Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: DMBprez on August 02, 2006, 07:51:30 PM
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Hi Folks,
I'm brand spanking new to this site, I read the rules and decided that this is the best place for me to put this. I hope I was correct. I'm 17 years old and deeply interested in taping shows. I have been shopping around and have decided that the AKG c1000s are about right for me (price wise).
I was just wondering if you folks could help me set up a rig. What else will I need other than the mics? Please state brandnames and prices if you can. I am having some trouble here.
Also, please feel free to leave suggestions, I have not bought the mics yet. So, I am completely open to any advice. Thanks so much in advance guys and girls.
-Chris
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First of all.. welcome! ;D
As far as setting up a rig, the possibilities are endless. I run one of the most typical "entry" level rigs which is (outside of mics) an Edirol UA5, which is a preamp (to boost the mic output levels to something that will talk to a recorder) and also an analog to digital converter. There are a lot of people who run seperate Pres and A/Ds, and some can get relatively really expensive. Some people elect or cannot afford to run any A/D converter and run "line in" (analog) to their recorders. I guess I should mention that almost all of the recorders you'll find in use are digital, either hard drive or compact flash card storage. Many people prefer to go with an outside A/D because it typically is of a higher quality than what comes with most recorders, but anybody in their right mind will tell you that there are TONS of fantastic sounding recordings out there that use internal A/Ds.
My recorder is a Nomad Jukebox 3 by Creative. These aren't in production anymore, but can be had around these parts (in the yard sale thread) or on ebay pretty easily. It can take an analog signal and do the conversion internally, or you can send it an optical digital signal to make use of an outboard A/D. The iRiver recorders are really gaining in popularity though. They are basically a MP3 player that somebody wrote some code for to tailor it's performance and function for our purposes. They can also be had here and on ebay in abundance. There's also the MicroTracker, which has a greater bit depth (don't worry about that yet), but some people have experienced functionality issues and one person actually had a battery explode and a resulting fire! :o
Basically what I'm trying to say, is that you're going to need a preamp, possibly an A/D converter, and something to record to (hell, I didn't even mention DAT tape).
Set us up with your price range and you'll get 8,000 suggestions from everybody here. Keep in mind that you should take all opinions with a grain of salt, but there are quite a few people here who really know their shit too.
Finally, you can always download or stream shows from the etree section of the Live Music Archive ( www.archive.org ) to hear different gear. Just search for anything that you're interested in. Keep in mind that the things that will make a difference in your sound are your mics, preamp, cables (oh yeah... you need those too!), and your A/D.
Feel free to post any more questions and again, welcome! :headphones:
Shane
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Thank you very much for your help Shane. :)
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Yeh...welcome Chris!
As Shane said, lay out a few more facts:
- Type/genre of music you'd like to record
- Financial limitations when building a rig
- What you'd like to have in a rig (i.e. functionality, ability to transfer etc..)
You can learn EVERYTHING you need just by browsing past posts on this list. Also, delve in to the Archived sections of the board. There are many "How To's" and FAQs about things as basic as what you need to begin recording. This will offer you an amazing view at what you need, as well as flesh out some of your desires for sound capture(sorry...swapping back in to porn mode). ::)
Also, LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN! You can get an entry level recording setup for just a few hundred dollars, but it may not produce the same sound as what you hear from other shows. In other words, if you have not done so, you can have a lot of fun downloading recordings for the SOLE purpose of listening to how the equipment represented the sound. If you listen to a band you're unfamiliar with, you may be less likely to be critical of the performance, and just listen to the sound and ambiance. Study the notes in the FLAC/SHN files etc...they'll also tell you a lot about the extraneous facets of recording (where to set up, mic positioning etc.).
Bottom line, listen, learn, and don't be afraid to ask questions. Post a David Hasselhoff photo every now and again, and you're golden.
Good Luck!
mike
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Thank you, Mike. :)
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Oh yeh...most importantly...turn around quietly, run, and never look back.
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Thank you, Mike. :)
I'd say for a beginner rig, you can't really go wrong with this...
Buy some SP C4's new (I think you can get 'em on ebay for 280 bones), buy the Tmod UA-5 in the YS for $375 (a STEAL!) and an iRiver H120 on ebay for anywhere from $120-150 new... then you'll just need cables (try some canare starquads for now) and a stand/mounts/t-bar.... and an optical cable to connect the ua-5 to the iriver, and you'll of course need a battery for the ua-5... this probably sounds daunting, but that whole setup should run you no more than $900-950. Maybe this is outside your budget right now... if so, you can get a cheap stock ua-5 and digimod it yourself if you have the skills.... good luck and enjoy this great hobby!
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Oh yeh...most importantly...turn around quietly, run, and never look back.
Pure gold, hahaha, +t!
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And if you didn't do this, already, check here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=46.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=46.0)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=35278.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=35278.0)
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Welcome.
This is all fantastic advice I received a few months ago - the fine folks on this site are fanatasic - if you'd like to ask some other starter questions to a rela-tively-newbie, send me a personal message thru the TS boards.
We're happy to help. I run a akg393s > ua-5 (w-mod+) > D8 (mics > preamp/AtoD > DAT)
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Welcome,
It all depends on how much cash you want to spend.
You can get some decent mics from Sound-pros (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-19 (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-19))
Check out both CMC-19's and CMC-20's, both $59
Maybe get a used DAT or an MD recorder and a battery box (but the latter isnt a must-have).
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Great advice from all of you, and welcome DMBprez.
If you're looking for a recorder, I am selling my Nomad JB3 in the yard sale. Check out this link. (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=69297.0)
:)
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but that whole setup should run you no more than $900-950. Maybe this is outside your budget right now...
When I was 17 - that was about my annual budget!!
DMBprez - I can't reiterate enough the value of listening to lots of recordings made using the mics/equipment you're considering getting. Soak up all the info about the recording (like the location from which it was recorded, stealth or permission, etc.).
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....you knew it was coming....
As semi-official Superlux Pimp let me suggest the Superlux SMK-H8K mics set that you can get for $123 off eBay. AAAudio is a very good seller and a lot of people here have purchased from them and had no problems.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Superlux-SMKH8K-Stereo-Matched-Condensers-KIT_W0QQitemZ260016184018QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The mics are an INCREDIBLE value and I've heard a lot of great sounding recordings made with them. They come with a T-Bar (I used it for about a year before upgrading, works great if you just aim the mics at the speakers....lacking if you are going to use various mic configurations) and Shockmounts so all you need are the cables, recorder and a Phantom Power supply. I have a spare Phantom Art II one sitting around that works fine...I just happened to get a deal on an AD-20 and PS-2 combo so I no longer need it. It's only about $50 new and I'll give you a great deal on it and a dual XLR > Mini cable needed to run into the CJB3 if you are interested.
You'll need a stand and this is a great deal on one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/13-TALL-PRO-HEAVY-DUTY-AIR-CUSHIONED-LIGHT-STANDS-NEW_W0QQitemZ7623073453QQihZ017QQcategoryZ30080QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Then you'll need some cables which can be picked up a lot of places and you can go with $20 15' AT ones I have or go nutso with cables costing several hundered bucks. That's a decision that depends greatly on your budget and how you listen to the recordings. I do most of my listening in the car or on a discman so I'm fine with the cheaper cables but soon want to upgrade. When listening on a good stereo I can maaaaaaaaybe pick out some noise that better cables will get rid of and I'm sure it would sound "crisper" but they were at the bottom of my upgrade priorities list.
Then what's left is a recorder and like has been said before, you can't go wrong with a CJB3.
Here's a recording I did a little while ago that I'm very proud of, but was before my most recent string of upgrades. No digital fixing/eding, no Preamp or A/D converter, and in a little club right by the bar where there was a lot of talking. An accurate and unedited example of what you can expect with this setup and if I'm able to do it, it's definately idiot proof :)
HMK-H8K Mics, T-Bar, Shockmounts $123
Stand $45
Cables (AT XLRs, XLR > Mini) $60
ART Phantom II $50
CJB3 (Used) $125
Total: $403
http://www.archive.org/details/skellogg2006-04-20.SMK-H8K
Good luck!
***modified the link to the show, I listed the wrong one***
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also church-audio is a good plaace to find good quality, and relativvely low priced gear. A friend of mine is starting out on some church-auddio gear. plus church-audio is a member here. also check out the gear loaner thread too.
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DMBprez - I can't reiterate enough the value of listening to lots of recordings made using the mics/equipment you're considering getting. Soak up all the info about the recording (like the location from which it was recorded, stealth or permission, etc.).
The recent Oysterhead sources from Bonnaroo are perfect for this. There were (I think) 5 different rigs set up by the SBD:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=66945.0
Terry
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Okay folks, I'm torn here. First off, thank you all for you input. I have learned a lot in here and I appreciate everything you all have to offer.
Here's my dilema, I'm torn between two sets of mics.
The SPCMC-2a's and the SMK-H8k's. Any suggestions or input would be greatly appreciated :).
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Thank you very much for your help Shane. :)
strongly suggest you spend a bit more and get the better sounding and much smaller AKG 390 series mic, pair it with an Edirol UA5 and a JB3 and you are all set to make excellent tapes for a very affordable price
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Okay folks, I'm torn here. First off, thank you all for you input. I have learned a lot in here and I appreciate everything you all have to offer.
Here's my dilema, I'm torn between two sets of mics.
The SPCMC-2a's and the SMK-H8k's. Any suggestions or input would be greatly appreciated :).
another piece of advice here, splurge on your mics and get everything else used and as cheaply as possible; if you have lousy sounding mics, you will never make great recordings despite what you run behind them; when I bought my first rig, I did the exact opposite of this, bought inexpensive mics, a new and expensive preamp/analog to digital converter, and the top of the line new dat machine; needless to say, I replaced my mics within six months
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Can someone provide me a link to the AKG 390's? Any input or suggestions on these?
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I got a GREAT tape of the Iguanas Firday with my 391s. Here's a little info on them...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C391B/
It doesn't look like there have been any for sale here in a few months, but when I got mine they were everywhere. Expect to pay anywhere between $300 and $450 for a pair. The body of the mic is the SE300B and the capsules (or business end) are the CK91 (cardoid), CK92 (Omnidirectional) and CK93 (Hyperdardoid). I have the 91 and 93 caps and they work a little differently in different situations. Basically the 93 has a narrower pickup pattern, which is helpful if you are farther away from the source or in a particularly noisy crowd. I like the 91s as an all purpose cap.
Here's a pair on ebay for $600 BIN. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7361214046&category=41466 That's a litlte more than you would expect to pay here if they some up, but still about half of what you'd pay for a pair new.
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I agree with everbody, and I took their advice only a few months ago. Grider especially.
http://www.archive.org/details/duo2006-04-13.flac16
Do as much listening as you can before you buy. (but i totally understand if you cant wait, niether coukd I)
tim
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I'm going to be completely honest, those mics are way out of my price range unfortunately. Perhaps in a few years. I'm only 17 at this point and don't have that much to toss around.
Any more suggestions?
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SP c4s then.
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I'm going to be completely honest, those mics are way out of my price range unfortunately. Perhaps in a few years. I'm only 17 at this point and don't have that much to toss around.
Any more suggestions?
for an inexpensive set of mics look into the oktava mk-012's...
i run them into a ua-5>jukebox 3 and love the results
i picked mine up for $100 for the pair and love every second of the 200+ shows i've taped in the last 3 years
yes...there are considerably better mics. but for the price...there is no going wrong :)
plus next year after graduation you can always pick up a set of akg's w/ all the graduation party money ;)
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^^^Exactly what I was thinking ;D.
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tapinfool has made some absolutely smoking tapes with his oktavas and i have proof! ;D
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Some good advice so far. The only thing I would add is that you need to consider whether you will be stealthing at all, either non-taper friendly bands or taper-friendly bands at non-friendly venues.
If you think you may need to stealth, I'd look at Audio Technica AT853s or the Sound Professionals SP-CMC-4 version of the same mics. These are a good choice to get started IMO, since they offer quite decent quality and have interchangeable capsules available (cardioids, hypercardiods, omnis) so you can really experiment with different setups for different situations. Plus, even if you buy some really nice open-taping mics down the road, you can hold onto these for stealthing. Whereas if you go with the cheap open-taping mics you may not have much use for them once the upgrade bug bites.
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why don't you buy the Audio Technica 825's for sale right now in the yardsale for $245, well known quality mics, can be used for open taping or for stealth taping, and they are easily resold, and very small, I'd say get those over Oktavas for sure
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I got total sticker shock in the begining too when I was considering buy mics new (which for a starter, isn't really neccessary since everyone around her take such good care of their gear) I was considering buyin two new mics from sonicsence.com for like 550 EACH!!!
I think I only paid 400 for a PAIR of AKG393s, shock mounts, and a real nice manafrotto stand from Jay Morris a while back. I made payments every month for 150 or so till i was paid off then he shipped the stuff to me - it was very doable financially and very friendly transaction.
My two bits... buy used from a TS'er, and buy good, not great gear, so your not upgrading a 6 weeks. Payment plans are the way to go for tight budget folks like me.
tim
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You may also want to consider the MSH-1A omnis being discussed in the Microphones section right now.
A matched pair is $45 and they compare quite favorably to much higher priced mics.
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Oyster, I sent you an email
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Welcome.
This is all fantastic advice I received a few months ago - the fine folks on this site are fanatasic - if you'd like to ask some other starter questions to a rela-tively-newbie, send me a personal message thru the TS boards.
This site is so helpful. Thanks to every one who takes the time.
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and you saw this huh?
http://www.google.com/ig?hl=en
happy spending.
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Okay Folks,
I have decided to buy the SMK-H8K's. Can some of you help me out with providing links as to where to buy the other stuff. Here's the package I'm getting, can you provide me with the other stuff I need? Thank you so much again for all of your help.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Superlux-SMKH8K-Stereo-Matched-Condensers-KIT_W0QQitemZ260016184018QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Okay Folks,
I have decided to buy the SMK-H8K's. Can some of you help me out with providing links as to where to buy the other stuff. Here's the package I'm getting, can you provide me with the other stuff I need? Thank you so much again for all of your help.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Superlux-SMKH8K-Stereo-Matched-Condensers-KIT_W0QQitemZ260016184018QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Same thing I got
2 XLR cables
Depending on what you can spend
http://cgi.ebay.com/ART-Phantom-III-3-48v-power-supply-condenser-mic-NEW_W0QQitemZ110018933742QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3278QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and then some XLR to 1/8th cable
If you have the money
edirol UA-5 digi moded with a battery, 200ish put an ISO in yard sale and check ebay
Then a recorder
Nomad JB3 100-150 from lawn sale
or
if your buget gets tight mabey a mini disk, but the JB3 would be much better
You neen a stand
http://cgi.ebay.com/13-TALL-PRO-HEAVY-DUTY-AIR-CUSHIONED-LIGHT-STANDS-NEW_W0QQitemZ7623073453QQihZ017QQcategoryZ30080QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or check the prices here
http://photography.search.ebay.com/_Booms-Stands-Supports_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ88665QQsassZamvonaQ2ecom
hope this helps
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Thank you so much.
Do you have a link for the cables?
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Thank you so much.
Do you have a link for the cables?
http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Microphone-Cables-XLR-to-XLR--2368
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Which do I need and how many?
I'm sorry for all the questions, thanks again so much for your help. :)
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I would go for some Canare's Starquards XLRs. You will need two (one for each microphone), and probably the best length would be 15'. I saw a post that someone got a pair for $60 from Sharon (her ebay login is hsdropout). Hope that helps.
Edit: Link to people commenting on Sharon's Canares:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=63881.0
Also, welcome to the hobby!
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Thanks so much.
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dont forget youre going to need to supply power to those mics somehow. either a preamp to supply phantom power to the mics via the xlr cables or some mics have slot to put batteries in them. nakamichi have internal bnattery stuff.
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dont forget youre going to need to supply power to those mics somehow. either a preamp to supply phantom power to the mics via the xlr cables or some mics have slot to put batteries in them. nakamichi have internal bnattery stuff.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ART-Phantom-III-3-48v-power-supply-condenser-mic-NEW_W0QQitemZ110018933742QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3278QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and then some XLR to 1/8th cable
If you have the money
edirol UA-5 digi moded with a battery, 200ish put an ISO in yard sale and check ebay
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Does anyone have an AIM screename that they could help me out on?
I am DMBprez on there.
Any help is greatly appreciated :).
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here is a good deal on a ad-20
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=70045.0
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What does that do?
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What does that do?
The AD20 is a mic preamp and analog>digital convertor. In otherwords, it will take the weak signal from your analog mics and add gain (increase volume) via right and left input dials. It will also convert the analog mic signal into a digital SPDIF signal for recording via the SPDIF input on your recorder.
The AD20 does NOT provide phantom power. Many people get the PS2 for phantom power (powers the mics) as it is matched for use with the AD20.
Terry
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Is it like the Edirol?
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Is it like the Edirol?
yeah but no phantom power
check out this
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=69550.0
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Your final beginner's rig should look similar to this:
SuperLux mics > 2x XLR cables * > PS2 ** (or ART Phantom 3) > AD20 *** > JB3 (or recorder with optical SPDIF input).
* The XLR cables can be bought at most music stores. They have a male 3-pin XLR plug on one end and a female on the other. Get 2 15' cables, you'll need the length once your mics are 10' in the air on the new stand. Find a cheap "light" stand on EBAY (mine was $30), and then buy the mic thread adapter (~$5).
** The PS2 or ART 3 provides Phantom Power. The Superlux requires 48v, which both the PS2 and ART supply. Both run off batteries. Each provides an analog output.
*** You will need to run the phantom line out into a preamp to increase gain (turn up volume). Most recorders have an internal preamp, so this is optional. If you get a Nomad 3, you can run the phantom line-in into the Nomad and use the Nomad's internal preamp to adjust gain. Or you can get an external preamp, like the AD20. Some units include both phantom and preamp in one device. The Sound Devices MP2 is a great example as is the Lunatec V2.
The AD20 is also an analog>digital convertor. This will convert the analog signal to a SPDIF signal that many recorders use. There are 2 kinds of SPDIF - coax (looks like a single RCA plug) or TOSLINK (usually called Optical). The Nomad 3 and most MD players use optical, while most DATs use coax.
Most people like to use external preamps and AD convertors because the separate pieces allow for more fine-tuning of the signal, and also reduces any electronic noise that may be generated from a spinning hard-drive recorder, etc. Plus the more gadgets, the better, right!?!
There are also devices that do all 3 in one box. The UA5 is such a device, although you MUST get one modified for stand-alone use in order for it to be useful. 2 common mods are the Oade Mods (Warm, Presence, Transparent) and the BusMan Mods. The Lunatec V3 is another such device.
As for prices, etc. I'd stick with the SuperLux, get the ART3, and the Nomad 3. For now, these items will give you great starter tapes until you can upgrade. I'd say the first upgrade should be going from ART3 to a UA5.
Other things you'll need:
-cable from ART3 to Nomad 3. You'll have to check with the ART3 to see exactly what you need...
-carry bag. Some people use a padded 12-pack cooler bag from WalMart. Cheap, padded, water-resistant, and easy.
-flashlight, pens, paper, duct tape, velcro cable-ties...
Good luck!
Terry
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Is it like the Edirol?
Yes, except the Edirol UA5 provides Phantom Power while the AD20 does not. Hence the need for the PS2 or ART3.
Terry
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Is it like the Edirol?
Yes, except the Edirol UA5 provides Phantom Power while the AD20 does not. Hence the need for the PS2 or ART3.
Terry
If you buy mics, like the AKG C1000s, that have their own internal battery, you will not need the PS2. The battery provides the phantom power, therefore the AD20 is all you need.
Terry
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Can I just run:
H8k's->2x XLR Cables->Phantom Supply-> JB3?
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Can I just run:
H8k's->2x XLR Cables->Phantom Supply-> JB3?
Yes. By doing this, you will using the internal preamp and AD convertor inside the Nomad 3 (JB3). Use the Line-In function on the JB3 and you can set the gain (increase the volume). The JB3 will also convert the analog signal to a digital signal.
Depending on the Phantom Power unit you get, you will have to get a cable from it to the Nomad 3. Radio Shack should carry this for cheap, or someone here can make one for you cheap.
*** You will need to run the phantom line out into a preamp to increase gain (turn up volume). Most recorders have an internal preamp, so this is optional. If you get a Nomad 3, you can run the phantom line-in into the Nomad and use the Nomad's internal preamp to adjust gain. Or you can get an external preamp, like the AD20. Some units include both phantom and preamp in one device. The Sound Devices MP2 is a great example as is the Lunatec V2.
Terry
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??? the jb3 can do an a>d :o
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??? the jb3 can do an a>d :o
Via the line-in. There is no digi-out though, so no, its not a true ADC. It just has one inside to convert its analog Line-In to WAV for saving to the HD.
Terry
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And later on I can buy the Edirol and add it in, correct?
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And later on I can buy the Edirol and add it in, correct?
yes and then dumb the power supply
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??? the jb3 can do an a>d :o
it can, but not very well.
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just for refrence, the Lunatec V3 is a great preamp, it can provide phantom power, is an a>d convertyer, and can ive both spdif and optical outs, and is super easy to use. >:D
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How much can I get one of those for?
I'm 17, my budget is tight at this point.
Thanks so much for all of your help btw, Terry, Sven, Run.
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And later on I can buy the Edirol and add it in, correct?
yes and then dumb the power supply
"dump" the power supply. He means you can replace the Phantom Power unit with the UA5 as the UA5 also provides Phantom Power. I use the UA5. If you look in my signature, you can see I use ADK TLs (mics) > UA5 (phantom, preamp, AD) > JB3 (recorder).
The most common taping rig today is probably the Studio Projects C4 > UA5 > JB3.
The Lunatec V3 is awesome!!! and about $1000.
Terry
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Hahahaha, the Lunatec is definetly out of the question at this point. The Edirol will be a Christmas addition to my Rig.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Superlux-SMKH8K-Stereo-Matched-Condensers-KIT_W0QQitemZ260016184018QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
How can I connect these mics to this stand?
http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNATRAN-PRO-PHOTO-STUDIO-LIGHT-STAND-SUPPORT-AS-9110_W0QQitemZ200015543384QQihZ010QQcategoryZ30080QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Anyone know of an adapter?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Superlux-SMKH8K-Stereo-Matched-Condensers-KIT_W0QQitemZ260016184018QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
How can I connect these mics to this stand?
http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNATRAN-PRO-PHOTO-STUDIO-LIGHT-STAND-SUPPORT-AS-9110_W0QQitemZ200015543384QQihZ010QQcategoryZ30080QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Anyone know of an adapter?
Google search of "mic thread adapter" revealed this:
http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=215&off=2&sort=prod
What kind of adapter depends on the threading that comes with the light stand you buy. There are several different kinds.
Terry
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Can you not tell the type of threading by the link I provided?
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Can you not tell the type of threading by the link I provided?
No, I would assume (which is generally bad) that it is 5/8" camera threading from the image in the Specifications.
Contact the seller and ask them.
Terry
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Yes, it is. I can get a clamp right?
Or is there hope for me to get an adaptor?
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Yes, it is. I can get a clamp right?
Or is there hope for me to get an adaptor?
I have two of the Amvona stands. One of them has a 1/4" thread on the top and I have an adaptor that goes from that to 5/8" (which is typical microphone stand size) and the other has no thread. It looks like the one you got has no thread. On that one you can either use one of these "stand fittings" (scroll down) http://www.micsupply.com/standaccessories.htm or just get it over with and go with a clamp. I like the clamp idea because you will be able to use it all the time regardless of whether you bring a stand or not. I (as well as many other people here) suggest the windtech mpc10
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=GvDG3G7zp1!1119361806?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=298908&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
By the way, if you do have a stand with threads on the top of it, PM me, I can fix you up. :)
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Superlux-SMKH8K-Stereo-Matched-Condensers-KIT_W0QQitemZ260016184018QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
How can I connect these mics to this stand?
http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNATRAN-PRO-PHOTO-STUDIO-LIGHT-STAND-SUPPORT-AS-9110_W0QQitemZ200015543384QQihZ010QQcategoryZ30080QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Anyone know of an adapter?
Google search of "mic thread adapter" revealed this:
http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=215&off=2&sort=prod
What kind of adapter depends on the threading that comes with the light stand you buy. There are several different kinds.
Terry
I have that stand, its just a 5/8 stud. I went with a clamp.
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This guy has a few different adapters: http://www.equipmentemporium.com/MicSupport.htm
A clamp will come in handy too...
Terry
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??? the jb3 can do an a>d :o
it can, but not very well.
Actually, the A/D on the JB3 has been shown to be on par (actually slightly better) than the one in a Sony PCM-M1. The front end line input amps have less distortion than the front end of a PCM-M1, too, and are less likely to brickwall on you. I don't know why people are always bashing the JB3's A/D converter. It works great. It's just not as good as you can do with a properly modified SBM-1 or a AD20 or a UA-5 or a V3 or a minime, etc... When you go to one of those, you'll see a modest improvement in S/N, provided that you set your levels correctly. Still, you should expect better than 90 dB S/N using the JB3 alone. It does a surprisingly good job on its own.
FYI, I own several UA-5's and I consider them to be the sweet spot in the price/performance curve for live recording equipment. I generally run a set of SMK-H8K's into one UA-5 > optical > JB3 and a SBD feed to another UA-5 > optical > JB3 and mix the recordings in post. I'm fortunate to own two UA-5's that have very little unit-to-unit timing skew.
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This is my rig and I am stoked with the results!
Studio Projects C4's $260
15' Canare Star Quads $30
Denecke PS-2 $80
Audio Technica CP8201 (Lo Z > Hi Z) Line Transformers $30
Hosa YMP-137 (For AUD Recordings) $5
Hosa YXF-247 (For SBD Recordings) $5
Sony PCM-M1 DAT Recorder ($300 (4 Years Ago)
I have pulled some great recordings with this rig! That's only $610 for my rige. Knock another $100 off if you went with a JB3 for around $510.
Here is a link to a show I recently recorded with this rig:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=27835
Good luck!
Ryan
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Can I just run:
H8k's->2x XLR Cables->Phantom Supply-> JB3?
Yes, but no. The signal level won't be very strong and you can only get so much gain from the JB3. You can boost the levels on your computer later, but it's not the same. For a while I ran Superlux SMK-H8K's> XLR cables> ART Phantom II> Audio Technica CP8201 line transformers (see Cheesecadet's post above)> JB3 and still wasn't satisfied with the signal unless it was a really loud show.
FYI - those line transformers definitely add some much needed gain (it's a fixed amount) and they're very affordable ($30), but I quickly discovered that it wasn't enough and moved to the UA-5. Find a stock UA-5 and have it modd'ed by Busman2 (a member here) - I can't recommend that enough!
I've made decent tapes with my Luxes and a couple that are GREAT, but I've got the bug to upgrade - and unforunately no budget to back that up! A few months ago I scored a pair of AT853's from eBay for a reasonable price. I'm VERY pleased with their sound and they're compact enough for unobtrusive (stealth) recording. Stealth use and a variety of capsulesare definitely some things to consider if you haven't already pulled the trigger on the Superluxes. I know there is a hypercard cap for the Superluxes, but they cost almost as much as the entire mic set! For that price you might as well get the Studio Projects C4's....
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As far as the line transformers go...
Here's my experience, I run the C4's > PS-2 > AT CP8201 > M1 (Line In)
I have never had a problem not having enough gain using the transformers.
I run line-In into my M1 and the record volume on my M1 is Around 5 - 51/2 out of 10 on the dial.
Another bit of info...
My PS-2 will run for about 61/2 - 7 hours on 1 - Duracell 9v battery running my C4's. This is a relatively cheap rig that pulls great tapes!
For what it's worth... =^)
Ryan
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Okay folks.
The SMK's arrived at my door this evening.
I now have the stand and the mics.
Can you folks provide me with links to these: (please go as cheap as possible, I'm quickly running out of $$$)
Phantom Power
Cables
Something to boost my gain (Cheap please)
JB3
And anything else you think I NEED.
Thank you so much. :)
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Have a money figure on how much you can spend on the rest? I would come up with one and we should be able to help you more. You probably will have to skip the gain part for now, unless you want to get a stock UA-5 (which can be found for cheap). Neither the Art 3 or Deneke PS-2 provide gain.
Edit: Also forgot to mention that the JB3 does provide gain so you can do it then. Or if is too low you can always bump it up in post.
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What's a "stock" UA5?
A non-stock UA5?
Sorry for the n00b questions.
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definately get a preamp from church-audio (which should take caree of phantom power and preamp gain isssues, hopefully a a>d)
pm church-audio on this board, very reliable product and affordable.
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Sorry for the confusion. What I meant was a UA-5 that has been not modded as far as sound goes. A lot of people run UA-5 that have either been modded by Busman2 or Doug Oade. These range from 300-600 depending on the mod. A stock one is cheaper. If you plan to run optical in on the JB3, you will need to have a digi-mod UA-5. The UA-5 does have optical out, but it was initailly setup so you have to run a laptop via the usb out and the digi-out at the same time. With the digi-mod you can by-pass the need to have a laptop and just run digi-out.
If you have any more questions, let me know. I can meet you AIM.
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Any particular pre amps you recommend?
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Cheap please... :)
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The Phantom III runs off betteries right?
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I looked up the ART Phantom 3 some more and from the looks of it, it only takes one xlr in and one out. The ART 2 looks like it can take can take 2 in and 2 out. Not 100% sure about the ART since there doesn't seem to be any picuters of the sides, but this pdf seems to say only one:
http://www.musicworksgroup.com/docdownloads/PhantomIII.pdf
Edit:
Looks like the ART 2 can also be run off of 2 9v batteries so that would definately a good option for you Chris. A few links to get one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110021171017&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX_Stores&refitem=110018933742&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget#ebayphotohosting
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Phantom2/
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That makes sense, thank you so much.
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definately get a preamp from church-audio (which should take caree of phantom power and preamp gain isssues, hopefully a a>d)
pm church-audio on this board, very reliable product and affordable.
his pre's are not phantom powered
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The Art II is the least expensive phantom option I know of, but there may be others. For inexpensive but clean gain, try a pair of line transformers like the Hosa MIT-176 or Audio Technica SP8201 (maybe $40/pr). For inexpensive recorders, consider the JB3, iRiver, and various MD units. I believe all of those have a 1/8" stereo input, so you'll need a 2 x 1/4" > 1/8" stereo mini adapter. So, the gear over all would like like this:
SMK mics > mic cables (any inexpensive pair will do) > Art II (phantom) > Hosa MIT-176 (gain) > 2 x 1/4"-female | 1/8"-male stereo mini > recorder
The MIT-176 and CP8201 provide fixed gain, so you'll use your recorder to adjust levels. As ScottT suggested earlier, though, if you don't get enough gain out of the line transformers, there's really not much you can do except boost levels in post-production. You could replace the line transformers with an AD-20 (preamp w/o phantom and ADC), or the Art II and line transformers with a digi-mod UA5 (preamp w/ phantom and ADC) or Sound Devices MixPre or MP2 (preamp w/ phantom only). But each of those options will cost you ~$100-250 more than the Art II + line transformers.
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http://www.music123.com/Hosa-MIT176-i13238.music
Is that what I will need? Those will run from the Phantom into the JB3?
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http://www.music123.com/Hosa-MIT176-i13238.music
Is that what I will need? Those will run from the Phantom into the JB3?
NO
if you wanted to go from the art2 > jb3 you would need this type of cable
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-XLRF-MINI-2
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Okay, so I decided to get the MIT's.
Are these what I'm looking for?
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOSA-MIT-176-Mic-Transformer-XLR-Female-LO-Z-1-4-M_W0QQitemZ7408320514QQcategoryZ23783QQcmdZViewItem
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Okay, so I decided to get the MIT's.
Are these what I'm looking for?
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOSA-MIT-176-Mic-Transformer-XLR-Female-LO-Z-1-4-M_W0QQitemZ7408320514QQcategoryZ23783QQcmdZViewItem
That's them, yes. Hopefully they'll give you enough gain, though ScottT's account suggests that may not be the case. Depends on how loud the sound source is that you're recording.
http://www.music123.com/Hosa-MIT176-i13238.music
Is that what I will need? Those will run from the Phantom into the JB3?
The JB3 has a 1/8" female stereo connector. So, whatever gear is immediately upstream of the JB3 needs to have either <1> an 1/8" male stereo connector, or you need adapters between the upstream piece of gear that converts its outputs to an 1/8" male stereo connector.
For example, if you run mics > Art II phantom power > JB3 (which probably won't provide enough gain, but for the sake of example let's continue). The Art II outputs via two male XLR connectors. So, you'd need an adapter cable between the Art II and JB3 that has two female XLR connectors on one end, and an 1/8" male stereo connector on the other end. Like this (http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=AdptMniSP2Fxlr&preadd=action):
(http://www.audiogear.com/Resources/~AdptMniSP2Fxlr)
Another example, if you run mics > Art II phantom power > Hosa MIT-176 line transformers > JB3 (which may provide enough gain...hopefully). The mics, Art II, and Hosa MIT-176 will connect just fine, but you'll need an adapter between the MIT-176 and JB3. Each MIT-176 terminates in a 1/4" male mono connector, so you'll need an adapter between the MIT-176 and JB3, specifically an adapter with two 1/4" female mono connectors on one side, and an 1/8" male stereo connector on the other. Like this (http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=AdptMnipto2Qmf&preadd=action):
(http://www.audiogear.com/Resources/~AdptMnipto2Qmf)
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Thanks a ton Bri.
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Okay, so let me make sure I'm doing this correctly. Please someone check over my work if I'm incorrect.
Mic's
2 of these XLR's ( http://www.zzounds.com/item--WHRMC20 ) Will those work?
Phantom ( http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Phantom2/ ) Will that work?
MIT's ( http://cgi.ebay.com/HOSA-MIT-176-Mic-Transformer-XLR-Female-LO-Z-1-4-M_W0QQitemZ7408320514QQcategoryZ23783QQcmdZViewItem )
Adapter ( http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103237&cp=&pg=2&origkw=mini+to+mini&kw=mini+to+mini&parentPage=search )
JB3
Please verify the links, those are the ones that I will be buying from.
Thanks so much.
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Yeah, that looks right. I'd recommend a different (2) 1/4"-female > 1/8"-male stereo adapter, though. The RS one listed will result in a long, bulky adapter sticking out of the JB3. Makes it easy to accidently apply pressure to the connection and may damage the JB3's 1/8" input. Better to have the 2 x 1/4"-female end of the adapter uncoupled from the 1/8"-male stereo connector by a little bit of cable, like the image to which I linked earlier. Oughta be able to find one for a similar price as the RS one, but not sure where just now.
Like this one, 6th down:
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/adapters-14.html
Wrong wrong wrong ^^^^^^
This thread reached 15 pages because of me - as others have pointed out, that's a 2 x 1/4" stereo > 1/8" stereo adapter. Need a 2 x 1/4" MONO > 1/8" stereo adapter.
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Part # 35-556 ?
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Part # 35-556 ?
Yup, that's the one. Doesn't have to be that specific part from that specific retailer, but the pigtail style will help reduce stress on the JB3s 1/8" connector.
NO!! This thread reached 15 pages because of me - as others have pointed out, that's a 2 x 1/4" stereo > 1/8" stereo adapter. Need a 2 x 1/4" MONO > 1/8" stereo adapter.
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Thanks so much again, Bri.
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nevermind, looked at the wrong link
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Okay, so I decided to get the MIT's.
Are these what I'm looking for?
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOSA-MIT-176-Mic-Transformer-XLR-Female-LO-Z-1-4-M_W0QQitemZ7408320514QQcategoryZ23783QQcmdZViewItem
once again NO :)
check the post right above yours
the JB3 has a 1/8 stereo plug
the link you posted is a 1/4 mono
He indicated he's going to get the Hosa MIT-176 line transformers. And the eBay link he provided is for the MIT-176. So, YES, those are what he's looking for. But he also needs adapters to convert the 2 x 1/4" male mono connectors to an 1/8" male stereo connector (as already referenced in previous posts).
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Okay, so I decided to get the MIT's.
Are these what I'm looking for?
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOSA-MIT-176-Mic-Transformer-XLR-Female-LO-Z-1-4-M_W0QQitemZ7408320514QQcategoryZ23783QQcmdZViewItem
once again NO :)
check the post right above yours
the JB3 has a 1/8 stereo plug
the link you posted is a 1/4 mono
He indicated he's going to get the Hosa MIT-176 line transformers. And the eBay link he provided is for the MIT-176. So, YES, those are what he's looking for. But he also needs adapters to convert the 2 x 1/4" male mono connectors to an 1/8" male stereo connector (as already referenced in previous posts).
yeah i just noticed that, YES those are them lol
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http://www.zzounds.com/item--WHRMC20
The first cable will work right? I need two?
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Yes it will work, and yes, you need two. :coolguy:
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You guys and girls are insanely helpful, thank you very much.
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You guys and girls are insane
yes, many among us are...
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Why not do it cheap and easy to start?
Get a Edirol R-9
AKG C1000s->Edirol R-9
That's what I am going to do :)
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What did you end up doing?
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I have the SMK's, I have the stand, cables, and a few other things. I still need gain chords and the power source. Kind of hit a wall financially.
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stick with it - its great when it all comes together... finally.
www.timscales.net/bag4.jpg
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Thanks :)
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Thanks :)
What else do you need? I have some XLR cables lying around.
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I've got those. But thanks so much. :)
I need a power supply and a JB3.
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Do you mean a phantom power supply?
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Yep.
I'm getting the ART II.
I am also now getting a player. I am definetly leaning towards the iRiver. What's the smallest possible one I could get? I really don't feel like breaking the bank on this.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/s:MP3%20Players:browsename=All%20MP3%20Players:4168-Brand=iRiver:refspaceid=37532665;_ylt=AkncLXZX6n9VTfzbsr0wtpZJj3UC;_ylu=X3oDMTBmNzVhaTljBF9zAwRzZWMDd2VzdG5hdg--?y=g
There's a list of a bunch of them. Thanks a ton for yall of your help in advance :).
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I am also now getting a player. I am definetly leaning towards the iRiver. What's the smallest possible one I could get? I really don't feel like breaking the bank on this.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/s:MP3%20Players:browsename=All%20MP3%20Players:4168-Brand=iRiver:refspaceid=37532665;_ylt=AkncLXZX6n9VTfzbsr0wtpZJj3UC;_ylu=X3oDMTBmNzVhaTljBF9zAwRzZWMDd2VzdG5hdg--?y=g
There's a list of a bunch of them. Thanks a ton for yall of your help in advance :).
None of the players listed, you want one that will record in .wav. Try ebay for an H120 or H140.
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Also remember that the iHP-120/140 are the exact same thing as the H-120/140. Watch the auctions, I got mine for $77.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/AS-IS-Creative-Labs-NOMAD-Jukebox-3-20GB-MP3-Player_W0QQitemZ320033267401QQihZ011QQcategoryZ75464QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Will that work too?
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i would be scared of this.
Functional Condition: Damaged - SOLD AS IS
Cosmetic Condition: Some fine scratches or minor scuffs
Testing Notes: This item is not in the original box.
The item has some damage or imperfection as noted here, and is sold AS IS..
NOTE: Unit powers on, but screen does not display anything. Items Included:
NOMAD JUKEBOX
AC ADAPTER
POWER CORD
BATTERY
HEADPHONES
Items NOT included:
USB CABLE
MANUAL
SOFTWARE
THIS ITEM MAY BE DAMAGED OR NOT WORKING
No returns will be accepted.
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I'm just using this as comparison. That's what I'm looking for right?
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I was thinking about these two here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290035095489&fromMakeTrack=true
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150041885773&fromMakeTrack=true
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I was thinking about these two here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290035095489&fromMakeTrack=true
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150041885773&fromMakeTrack=true
The first is a Jukebox 6gig, it records via the line-in. Not sure how well this performs, I've never seen one oused for taping.
The second is the Jukebox 3 that lots of people (including me) use here on TS. It has a SPDIF input.
Terry
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I would have to point you towards the iriver hp120 instead of the NJB3. I'm somewhat bais though, since I've had problems w/ mine. Already replaced the HD in one, and the other seems to be going now too. Dispite my troubles, you may not have ANY problems.
There are other advantages to consider:
-Less expensive.
-I hear about less issues w/ the internal HD and/or overheating than the NJB3
-It has 2 lossless options to transfer the recording off the unit: 1) usb -> computer
2) optical-out > stand-alone CD burner.
As far as the Pre-Amp/ ADC, I would agree with those who recommended the all-in-one Digi-modded Edirol UA-5. \f you can hold out 'till christmas, you'll be all set then.
-Kevin
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Can you provide me with a link from Ebay for the h120 or h140? I am coming up empty here for some odd reason.
Thanks a ton for your help in advance.
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Can you provide me with a link from Ebay for the h120 or h140? I am coming up empty here for some odd reason.
Thanks a ton for your help in advance.
Some iHP-120s, same thing as the H-120.
Click (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=iriver+ihp+120&category0=)
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Thanks so much.
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Okay, I bought the Phantom. I will need to switch it to the 48V when using, correct?
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Correct.
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Okay, any suggestions other the Edirol for a Preamp? I don't know if I'm going to be able to stretch $300.
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Okay, any suggestions other the Edirol for a Preamp? I don't know if I'm going to be able to stretch $300.
Not too much 24bit Pre-amp/AD's out there for less than 300... you could get an Analog -> Digital Converter to control the levels, but these aren't Pre-amps per-sey.
Deneke AD-20 (20-bit/44.1khz)
Analog Input= xlr, Digital output= Optical, powered by 9v battery or external battery pack. Normally, these are $300 new, so anything $120 is a pretty good deal. The post says that there maybe something wrong w/ the power input, but it sounds like he was using a flaky battery pack/cable. You could always run the 9v battery anyway.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=70077.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=70077.0)
Graham Patton ADC-20 (20-bit/44.1khz)
Analog Input= xlr, Digital output= AES3 xlr, BNC Coax
Not sure what he wants for it, but you maybe snatch it up for $100? GP use to sell these for 5x's that price new. Requires an external battery pack/charger unless you run AC. The other catch is that you need a Digital format converter to go from coax digital to optical digital or AES3 digital to Optical digital. For instance, my odl312/cable ran me $60. Biggest drawback I think is having to run and power an additional unit. This is similar to what I run (GP DMIC-20) just w/out the preamp electronics inside. Same issue w/ the DMIC-20, you need a DFC to get to optical, great sounding if you ask me though.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=71607.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=71607.0)
Can't really think of anything else worth purchasing in the meantime. I would hold out for the UA-5 if possible.
-Kevin
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How easy is the UA-5 to use?
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How easy is the UA-5 to use?
extremly...the only part that took me anytime was learning to adjust the levels, b/c it doesnt have meter lights...only a single clip light...but i picked it up by the 2nd or 3rd time out with it...it quickly becomes second nature. also, for about hte same price, I have this for sale, and it is super easy to run...as easy as the ua5, and is stealthable (if you need it), but its only 24bit...and needs a digital input on the recorder http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=70630.0
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How easy is the UA-5 to use?
Easy. Once powered on, its just a matter of adjusting the levels (right and left).
Terry
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How easy is the UA-5 to use?
Pretty damn simple. If I can use one.... anyone can.
I ran mine (BM2P+ mod) for the first time Friday night (Justin Rutledge CD release show) and it sounds far better than anything I've used before. It cost me more money than I initially wanted to spend as I had to buy the UA5, get it modded, buy a DVD battery to run it, SVU-1 for metering and, beg someone to do the whole 'reverse polarity' thing for me ( Thanks ;) ) but listening to that recording on the way home that night made it all worth it.
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How easy is the UA-5 to use?
extremly...the only part that took me anytime was learning to adjust the levels, b/c it doesnt have meter lights...only a single clip light...but i picked it up by the 2nd or 3rd time out with it...it quickly becomes second nature...
Piece of cake. You could D/L the manual also if you haven't already just to familiarize your self w/ the unit options:
http://www.taperssection.com/reference/pdf/Manual_EdirolUA5.pdf (http://www.taperssection.com/reference/pdf/Manual_EdirolUA5.pdf)
Someone mentioned running a level meter box... comes in handy when the recorder has an inaccurate metering system, but I think the iriver's meters will be fine. Just keep track of where the levels hit on the iriver when the Ua-5 clips and shoot for something slightly below that and you'll be good.
-K
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I literally have no experience in leveling or microphones. I'm basically going into this blindly. Any tips with the UA5.
Also, what do I have to do with the iRiver? Any settings?
Sorry for the newb questions, but I suppose that's what this thread's all about. :)
Thanks in advance.
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The iRiver FAQ thread in the Archive section ought to answer almost every question you have. It's very easy to get Rockbox installed and once it is, it's very easy to use. The levels on the iRiver are very good, and you have a couple different looks you can use when you're recording, whichever suits you. Monitoring levels is pretty easy when you look at it. You want the levels hot (high), but not high enough to clip off a lot of your recording. Rockbox has a clip light built in, so if you do clip, the backlight on the screen will light up and you'll know to knock them down a little. You can definitely get the hang of it quickly.
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Someone mentioned running a level meter box... comes in handy when the recorder has an inaccurate metering system, but I think the iriver's meters will be fine
The IRivers meters do just fine if you have the unit in hand and can watch the levels. Another nice touch is the ability to set the backlight to go on once you peak. However, if you are not always going to be right next to your gear an SVU1 can be really nice. I have both an R-9 and an R-4 which have good meters but I still use the SVU1 anytime I may not be right next to my gear. I like being able to wonder away from my gear to talk with friends, dance, etc and still be able to watch the levels from almost anywhere.
Stay Kind,
Dana
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Thank you very much Ryan and Dana, your patience is greatly appreciated. Sorry for all the n00b questions.
But yes, I have yet another.
When I do get the UA5, where does it go?
I am running:
SMK's -> XLR's-> Phantom -> MIT 176's -> iRiver.
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You have a perfectly useful rig right now, you just need an adapter to go from the transformers to the iRiver's line-in.
Then benefits of the UA-5 are that it does phantom power and analog to digital conversion in one box, along with level adjustment, and it sounds good too. So when you get it, your rig will look something like:
SMK's > XLR > UA-5 > Optical Cable > iRiver
You won't need the phantom supply anymore, since the UA-5 provides that for you, and it will also likely eliminate the need for the transformers, but you should keep them around in the event of a really hot situation, like a hyper soundboard feed. The UA-5 also gives you more inputs, so you could run multiple sets of microphones (for which you would want to keep the phantom supply) or a soundboard+audience matrix.
But by all means, get yourself a few dollar adapter and go tape some stuff now. Get a feel for the iRiver and see what you like. +T.
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But by all means, get yourself a few dollar adapter and go tape some stuff now.
True that!
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Oh, I've got the adapter. And I will be taping ;D
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Oh, I've got the adapter. And I will be taping ;D
SWEET!!! What are you rolling for?
-K
EDIT:
Here's your UA5:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=72722.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=72722.0)
;D
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My goal is Government Mule on Dec 3rd.
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Mule is a fun show. Good choice.
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Okay folks,
I thought I'd give you all an update since you guys have been insanely helpful.
My stand has been altered a bit. I chopped off the tip and grinded the tip down a bit then used a die to thread the tip. Now my mic mount just screws right on. I now have a perfect stand, gets me giddy just looking at it.
I have bought everything, BUT, the JB3 or iRiver. Still in search of my cheapest one. Anyone who thinks they can help me out, that'd be greatly appreciated. I already started a thread in the Yard Sale section. *Crosses fingers.*
Thanks again for all your help.
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You can find refurbished iHP-120s on eBay for about $120 all the time. You can also find some non refurb used ones missing the remote, headphones, etc for around $100 if you get lucky. Stuff that you really don't need for recording. CJB3s seemed to have gone down in price for a while, but are now back on the rise. I'm on my second CJB3 and absolutely love them so it pains me to say that a rockboxed iRiver is probably the better and cheaper option now. Much better level indicators, more/cheaper battery options, smaller size, and more readily available.
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Okay, I have an offer for a JB3, and hopefully I can get it thru overnight mail.
I have the Black Crowes show on Friday, really want to tape.
What do I have to do with the JB3? I will probably be getting it the afternoon of the concert if all goes well.
Anything I should know?
Thanks guys.
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Not a whole lot to the JB3. Go to the record audio menu>new recording>monitor recording and select WAV (don't record in mp3, it's easy enough to do), and press the play button to start your recording and the stop button at the end. Lots of info in the JB3 FAQ in the archive section here.
s
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How will I know it's taping correctly?
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when you press the record button.... it will say preparing recording.... then on the left of the screen you will notice that the timer starting showing you how long you have been recording ...... very simple device to use
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Do I need to worry about levels?
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The JB3 level meters are horrible. If it get's to the very top (and it's all or nothing) you're clipping. Check it.
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So, I have no idea what that means. I'm sorry for my n00bness.
Can you take my thru step by step as to what to do if my levels shit the bed?
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Also, is this an okay pre amp?
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALEIO2
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Also, is this an okay pre amp?
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALEIO2
Probably not. It's powered through the USB, so unless you're doing laptop recording, which you aren't if you have the JB3, it won't cut it in the field.
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Also, is this an okay pre amp?
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALEIO2
Probably not. It's powered through the USB, so unless you're doing laptop recording, which you aren't if you have the JB3, it won't cut it in the field.
First things first: it's a preamp and analog-to-digital converter (ADC).
I think the biggest obstacle to field recording with this thing is not so much powering (after all, the MT2496 runs on USB power), but rather interface. Looks like it's only digital output is via USB, so you'd have to use a laptop for field recording. Your JB3, as a purely digital recorder, would be useless paired with this pre/ADC. I suppose you could run analog out to the JB3, but the analog outputs probably run through an AD/DA stage (analog input > ADC > DAC > analog output) and likely don't sound all that great.
Whoops, scanned through the specs too swiftly. Looks like it includes S/PDIF output, but it specifically lists 24-bit S/PDIF input/output. So, two issues: <1> you'd need to convert the S/PDIF coax (I assume coax S/PDIF, specs usually call out optical S/PDIF specifically) to optical, via something like the Hosa ODL-276. And <2> need to find out if it outputs 16-bit. If it can't output 16-bit, only 24-bit, it's no use with your JB3 because the JB3 will truncate the least significant 8-bits.
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So, I have no idea what that means. I'm sorry for my n00bness.
Can you take my thru step by step as to what to do if my levels shit the bed?
Just make sure that the levels don't hit the peak region (you might be okay if it's just momentary here and there, but that's pushing it) and you'll be all good.
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Can you take my thru step by step as to what to do if my levels shit the bed?
Simply turn the levels down. Step-by-step for how you do so depends on what gear you're using. If an external preamp and/or ADC, turn down the levels using the external preamp/ADC. If running analog-in to the JB3, use the JB3 to turn the levels down. I no longer own a JB3, so I can't walk you through step-by-step, but it should be pretty straightforward.
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Okay, I just got the JB3. I need help.
I plug everything in, Mics->XLR->Phantom-> MIT 176's->Converter->JB3. I get the JB3 going and the recording up and the levels arent moving...
Shuold I be concerned?
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Try tapping gently on the capsule of the mic and see what happens. They levels likely won't do anything if you don't provide a decent amount of sound to them.
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Okay, I just got the JB3. I need help.
I plug everything in, Mics->XLR->Phantom-> MIT 176's->Converter->JB3. I get the JB3 going and the recording up and the levels arent moving...
Shuold I be concerned?
Make sure you have the JB3 set to record via "line-in" rather than "optical-in". That should solve the problem... If you tap on a mic, it should register on the meters...
Terry
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Also, I know you want to run Gov't Mule in Dec. I would find a local bar that is taper-friendly and practice taping crappy local bands until you are familiar with your equipment before the Mule show... That way you are familiar with your stuff before showing up at Mule.
One thing to do at these practice sessions is try adjusting your levels at different points in the show. Make notes on a small note pad. Let's say you do song 1 and 2 at "normal" then song 3 and 4 running levels "hot " (higher than normal) and then run the next 2 "cold" (lower than normal). When you get home, you can listen to the difference in each an gauge how "hot" you can run before your recording "clips" (gets all staticky from too much signal).
Terry
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Also, I know you want to run Gov't Mule in Dec. I would find a local bar that is taper-friendly and practice taping crappy local bands until you are familiar with your equipment before the Mule show... That way you are familiar with your stuff before showing up at Mule.
Good idea, but I think he is to young for bars like myself :)
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Okay. So I'm a complete idiot.
I went to the Black Crowes show this evening, amazing btw, but anyway. I was watching my meter all night and all of a sudden I realize... There's only one meter moving up and down, there's two mics... What the hell? Sure enough, get in the car, and it's only playing out of the left side.
The recording was pretty decent, imo. But, now I can't figure out why the hell it only recorded on one side?
Any suggestions?
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And yes, everything was plugged in. I checked that numerous times. ;D
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Try recording something else to the JB# to rule out it's input first of all. CD player>RCA-1/8">JB3 should fit the bill. One thing to be careful of also (and this is all over the FAQ dude... c'mon now) is the lip hanging over the input of the JB3 from the lid. You may want to trim it back. It frequently keeps analog cables from seating fully.
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Player was just used on the 21st to tape the Panic, everything was fine. It must be my equip.
I will check that out.
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Also, I bought this JB3 used. It didnt come with the software, anyone have any suggestions for me? I have no way of getting this recording off. :'(
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Also, I know you want to run Gov't Mule in Dec. I would find a local bar that is taper-friendly and practice taping crappy local bands until you are familiar with your equipment before the Mule show... That way you are familiar with your stuff before showing up at Mule.
One thing to do at these practice sessions is try adjusting your levels at different points in the show. Make notes on a small note pad. Let's say you do song 1 and 2 at "normal" then song 3 and 4 running levels "hot " (higher than normal) and then run the next 2 "cold" (lower than normal). When you get home, you can listen to the difference in each an gauge how "hot" you can run before your recording "clips" (gets all staticky from too much signal).
Terry
Maybe this goes without saying - but I'll throw it out there anyway: do everything Terry suggested, but also do it from different locations within the venue, i.e., in front of the stacks, at the tip of the triangle, back near the soundboard, etc.
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Okay, so the 1/8th adapter wasn't a problem. I tried running mic in instead of line and i got a little more bounce in my right level. Any ideas as to why it won't run line in correctly?
I'll have clips of the tape soon to follow.
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What they're saying isn't really that you probably have a problem with the adapter, but that you might have a problem with the way it seats into the jack. If that turns out to be the case, which it seems it might be if it works on mic-in, see the below.
From Brian Skalinder's JB3 FAQ:
[265] My stereo mini or optical mini connector doesn't quite fit properly in the female mini jack, what can I do?
Some users report poor results from stereo mini or optical mini connectors that don't quite fit properly in the female mini jack. Low levels, mono signal, drop-outs, etc., may all be symptoms of this problem. To ensure you don't have this problem, make sure your mini connector clicks firmly into the female mini jack. Unless the mini connector clicks firmly into the female mini jack, you may encounter this problem in the field. There are at least two solutions:
* Buy a different stereo or optical mini plug and see if it fits better
* Use a Dremel or similar tool to sand down the plastic casing which prevents some mini connectors from seating properly in the female jack. Thanks to David Klein for the directions paraphrased here (for David's complete set of directions with pictures, see http://ca.geocities.com/dkleined@rogers.com/audio/:
o place a piece of masking tape over the female mini jack
o put a tapered grinding tip on your Dremel
o hold the NJB3 firmly and start to grind down the plastic
o be careful not to grind the white input jack itself!
o stop and use your finger to feel the ridge to tell when you're close to grinding the plastic flush with the face of the jack
o clean off the NJB3
o remove the masking tape
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I trimmed it down, doesn't seem to work. I ran a 1/8th->1/8th from my iPod to my JB3 (line in) and the levels were fine. There's something in my equipment that's just not right.
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Also, I bought this JB3 used. It didnt come with the software, anyone have any suggestions for me? I have no way of getting this recording off. :'(
I use a mac w/ "XNJB" software, so I don't even use the Creative PC Software that came w/ mine. I can send it to 'ya if you can't D/L it from the 'net. FYI it's a copy from an Ebay company, not the original. PM me w/ you address info.
Sorry to hear you're having a channel drop-out on 'ya... run some rig tests in your house in front of a speaker... wiggle connects etc. and see what is the culpret. Done that myself many of times.
-Kevin
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The recording came out okay though :(. You can download it here, I'm just really sad it didn't have that right channel.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=501556
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Okay, I'm frustrated as all hell here, because I have no idea what is wrong. I have everything set up, Line In recording:
I put on the mics and tap the left mic, the left level raises. I tap the right mic, the left level raises?!?!?! What's going on here?
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Okay, I'm frustrated as all hell here, because I have no idea what is wrong. I have everything set up, Line In recording:
I put on the mics and tap the left mic, the left level raises. I tap the right mic, the left level raises?!?!?! What's going on here?
Wiggle cables (carefully) and see what causes to drop out the left channel. You might want to label L, R mic cables, etc.
-K
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Also, I know you want to run Gov't Mule in Dec. I would find a local bar that is taper-friendly and practice taping crappy local bands until you are familiar with your equipment before the Mule show... That way you are familiar with your stuff before showing up at Mule.
Good idea, but I think he is to young for bars like myself :)
Gunny Highway: Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
(http://www.clinteastwooddomain.fsnet.co.uk/pictures/heartbreak.5.jpg)
There are other things that will allow the opportunity to tape that don't involve clubs...
Terry
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The right mic works. Anytime i tap it, the left meter spikes! I don't get it. When I have headphones in there too, the sound only comes out the left ear even though im tapping the right mic.
Im so confused. :(
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The right mic works. Anytime i tap it, the left meter spikes! I don't get it. When I have headphones in there too, the sound only comes out the left ear even though im tapping the right mic.
Im so confused. :(
your mics are recording to mono
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But I have it as Line in?!?!?!
:(
Can I fix this?
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Okay, so Im insanely confused. I just tried Mic In (Mono) and it's bouncing both levels.
Any suggestions are insanely welcomed.
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But I have it as Line in?!?!?!
:(
Can I fix this?
Line-in is correct.
Okay, so Im insanely confused. I just tried Mic In (Mono) and it's bouncing both levels.
Any suggestions are insanely welcomed.
Mic-in (mono) takes the right mic channel and puts it into both channels.
Hmmm... did you buy that phantom power box used? Maybe the left channel is bunk?
-K
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Nooooo. Phantom was new.
I'm so stressed right now :(.
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The right mic works. Anytime i tap it, the left meter spikes! I don't get it. When I have headphones in there too, the sound only comes out the left ear even though im tapping the right mic.
Im so confused. :(
The iPod test suggests the JB3 works fine. Sounds to me like this could still be the input jack problem mentioned on David Klein's page (http://ca.geocities.com/dkleined@rogers.com/audio/JB3input/JB3_input_jack.htm). Do you hear/feel a satisfying click when inserting the 1/8" connector into the JB3s' plug?
Basically, we want to test each link in the chain upstream of the JB3. First step is testing the 1/8" cable connecting your line transformers to your JB3. Try a different 1/8" cable from your line transformers to the JB3, if you have one. Or an 1/8" female barrel might do the trick for testing purposes: plug the 1/8" from the line transformers into one end of the barrel, plug the other 1/8" cable used for the iPod testing into the other end of the barrel and the JB3. If this works, there's a problem with the 1/8" plug seating properly in the JB3. If it doesn't work, well...we've not really ruled anything out, but we have more data points with which to decide on next steps.
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Nooooo. Phantom was new.
I'm so stressed right now :(.
hmmm.. well, if you wiggled cables and what not and it didn't bring back the left channel even for a sec., it's something with the physical input jack on the NJB3. Like someone else said, either the 1/8" won't sit right in the jack or worse, the input is bad on the NJB3.
It's possible the jack came loose from the circuit board.
-K
Edit: oops, didn't catch the fact that you tested w/ the ipod. Agreed in reference to what Brian said... get a different ... > 1/8" cable maybe just that brand you have isn't sitting just right into the NJB3.
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input jack on the NJB3. Like someone else said, either the 1/8" won't sit right in the jack or worse, the input is bad on the NJB3.
It's possible the jack came loose from the circuit board.
Probably the former. If the latter, the iPod test would have failed, too.
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The only time I have had a problem with the jb3 picking up only 1 chanel was when I didnt have the analog cable seated just so. I have runied more than one tape because of not having everything set just right for the picky analog cable connection, or something got bumped later.
Even after I had patched for years I still got burned from time to time. That input port is just sooooooooo close to perfect. If you could try a digital source (optical) or a different recorder we would know more. I would almost swear the cable just isnt getting in the whole way in to get that 2nd chanel.
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Okay, I got the 1/8th coupler and tried it with the 1/8th chord that WORKED with the iPod and JB3. It still isn't moving the right channels. I'm so clueless right now. I'm beginning to think maybe I got a bum 1/4th (double)-> 1/8th converter?
Any more suggestions are welcomed.
Thanks
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Okay, I got the 1/8th coupler and tried it with the 1/8th chord that WORKED with the iPod and JB3. It still isn't moving the right channels. I'm so clueless right now. I'm beginning to think maybe I got a bum 1/4th (double)-> 1/8th converter?
Any more suggestions are welcomed.
Thanks
All this sounds like the 1/8 isn't plugging into the JB3 all the way. You may have to try a new cable in order to find one slim enough to fit (see the FAQ above).
Terry
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^^^ I did that. I used the 1/8th that I used with the iPod. (which worked, it bounced both levels). I set the entire rig up with that cable and the coupler, still no level.
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^^^ I did that. I used the 1/8th that I used with the iPod. (which worked, it bounced both levels). I set the entire rig up with that cable and the coupler, still no level.
Try swapping channels on the (2)1/4"TRS > 1/8"TRS. If the levels now bounce on the other side, its probably that cable.
Terry
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Still bounces on the left side.
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OK, so this means
1) you have tested iPod 1/8" out > JB3 1/8" in with no problems - both channels work.
2) Tested with (2) 1/4"TRS > 1/8TRS > JB3 1/8" in with only Left channel
3) Reversed (2) 1/4" TRS > 1/8"TRS > JB3 1/8" in with only Left channel.
Is this correct???
If so, I believe the cable is not seating correctly in the 1/8" input on the JB3 and you are sending both signals into Left and nothing into Right.
Terry
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That's correct. But why does it sit correctly with the iPod and not the mics?
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Before starting the recording, the right level bounces, but not the left. When I press play, only the left bounces.
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That's correct. But why does it sit correctly with the iPod and not the mics?
It should work correctly with both. That is the cable should sit in the input jack the same for both and therefore produce the same results.
Do you have any other device that records or shows levels??? A tape deck, perhaps???
Where do you live, perhaps there is another taper close by that you could meet with???
Terry
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Rochester NY.
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Something's not right here. I think there's either a setting on the JB3 that's wrong or something's wrong with the JB3.
I wonder if anyone would let me borrow theirs to find out?
I'm just so frustrated at this point, it's unbelieveable. Dropping this much money to have something not work, sucks.
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Rochester NY.
Post on Team NY and see if anyone lives near you. They may be willing to meet and help...
Terry
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And don't get frustrated. I'm sure its something really simple. And if it is not, and you have a defective piece of gear, you can send it back for a refund/exchange.
No big deal...
Terry
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Here is another idea. If you have a computer, you can run the 1/8 out of your transformers into the line in of the 'puter and check the input with sound recorder or cdwav.
We have all been through it -- hang in there.
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Rochester NY.
Post on Team NY and see if anyone lives near you. They may be willing to meet and help...
Terry
Team NY?
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I know a taper in Roch-cha-cha, I'll ask him if he'll look at it. I know there's other tapers up there... like what Terry said, you could post a help message on the upstate tapers team board and see if anyone can help 'ya out this week.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=73892.105 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=73892.105)
I'd help 'ya out personally, but I won't be up in you neighborhood untill Dec. 2 for the Vic Wooten show.
-Kevin
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Mule is that night, I really hope to have it straight by then. :(
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Mule is that night, I really hope to have it straight by then. :(
Yep, I'd rather see Vic myself tho... it's been 5 years since I rolled for a Vic Solo show.
Don't sweat the gear problems, things will get straighten out.
-Kevin
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Here is another idea. If you have a computer, you can run the 1/8 out of your transformers into the line in of the 'puter and check the input with sound recorder or cdwav.
We have all been through it -- hang in there.
I think he might. Just guessing.
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;D
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What program can I use to monitor the levels running it into my computer?
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You can just use the 'puter speakers to test it out - on low low levels - watch out for nasty pops or feedback. Better yet use headphones. You can make a computer recording with "sound recorder" but you'll also need this here eventually: http://www.milosoftware.com/cdwave/ It doesn't show each channel but you can make a little ambient recording of yer stereo or tv.
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OK, so this means
1) you have tested iPod 1/8" out > JB3 1/8" in with no problems - both channels work.
2) Tested with (2) 1/4"TRS > 1/8TRS > JB3 1/8" in with only Left channel
3) Reversed (2) 1/4" TRS > 1/8"TRS > JB3 1/8" in with only Left channel.
Is this correct???
If so, I believe the cable is not seating correctly in the 1/8" input on the JB3 and you are sending both signals into Left and nothing into Right.
Terry
if you are using the same exact cable for the ipod > JB3 as you are using for the (2) 1/4 > JB3 then it has to be the 1/4>1/8 adaptor
if you reversed it and got the same results that even further confirms my thoughts
i posted in team upstate for you, but if you have not seen it
i am not from rochester but there are a few who are
if none of them can meet you i would test it for you if you sent it to me, i can tell you in 30 sec if it records on both channels or not
but you seem to know that already based on the ipod test
so actually if you sent me the adaptor that would confirm
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I went back to page one and I'm looking at your transformers. There is probably not going to be enough gain to use the computer line in -- may want to try mic in.
Edit: What does your "Y" cable look like? Is it possible that it may actually be wired as a split on one channel and maybe you are using it backwards? (I've done this before going into a mixer :-\ )
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http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/adapters-14.html
That's my Y adapter. I'm thinking this is where my problem is. Anyone have one that they KNOW WORKS with the JB3 that I could buy quickly?
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Do you mean the sixth one from the top? That is a dual stereo>single stereo adapter. You need a dual mono>single stereo adapter. I can't say for sure that this is the source of your problem, but you should definitely have the correct adapter.
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Hahha, yep. That's wrong huh?
Hahahah.
Can you provide me with a link for a right adapter?
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Solid body gold mono RCA-type phone jack (female) to 1/4" phone plug (male)
Yup that's it,, hang on.
Edit: wait maybe not - I didn't see the others.. Which part num?
Duh now I see 35-556 that looks like its for splitting a stereo - the text is pretty misleading though if that's the case.
Searching...
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So do I have the wrong adapter?
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Yes, I think so. Here is one http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live-Wire-3.5mm-TRSDual-14F-Y-Patch-Cable?sku=331077
You can probably hit the local guitar pro or whatever music shop and they will set you up too. Take a picture of what you want :D
One more thing about these, since you're plugging it into the jb3 you would like the slimmest possible housing on the 1/8" end of the cable.
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Thanks so much. :)
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Don't thank us until it's working man! I think you are almost there now though. Were you getting left channel only btw?
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Don't thank us until it's working man! I think you are almost there now though. Were you getting left channel only btw?
No, it's time to accept the thanks. You for sure found the problem. If he used part 35-556 as his Y adapter, that totally explains the symptoms he gave. What will happen is that each 1/4" mono plug will apply their signal to the tip connection of the 1/4" sterep jack into which they are plugged. The problem is that both of those jacks' tip connections are connected to the tip of the 3.5 mm plug that goes to the JB3. So, he's running both left and right signals into the same (left) channel of the JB3. If he taps on the left mic, the left channel jumps. If he taps on the right mic, the left channel jumps. And the right channel is connected to signal ground of both mics. The result is a mono recording of both channels that have been combined by shorting the signal paths together and applying them to the left channel only. I can't believe it took 15 pages to figure out that it was just a cabling issue.
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I have vague recollections about talking to DMBPrez about adapter cables and such, and may have recommended the wrong cable without paying proper attention to the cable description. So...this is probably all my fault. :-[ :-X
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I can't believe it took 15 pages to figure out that it was just a cabling issue.
What do you mean, I knew the answer way long ago! I was just testing you guys to see how quick you were...
Terry
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I've done this exact same thing - almost. I was running it the other way out of my mixer and wondering why I was getting 2 lefts. Took about a half hour of button pushing to figure it out. Luckily most of the 15 pages was figuring out a cheap workable setup.
DMB - about your current setup,, I'm wondering if you can also get rid of the line impeadance transformers. If the ART II has buffers in there, which it may not, you can dump them. I'm not sure though, just thinking out loud.
One more thing - lookout! You are about to get hooked at a tender age ;D
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Hahhaha. This is hilarious. I ordered the new part, thank you all for your help.
Bri, I still love you sir. *manly hug.*
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Thank you all for your help. That new part came today and it works fine.
I appreciate all your patience and help.
Dark Star is next on the 21st. :)