Topic: Mono/Mono Matrix... need help...

[deviant]

Hi... hope someone can help.

I was given the ok to tape a band, but there was some stipulations. They will only give me a mono board feed (it's mono anyway) and I have to tape it from the audience as well, which will also be mono since the board is. I have an M1, dual female XLR to mini, and stereo mics to mini. Since the board feed will be mono, what I'd like to do is take that mono signal from the board using one of the female XLRs and send it to either the left or right channels on the DAT, then take one of the signals from my mics using either the left or right one and send that signal to the other channel on the DAT. That would give me a mono audience and mono board, which I would then mix the two later into a stereo(mono) recording.

I think I know what I need, but I'm looking for anyone elses opinion since I'm unsure of a couple things and I'd like to keep the signals as pure as possible, not going to thu too many adapters.

Based on what I have, I believe I need a Y adapter that is dual mono female to single male stereo. What I'm not sure of, will the mono plug only pull from the left or right signal connector on a stereo male plug, or does it connect with any or all parts of the plug, not differentiating between the left or right connection.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Thanks!

Joel

[hexyjones]

Hi... hope someone can help.

I was given the ok to tape a band, but there was some stipulations. They will only give me a mono board feed (it's mono anyway) and I have to tape it from the audience as well, which will also be mono since the board is. I have an M1, dual female XLR to mini, and stereo mics to mini. Since the board feed will be mono, what I'd like to do is take that mono signal from the board using one of the female XLRs and send it to either the left or right channels on the DAT, then take one of the signals from my mics using either the left or right one and send that signal to the other channel on the DAT. That would give me a mono audience and mono board, which I would then mix the two later into a stereo(mono) recording.

I think I know what I need, but I'm looking for anyone elses opinion since I'm unsure of a couple things and I'd like to keep the signals as pure as possible, not going to thu too many adapters.

Based on what I have, I believe I need a Y adapter that is dual mono female to single male stereo. What I'm not sure of, will the mono plug only pull from the left or right signal connector on a stereo male plug, or does it connect with any or all parts of the plug, not differentiating between the left or right connection.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Thanks!

Joel

yeah - just use what ever stereo cable you usually use...and send the board to one (say the red plug) and the AUD to the other (white) - that will accomplish just what you propose...

Try to get the mic close or you will hear a bit of delay - that may not sound so hot...

Interesting idea...at least you wont have the timing hassles common with post production matricies...

For the mix...
I might try generating a fake stereo with the ambient (AUD) channel and leave the board mono....

Anyone have one of those old silver Radio Shack EQ's with the "Stereo Expander" built in...?

[Tim]

I understand your point that the PA will be mono but I would encourage you to make a stereo recording in the sweet spot. The sounds coming from the stage (drum kit, amps) will be in stereo as will the crowd around you. Just a thought...

I'm a little confused about what you're getting at...

I would just get one stereo rca cable that terminates in a stereo mini.... then use an adapter to connect to the mono board output with one channel, and an apapter to connect the mic output with the other channel.

What dat deck will you be using? If you're using a sony portable I'm worried about how you will be setting your levels...

[hexyjones]

I understand your point that the PA will be mono but I would encourage you to make a stereo recording in the sweet spot. The sounds coming from the stage (drum kit, amps) will be in stereo as will the crowd around you. Just a thought...

I'm a little confused about what you're getting at...

I would just get one stereo rca cable that terminates in a stereo mini.... then use an adapter to connect to the mono board output with one channel, and an apapter to connect the mic output with the other channel.

What dat deck will you be using? If you're using a sony portable I'm worried about how you will be setting your levels...

Re-read his post - he has one deck and two sources - one of which is already mono...doesnt sound like he has a mixer...

[Tim]

I read it and I made a simple recommendation.

[hexyjones]

I read it and I made a simple recommendation.

I was given the ok to tape a band, but there was some stipulations...

[hexyjones]

What dat deck will you be using? If you're using a sony portable I'm worried about how you will be setting your levels...

That is a good point...!

[Tim]

I read it and I made a simple recommendation.

I was given the ok to tape a band, but there was some stipulations...

how is my recommendation to make a stereo audience recording in anyway related to this?

I'll quote him so maybe you will understand what I was getting at:

They will only give me a mono board feed (it's mono anyway) and I have to tape it from the audience as well, which will also be mono since the board is.

Once again, the amps and drums in the room will not be mono and neither will the crowd. If he has the means I would encourage him to make a stereo audience recording. This would really help to fillout the mono sbd in a sonically pleasing way.

What is the problem???

[hexyjones]

I read it and I made a simple recommendation.

I was given the ok to tape a band, but there was some stipulations...

how is my recommendation to make a stereo audience recording in anyway related to this?

I'll quote him so maybe you will understand what I was getting at:

They will only give me a mono board feed (it's mono anyway) and I have to tape it from the audience as well, which will also be mono since the board is.

Once again, the amps and drums in the room will not be mono and neither will the crowd. If he has the means I would encourage him to make a stereo audience recording. This would really help to fillout the mono sbd in a sonically pleasing way.

What is the problem???

The problem is - there wont be any mono board feed - he said he only had one deck - unless there is some 3 channel M1 that I have never heard of...

[deviant]

I understand your point that the PA will be mono but I would encourage you to make a stereo recording in the sweet spot. The sounds coming from the stage (drum kit, amps) will be in stereo as will the crowd around you. Just a thought...

I'm a little confused about what you're getting at...

I would just get one stereo rca cable that terminates in a stereo mini.... then use an adapter to connect to the mono board output with one channel, and an apapter to connect the mic output with the other channel.

What dat deck will you be using? If you're using a sony portable I'm worried about how you will be setting your levels...

Re-read his post - he has one deck and two sources - one of which is already mono...doesnt sound like he has a mixer...

No mixer.... does using an adapter to convert the stereo to mono going to cause any problems? Would a mono to mono plug only pull the signal from either channel of the mini plug?

[Brian Skalinder]

Try to borrow a deck/JB3 and run SBD into it, then run a stereo audience recording into your M1.  Best of both worlds.  If the show isn't happening immediately, I bet you can track down a loaner.

If you're stuck with only the M1, personally I'd skip the SBD outright and run a stereo pair of mics in the sweet spot.

[deviant]

I understand your point that the PA will be mono but I would encourage you to make a stereo recording in the sweet spot. The sounds coming from the stage (drum kit, amps) will be in stereo as will the crowd around you. Just a thought...

I'm a little confused about what you're getting at...

I would just get one stereo rca cable that terminates in a stereo mini.... then use an adapter to connect to the mono board output with one channel, and an apapter to connect the mic output with the other channel.

What dat deck will you be using? If you're using a sony portable I'm worried about how you will be setting your levels...

Re-read his post - he has one deck and two sources - one of which is already mono...doesnt sound like he has a mixer...

No mixer.... does using an adapter to convert the stereo to mono going to cause any problems? Would a mono to mono plug only pull the signal from either channel of the mini plug?

It would be better to have a stereo aud, but I do only have the M1. It's a small room to, so I don't think the stereo separation of the instruments would be that noticable, but it would be preferred.

I know the levels may be different and I'm willing to take the chance. I'm just wanting to make the cleanest recording without to many adapters. I biggest concearn is which adapter to use...

[Tim]

The problem is - there wont be any mono board feed - he said he only had one deck - unless there is some 3 channel M1 that I have never heard of...

aaaarrrggghhhhhhh

I helped him with his problem and was just giving some friendly advice from someone who has a little bit of experience. Perhaps after that advice he might reconsider and borrow another recorder or perhaps not. I was trying to help not just him but anyone else who might be reading this thread, now or in the future, see a few of the other possibilities out there.

[deviant]

Try to borrow a deck/JB3 and run SBD into it, then run a stereo audience recording into your M1.  Best of both worlds.  If the show isn't happening immediately, I bet you can track down a loaner.

If you're stuck with only the M1, personally I'd skip the SBD outright and run a stereo pair of mics in the sweet spot.

Don't want to pass on the sbd and can't get another recorder. I'm going out of state for the show. Also, I would rather have a mono aud/sbd mix. The room is small, maybe 300-400 capacity.

[hexyjones]

The problem is - there wont be any mono board feed - he said he only had one deck - unless there is some 3 channel M1 that I have never heard of...

aaaarrrggghhhhhhh

I helped him with his problem and was just giving some friendly advice from someone who has a little bit of experience. Perhaps after that advice he might reconsider and borrow another recorder or perhaps not. I was trying to help not just him but anyone else who might be reading this thread, now or in the future, see a few of the other possibilities out there.

I was just trying to make suggestions that fit the "stipulations" -

Yeah, stereo - great idea!!!

[Tim]

forget it

[wbrisette]

Re-read his post - he has one deck and two sources - one of which is already mono...doesnt sound like he has a mixer...

hmmm... I know where he can borrow one. 

I think my Wendt X4 is still listed on the gear loaner program (four channels > 2). While I'm not fond of doing it this way, he could mix the mono soundboard into both the left and right and run the stereo AUD feed.

Without a mixer, I would suggest running an omni as a single mic. Regardless, I think a 1 mic, 1 soundboard recording is going to sound flat (as do most soundboards in my opinion).

Wayne

[1st set only]

Try to borrow a deck/JB3 and run SBD into it, then run a stereo audience recording into your M1.  Best of both worlds.  If the show isn't happening immediately, I bet you can track down a loaner.

If you're stuck with only the M1, personally I'd skip the SBD outright and run a stereo pair of mics in the sweet spot.

Don't want to pass on the sbd and can't get another recorder. I'm going out of state for the show. Also, I would rather have a mono aud/sbd mix. The room is small, maybe 300-400 capacity.

how bout you d a m/s recording. 
have the mics go to one channel and the sbd go to the other and do a M/S mix in post. just have your SBD be your Middle and your mics be your side. It is not the typical way of doing a MS recording but it might be neat. you need wavelab or soundforge to do this.

[hexyjones]

Try to borrow a deck/JB3 and run SBD into it, then run a stereo audience recording into your M1.  Best of both worlds.  If the show isn't happening immediately, I bet you can track down a loaner.

If you're stuck with only the M1, personally I'd skip the SBD outright and run a stereo pair of mics in the sweet spot.

Don't want to pass on the sbd and can't get another recorder. I'm going out of state for the show. Also, I would rather have a mono aud/sbd mix. The room is small, maybe 300-400 capacity.

how bout you d a m/s recording. 
have the mics go to one channel and the sbd go to the other and do a M/S mix in post. just have your SBD be your Middle and your mics be your side. It is not the typical way of doing a MS recording but it might be neat. you need wavelab or soundforge to do this.

Interesting - I was thinking the same thing...but it sounds like he will be using just one mic...but I think he could just reverse the phase of that channel to obtain the second channel...might work, might not...

[Patrick]

No matter what source you record the show on, it is going to sound the same.  A mono mix from the board kinda ruins the stereo image no matter what source, soundboard or audience.

Good luck though.

[dklein]

how bout you d a m/s recording. 
have the mics go to one channel and the sbd go to the other and do a M/S mix in post. just have your SBD be your Middle and your mics be your side. It is not the typical way of doing a MS recording but it might be neat. you need wavelab or soundforge to do this.

That's quite clever!  He'd still need a figure-of-eight mic to do m-s though.

And it sounds like Joel really wants both aud and board so let him have it.  The only trick is going to be setting levels with the 2 channels coming from different sources.  I've met Joel and know that he owns some attenuator cables.  You'll have to put those in the soundboard path and/or probably ask the sound dude to cut your levels down so you have something usable for both the board and mic signals.

Then in post, you can load it into an editor and play with the channel balance (CEP has a channel mixer where you can give each side whatever proportion of left/right source).  The end product will be mono but you can choose the balance of board/mic.

As far as plugs/adapters, the mono adapter will likely draw from both left and right contact areas on a stereo plug. 
That's gonna be one ugly setup!