Topic: mics or 4 chan recorder

[achalsey]

Why not both?  Just grab a Tascam DR-2D.  Its back on sale here supposedly (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154028.0).  And even other places its going to at most $130. 

Seems to be a proven reliable 4 channel.  Not to knock your gear, but it seems silly to spend that much on an R44 just for getting board patches on the same clock as the mics. 

That way also you can also try to find a used set of mics and grab a tiny box and still be around your original budget with a new set of mics and 4 channel recorder.

Set of AT 4031:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=152459.0

Audix Hypers:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146910.0

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Don't have much to say on your decision of mics vs. deck, but to further fluff the R-44 I've had mine for over 3-1/2 years now and it's still rock solid.  Definitely a piece of gear I won't be getting rid of any time soon if ever.  It's also not too common to see one in the YS, if that tells you anything.

[Todd R]

If you get actives, you're probably getting less mic for the money than if you went with traditional full body mics.

For the same money, would you recommend the VM-44 link or classic? I'm in the market.

Me?  I'd get the 44-links.  I haven't heard much if anything of the classics, and I couldn't really tell you, in regards to hi and lo's point, if the links sound better/worse/different than the classics.

The milabs somewhat are the exception to the rule I put forth, in that the actives don't really have much of a different cost than the full bodied version.  But getting at what acidjack was saying -- I tape in a way that makes me really prefer active capsule mics.  For a variety of reasons that all get back to wanting actives, not the least of which that money and even recording quality are less important to me than convenience and being able to run my mics where I want. 

[deadheadcorey]

Right on. Thanks for all the input. Prob gonna go ahead and get the r44  avantone mics aren't bad, I've pulled some great recordings with them....

[deadheadcorey]

I pretty much tape in small clubs where it is chatty as fuck, so all I've been doing is the on the fly matrix. Would like to have control over 4 chan vs on the fly.

haven't looked into tascam  dr-2d...

[newplanet7]

if you get a lot of sbd patches (>60% of all of your taping), then the extra 2 channels are nice, but otherwise I'd get mics over just about any other gear.

Yep. Not sure what you are after here. If you like the sound you are getting then get the recorder.
If you want a more quality sound go with the mics.
The mics are the biggest sound quality part of a rig. If you like the sound you are getting
and just want to flavor it, get a different pre.
You have a ua5 and a r-09. Nothing wrong with that noise wise/function wise.

EDIT:
This was my situation before I upgraded mics. I looked at what I wanted.
I ran 460/a60m/ck1 for 3 years and loved the sound. I developed a love for the milabs
more than going 24bit, which I also wanted so I went with mics in a change of sound direction.

[achalsey]

I pretty much tape in small clubs where it is chatty as fuck, so all I've been doing is the on the fly matrix. Would like to have control over 4 chan vs on the fly.

haven't looked into tascam  dr-2d...

I hate to take away a potential sale from the YS, but at least look into the Tascam before dropping that much on an R44.

Theres a whole 25 page thread that basically says the Tascam is legit:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=131126.0

If you're looking into a 4 channel just to get board patches (which generally sound pretty bad anyway) theres not much reason to pay for all the R44 has.

[acidjack]

I pretty much tape in small clubs where it is chatty as fuck, so all I've been doing is the on the fly matrix. Would like to have control over 4 chan vs on the fly.

haven't looked into tascam  dr-2d...

I hate to take away a potential sale from the YS, but at least look into the Tascam before dropping that much on an R44.

Theres a whole 25 page thread that basically says the Tascam is legit:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=131126.0

If you're looking into a 4 channel just to get board patches (which generally sound pretty bad anyway) theres not much reason to pay for all the R44 has.

Respectfully, I don't think it's quite accurate to act as if the DR-2D and the R-44 do exactly the same thing or are really functional equivalents.  I haven't run the -2D so if I am mistaken, please correct me.  But my understanding is:

- it only has miniplug inputs, not fullsize XLR. 
- it does not provide P48 on any channels (I'm pretty sure that's obvious from RTFM).  The OP has P48 mics which will require him to use an outboard pre (maybe not a big hurdle).
- while it does do four channel, doesn't this mean using the "mic" input on one and the "line in" on the other?  Meaning you'd I guess have to go mics>some kind of phantom supply>miniplug>line in + SBD>mic in>attenuator>mic in?  Or the reverse?
- It does not feature adjustable input gain in the same way the R-44 does, where you can, for example, drop the input gain all the way down using a simple click wheel, rather than an outboard attenuator.

I acknowledge that the DR-2D is a possible solution - and a cheaper solution - but again if I was willing to spend what that one in the YS costs (the OP is) and my *main* goal was to have a better deck to control SBD+AUD recordings, I would rather have the -44 than jump through the extra hoops of the DR-2D.   

[Todd R]

You've basically got it right, AJ.  Though since Corey already has the UA-5, he could probably run mics>UA5>DR2d(line in) + SBD>attenuators>DR2d(mic in).

You could get the DR2d + a SD card for about $125.  If say the budget is $750, and you could get $200 for selling the Avantones, that leaves $825 to invest in a set of mics.  So Corey could get a 4ch recorder to meet his needs for 4ch SBD+mic mixes, and significantly upgrade his mics.

Which definitely makes it an option to consider.  I had an R44, sold it and got a 680, sold that and downgraded to a DR2d. 

I've done a bunch of 4ch mixes over the years, but really had gotten to the point that I wasn't getting much in the way of SBD patches, and wasn't doing much in the way of 4mic mixes.  I really don't regret at all selling the 680, and generally am happy enough with the DR2d, but I do sometimes miss the R44.  Corey should just buy the R44 so I stop thinking about picking it up myself.

You're right though that the DR2d and R44 aren't really the same thing, even if both do 4ch.  The R44 makes doing 4ch much easier, and it is much, much more robust.  Still, if you're willing to deal with 1/8" connections that can be spotty, putting together an XLR>attenuator>1/8" cable (or whatever), and don't mind the 2ch at once metering and limited gain adjustments, you can use the DR2d to make 4ch recordings and have more money available to put towards mics (which is what I did).

Some more caveats on the DR2d:  if you use it as above for mic+SBD recording (which is probably you're best bet), you will most likely need some kind of attenutors on the board feed, and you may need attenuators on your UA5>line feed but probably not.  You can only meter the levels on 2ch at once on the DR2d, so you need to toggle back and forth between line and mic for your metering.  The line level effectively can't be adjusted (can only adjust before recording, and has limited range anyway due to potential overload issues).  So running mics>UA5>line-in is the best bet, and then you can adjust levels on the UA5 and just leave the DR2d set.  The board-feed into the mic input can be adjusted on the DR2d, though potential overload issues can be a problem, so you might want not just attenuators, but adjustable attenuators -- eg, -10, -25, -40 or whatever.  You won't be able to run a 4mic recording with the DR2d with this equipment set, since you'd only have phantom power for 2ch from the UA5.  If you want to start doing 4mic recordings, you'd need to pick up an 2nd mic preamp.

[acidjack]

You're right though that the DR2d and R44 aren't really the same thing, even if both do 4ch.  The R44 makes doing 4ch much easier, and it is much, much more robust.  Still, if you're willing to deal with 1/8" connections that can be spotty, putting together an XLR>attenuator>1/8" cable (or whatever), and don't mind the 2ch at once metering and limited gain adjustments, you can use the DR2d to make 4ch recordings and have more money available to put towards mics (which is what I did).

Cool - I hoped I was not off base with my comments.  If I only ran SBD occasionally, I think that would make the -2D much more attractive given the large difference in price.  That said, I'm glad I am correct that I'm getting something for my money sticking with the -44

I find that the SBD feed is always the more iffy and problematic component of a recording, in terms of how wildly the levels can vary, plus the presence of problems like weird DI buzz, interference, poor balance, etc.  One thing I like about the -44 is that it makes it very easy to drop the incoming gain and to monitor that signal easily.

[F.O.Bean]

I say go with the BSC2's Plus theyre actives and take up less space all around vs. getting your mics modded. Id def say go with mics. Not to mention IMO theyre the best deal out there right now

[deadheadcorey]

R44 don't come for sale often, thinkin I'm gonna do it. I do more smaller club shows and it would be nice to finally have control over 4 actual channels instead of a "on the fly" 2 channel matrix...

[F.O.Bean]

If you record in chatty ass bars like I sometimes do, you NEED a quality hyper capsule. Thats why I suggested going the BSC2 route

[ScoobieKW]

Bean, he has the hypers with his Avantones, the BSC series are an evolution in the Avantone CK-1 mics. As far as I know, same capules. While nice, he can get most of the way there by upgrading the bodies of his CK-1 mics, for a lot less.

[jbell]

I ran the DR-2d Aud line in and SBD mic in with no attenuation and the recording turned out great!!  I did grab a attenuator cable for hot SBD's.   Since your not looking to run 4 mics you should put your money into a better set of mics!!  A DR-2d would work great for your application Aud + SBD recordings.   

You've basically got it right, AJ.  Though since Corey already has the UA-5, he could probably run mics>UA5>DR2d(line in) + SBD>attenuators>DR2d(mic in).

You could get the DR2d + a SD card for about $125.  If say the budget is $750, and you could get $200 for selling the Avantones, that leaves $825 to invest in a set of mics.  So Corey could get a 4ch recorder to meet his needs for 4ch SBD+mic mixes, and significantly upgrade his mics.

Which definitely makes it an option to consider.  I had an R44, sold it and got a 680, sold that and downgraded to a DR2d. 

I've done a bunch of 4ch mixes over the years, but really had gotten to the point that I wasn't getting much in the way of SBD patches, and wasn't doing much in the way of 4mic mixes.  I really don't regret at all selling the 680, and generally am happy enough with the DR2d, but I do sometimes miss the R44.  Corey should just buy the R44 so I stop thinking about picking it up myself.

You're right though that the DR2d and R44 aren't really the same thing, even if both do 4ch.  The R44 makes doing 4ch much easier, and it is much, much more robust.  Still, if you're willing to deal with 1/8" connections that can be spotty, putting together an XLR>attenuator>1/8" cable (or whatever), and don't mind the 2ch at once metering and limited gain adjustments, you can use the DR2d to make 4ch recordings and have more money available to put towards mics (which is what I did).

Some more caveats on the DR2d:  if you use it as above for mic+SBD recording (which is probably you're best bet), you will most likely need some kind of attenutors on the board feed, and you may need attenuators on your UA5>line feed but probably not.  You can only meter the levels on 2ch at once on the DR2d, so you need to toggle back and forth between line and mic for your metering.  The line level effectively can't be adjusted (can only adjust before recording, and has limited range anyway due to potential overload issues).  So running mics>UA5>line-in is the best bet, and then you can adjust levels on the UA5 and just leave the DR2d set.  The board-feed into the mic input can be adjusted on the DR2d, though potential overload issues can be a problem, so you might want not just attenuators, but adjustable attenuators -- eg, -10, -25, -40 or whatever.  You won't be able to run a 4mic recording with the DR2d with this equipment set, since you'd only have phantom power for 2ch from the UA5.  If you want to start doing 4mic recordings, you'd need to pick up an 2nd mic preamp.