 12v Lion setup. I personally would STAY WAY from Lion as much as possible. I have had (3) freakin 6000+mah 7xx lions go bad in less than 2 years, and it wouldnt be so bad if they had warning signs, but they just die OUT OF THE BLUE :'( If I were going to go the 12v route, I would either go w/ SLA's(Sealed Lead Acid) or NIMH batteries, and get the RC ones. Either way you go with the 12v's, youre going to need to find a correct Hirose connector, and then find someone willing to actually wire it up for you :P Dont look at me tho :P ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2008, 06:40:14 AM »
I was wondering if one of you could point me in the direction of one of these dummy cells.  I tried searching on ebay but the search came back with like 136 pages or something crazy like that.  I tried "Sony dummy cell" (stranger things have worked) but came back with nothing.  A point in the right direction would be appreciated, even just let me know what I should be searching under.

found the info from the links earlier in this thread.

Also has anyone tried this out yet,


Designed a real 'bad boy' 12 D cell power sled for SD decks that's surprising light weight. 

Filled with regular heavy duty Alkaline D cell, and you've got a 250 watt super capacity pack, but weighing all of 4 pounds and running same 7 watt deck for 35+ hours!  Great for rural festivals and remote expeditions where heavy batteries, recharging/swapping batteries is best avoided with highly reliable alkaline.   Renewal time: 2-3 minutes to install fresh cells.

If instead wanting a rechargeable pack, then loading 12 same NiMH D cell as in 70 watt pack gives lower capacity 150 watts, heavier weight than alkaline 250 watts, and with 7 watt deck, running time expected is ~20 hours, with recharge time likely 6-24 hours. 

Cost of extra capacity D cell NiMH is not cheap to buy, and then there's need of charger(s).  But investment is good value if recording urban locations with frequent overnight for recharging gear, and over many years time rechargeable pack is likely renewable/reliable enough to last the life of the deck, but mostly true only with careful charging/storage management practices.

BD-12T is similar to BD-8 construction, but with power plug for SD decks, and 1-cell position longer holding 4 more cells than BD-8

BD-12T specifics at: www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm#bd12

I know many here also are DIY, and can wire your own battery sleds together so take a look a photo of BD-8 for unique construction details

Notice the internal thermal safety fuse that's very important to avoid smoke/melting stuff if something gets shorted.

Notice white self-supporting molded plastic battery sled that is very rigid so cells, even heavy NiMH, don't move to momentarily disconnect to cause recording faults with battery sled flexing.

These white self-supporting battery sleds are no longer available from large north American/European parts distributors (maybe surplus/special order), only non-self supporting black poly plastic types are now stocked. And these mostly needing to be attached to something rigid to keep cells from moving around.  So if wanting to make your own, attach sled to stiff metal plate or some other rigid surface.



Thanks,
Bill

FWIW, the "official" name of the dummy cell is the Sony DK-415 "Dummy Cell" 8)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline strangetapes

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2008, 04:56:20 PM »
Bean,

Thanks for all the info above.  I was actually thinking about rechargable D cells but I like the set up that you have going.  I have two dummys on the way and was wondering if you could point me in the direction of someone who could build the multiple rc packs like you have done.  I'm not the handiest guy in the world but will at least attempt most things with one exception, electrical.  I don't mess with it.

Thanks for any info you can give me, and +t for the info.

Bill
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 04:58:29 PM by strangetapes »
Neumann SKM 184's; Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4
V3
SD722; R44

Offline deeputahpowder

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2008, 03:30:32 PM »
OK.  recently joined the Sound devices ranks with a 722 and trying to figure out the festival battery situation...I already have several 12v batts and trying to figure out how I can utilize them to power the 722 -v- buying the dummy cell and new 7.2v batts.  If money were no option I would go the dummy cell route and buy some new batts and have a lighter more portable solution.  however, if I can buy these couple cables and use the 12v batts I have then sweet.  I have the cigarette lighter female plugs connected to the 12v batts. 

Could I connect this to the 722  - hirose to male 4-pin xlr
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387046-REG/Cable_Techniques_BBNXL4M12_BB_NXL4M_12_12_Battery.html

then connect that cable to this  - female 4-pin xlr to male cigarette plug
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/126241-REG/Cool_Lux_CC8014_CC_8014_4_pin_XLR_Female.html

and then connect the male cigarette plug to the female cigarette plug on the 12v batt??

Would this work.? or why doesn't this work?? 

thanks so much for the advice.
dave
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 03:32:35 PM by deeputahpowder »
Avantone ck-1's ->  722

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2008, 03:12:45 AM »
OK.  recently joined the Sound devices ranks with a 722 and trying to figure out the festival battery situation...I already have several 12v batts and trying to figure out how I can utilize them to power the 722 -v- buying the dummy cell and new 7.2v batts.  If money were no option I would go the dummy cell route and buy some new batts and have a lighter more portable solution.  however, if I can buy these couple cables and use the 12v batts I have then sweet.  I have the cigarette lighter female plugs connected to the 12v batts. 

Could I connect this to the 722  - hirose to male 4-pin xlr
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387046-REG/Cable_Techniques_BBNXL4M12_BB_NXL4M_12_12_Battery.html

then connect that cable to this  - female 4-pin xlr to male cigarette plug
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/126241-REG/Cool_Lux_CC8014_CC_8014_4_pin_XLR_Female.html

and then connect the male cigarette plug to the female cigarette plug on the 12v batt??

Would this work.? or why doesn't this work?? 

thanks so much for the advice.
dave

I would think so. Just make sure pins are right on said cables.

From SD manual...

External DC In:

Accepts sources of 10–18 volts DC for
unit powering and removable Li-ion
battery charging. The Hirose 4-pin connector
is wired pin-1 negative (−), pin-4
positive (+). Pin-2 (−) and pin-3 (+) are
used to charge the removable Li-ion
battery. DC ground at both pins-2 and
3 is at the same potential as chassis and
signal ground.
I don't know just where I'm going
But I'm gonna try for the kingdom, if I can

Offline deeputahpowder

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Re: External power for SD 7xx
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2008, 04:17:24 PM »
Here is the response from redding audio about this cable  BB-NXL4M-12

"While not intended for this op - it will work. The cable will power the unit, but WILL NOT recharge the battery. Thanks."

Avantone ck-1's ->  722

 

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