Topic: new taper seeking critique

[willyp523]

+T for taping Keb'

Like others have said...sounds like the venue and/or your position in it, had the effect on Keb's vocals.  Still, it's quite nice.

Not familiar with the mic used, but I own both sp-cmc-8 and Church cards and have been happy with both, much more often than not.   

[sunjan]

- No taping allowed, so it has to be low key. Is there a technilogical reason why hypers aren't made for stealth, or is it just a coincidental state of the world?

Someone might make them but I haven't seen them if they do. One thought is that by being more directional, aiming them becomes more important but harder to do discretely.

AT853 with hyper caps is a decent budget option, although bass response is a bit lower than the other caps (dropping off at 80Hz, I read here on TS somewhere). But like cybergaloot and gutbucket also pointed out, aiming hypers require a lot of attention, which you might not be able to give in a st3alth situation.

As far as the technological explanation, my understanding is that it's tricky to manufacture a tiny hyper capsule that will be able to disregard/filter all off-axis sound, while still achieving full frequency response on-axis. From a manufacturing point of view, the larger the mic, the easier it is to "focus/concentrate" the pick-up to the on-axis area. The large shotgun mics commonly mounted on pro video cameras is one example...

[boolz]

Closing the loop. I got a chance to record in this same venue, this time about 30 ft from the stage. Joan Osborne and John Hiatt each did a one hour set. I've not heard the whole thing back yet because I'm having some annoying crashes with Audacity for some reason. So I just cut the encores.

Osborne's encore:

Make You Feel My Love

Hiatt's encores:
Riding With the King
Have a Little Faith in Me

On site, I felt there was less of the hollowness(but still some), but mainly that the mix wasn't great - frequently the vocals were lost. This was particularly true for Hiatt's set, which also seemed too loud. Not uncomfortably so, but like it maxed out something that shouldn't be maxed out - something was lost, but I'm not sure what. A friend, who was there but doesn't know I'm taping, also mentioned the same thing. I'm thinking I'll hit this place when I really want to the hear the artist, but when I can, try to catch them elsewhere. On the good side, audience was cool this time.

[Gutbucket]

Sounds good boolz (even listening on crappy computer speakers right now).

A couple comments relating to what you mentioned about the 'hollowness' and the vocals-
Having lived our whole lives being intimately familiar with the human voice, we tend to be more critical listeners to vocals than other instruments. Also consider the ability of some sounds and instruments to be able to stand more echo and reverb than others and still be perceived as natural sounding.  A third related factor is the ability of more open arrangements to sound good with an amount of echo or reverb that would swamp a dense arrangement.  For instance-

In the Keb'Mo samples the ambience on the instruments sounds nice to me here at the computer, conveying an open, big-room, live feeling of space while still sounding clear.  It's the vocal where I notice the echoing 'hollow' sound a bit more (which is also effecting the instruments of course), not enough to be bad, but more than you'd like I'd guess.  If the arrangement was denser everything might get swamped more.

In the Hiatt 'Have Faith' clip I can hear less echo on the vocals so they sound clearer, but the open arrangement still sounds good and live.  On the 'Riding' clip the arrangement is denser and though not objectionable, the instruments start to get blurred a bit in the long reverb time.

It all comes down to the sound you like and what you are happy with.  I like hearing the ambience in a live recording, but I still want clarity, presence and definition too.  There's a balance to be struck.  Sometimes in a bad room you just have to get relatively close to one of the speaker stacks where the level and clarity of the direct sound is strong enough to make the room sound less objectionable, even if that places you way off center. Often there is a bit of a vocal hole in the center of the floor up close to the stage. Proximity to a speaker will almost certainly make the vocal clearer and will work better in an echoy room for denser music than heard in your samples.  You might try that next time you record at this place and compare. Even if you are close to one speaker you can still get a nice stereo sounding recording with good room ambience.  Most big sound systems are in mono anyway. 

[boolz]

Thanks, GB. That all makes sense. Overall, I like the Keb' Mo' recording better for the reasons you mention. While not perfect by any means, I can live with the vocal being slightly off as trade-off for clearer instrumentals. And, apart from all recording considerations, I generally like the instrumentation to be sparse enough that I can hear the nuances of the individual performances as part of the whole. In any case, I really appreciate your thoughtful comments on this. It's interesting stuff to think about, in and around hearing some great music.

[Gutbucket]

I'm right with you on the general preference for sparse, open instrumentation, boolz.  I love hearing into and around the music.  Sometimes the most important part of the music is the space between the notes.  It seems to me that much like musicianship, listening is the most important skill in recording.  Come to think of it, listening is probably the most important skill of most things.  The love of really listening, the music and thinking about all this is a big part of what got me into recording.  Its a way for me to get deeper into the sound and the music and develop an understanding of what's going on - and adds to my enjoyment of the music in ways that not many people are attuned to.  Thanks for sharing.