Topic: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks

[JusTapin]

First, I'd like to say thanks to all of you who have shared your labors of love for recording music with us music lovers.  I had no clue about this hobby until the last year or so because I've sort of been out of the concert going scene for several years and just now I'm at point in life where I am able to start getting out to enjoy the finer things again. lol  No, not prison, but at times I suppose it felt like it.

So anyway, I wanted to post a little intro, a thanks, and a quick questions if you don't mind.  Being the newbie, I hope this is wrong or in the wrong section.  Anyway, I'm getting to old fart status I guess, no offense to any others over the 50 mark, haha, but over the last year as I said I have started to live life again and have been attending a lot of concerts and while doing so I've been introduced to this awesome hobby of taping and sharing!  I recently bumped into a taper while waiting in line at a recent show and decided I really want to get into this as a hobby.

My wife won't be happy because when I get into something it usually cost a lot and it consumes me and I won't stop until whatever it is reaches some acceptable point of perfection.  Guess I can blame my years of military service for creating the perfectionist asshole my wife claims I have become. LOL  Anyhow, before babbling on, I'm excited about getting into this new hobby and I am spending hours reading through the pages and pages of information here feeling a new addiction taking hold real quick.  It, however, is admittedly just a little overwhelming! 

Like I said, we've started attending a lot of concerts and I'm looking to primarily do open recording with a possible stealth mission here or there, but primarily I hope to do most in the open.  I'm looking at a budget to get into it probably around $500 (+ or -) to get started and see if I stick with it, thinking I can always upgrade down the road.  With the learning curve seeming sort of steep right now, I'm going to try and take it slow to avoid the mistake purchases and the oh crap this is junk purchases.  I believe and have learned the hard way too many times that you truly do get what you pay for it most instances...so I don't mind spending a little more the first time to get something that is going to be durable and compatible etc.

I'm itching to order my first piece, patience isn't a strong point of mine, but I've seen the Tascam DR2D (I've read the two monster threads) at marked down prices (under $150) and I'm wondering if that would be a good starter for now.  I'm leaning towards the Sony PCM-D50 from what I've been reading here, however, I'm thinking if I can start out with a little less expensive recorder to get started I'll upgrade later and would still have a nice recorder for backup or other occasions etc.   So I guess my first big question, purchasing the DR2D would be a good start, wouldn't it?  Or tell me to go back and read more! haha I'm looking at picking up some external mics to go with it and I've about come to the conclusion I would initially start with the CA 9100 package with battery box etc.

I've obviously got a ton of learning to do and your help will be greatly appreciated so thanks in advance for any and all advice.  Also, I apologize if I've babbled on and on and have made no sense. LOL

Some upcoming shows I'll be attending are Feb 8, Willie Nelson, Florence SC, Apr 6, DMB, B'Ham AL and Apr 27, 28 JazzFest NOLA, possible Eric Clapton in Raleigh, if anyone will be taping and wouldn't mind showing me around a little.  I'm in the Fayetteville, NC area if there is anyone local that needs an intern or gofer.   

[ScoobieKW]

At your budget I'd recommend against the Sony D50 as too expensive. A middle ground alternative is the Sony M10. Great battery life (better than the DR-2D) good preamps and a solid build quality.

Naiant mics X-R series, built by our own Jon Stoppable with his Tinyhead preamp would get you out the door with external mics, preamp, and recorder for under $500.

Church mics and preamps would also fit your budget, but build and shipping delays are a common issue that's brought up on this board about them.

I own the M10 and a DR-2D, and I much prefer the M10 for stereo recording, the DR-2D comes out when I want to record 4 track adding in a board feed.

[acidjack]

Welcome!  I hope you find taping as rewarding as we do.  Simplest and most upgradeable starter rig right now, I think:

Sony PCM-M10 (the D50 is a very nice deck, but it costs twice as much and the biggest improvement over the M10 is the digital input)  [$250] or Roland R-05 [$200 and functionally the same] http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R05?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNigv-T78rQCFYLd4AodyBEA2A
Naiant Tinybox [$220 or so; can provide "plug in" power to small mics but also 48V phantom power to "full size" mics when you upgrade to those]  http://www.naiant.com
Church Audio CA-14 cardiods [$125]  - they're small and good for stealthing, but within your budget I think they make the most sense and they have done many a fine job for open taping. [see "Retail Space" below]
[EDIT] the Naiant X-R could also be a great option.  I have a pair on order but have never heard them myself.

If you want to spend more and want full-size mics, the Avantone CK-1 ($300/pr) is the best bet.  But with full-size mics you will also need a T-bar, and cables, and all of that costs more money.   

If you want something less upgradeable but also less expensive, hold off on the tinybox and just get a battery box ($29) with your CA-14s.  Then you'll have money for a stand to use for your open taping.  Impact stands are not the greatest ever (be careful not to over-tighten or the clips will break), but they're cheap and they work. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253067-REG/Impact_LS10AB_Air_Cushioned_Light_Stand.html

[chinariderstl]

Definitely agree the Sony PCM-M10 is the way to go.  I have one and love it, super easy to use and super long battery life.

I would suggest checking out the Yard Sale frequently as there's a ton of great deals from fellow tapers selling some pretty nice stuff.  I scored all my mics, both of my pre-amps and a deck through the Yard Sale.

There are two pairs of Audio-Technica AT853's in the Yard Sale now.  One from darktrain, I bought mine from darktrain and they were in mint condition.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160220.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160221.0

Sound Professionals also sells a pair, known as SP-CMC-4U.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U

Those into a Naiant Tinybox into a Sony M10 would be a nice, nice setup.

http://www.naiant.com/tinyboxspecification.html

There is also a nice set of Audix mics in the Yard Sale, if I didn't have a mic problem, I might be tempted to grab them.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160133.0

[jbell]

The at853's in the YS would be a nice starter mic plus you can get different cap options!!  I doubt they will last long at that price.

Definitely agree the Sony PCM-M10 is the way to go.  I have one and love it, super easy to use and super long battery life.

I would suggest checking out the Yard Sale frequently as there's a ton of great deals from fellow tapers selling some pretty nice stuff.  I scored all my mics, both of my pre-amps and a deck through the Yard Sale.

There are two pairs of Audio-Technica AT853's in the Yard Sale now.  One from darktrain, I bought mine from darktrain and they were in mint condition.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160220.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160221.0

Sound Professionals also sells a pair, known as SP-CMC-4U.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U

Those into a Naiant Tinybox into a Sony M10 would be a nice, nice setup.

http://www.naiant.com/tinyboxspecification.html

There is also a nice set of Audix mics in the Yard Sale, if I didn't have a mic problem, I might be tempted to grab them.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160133.0

[brad.bartels]

I was going to recommend exaclty what Jack did. CA-14 cards -> Tinybox -> Sony M-10. And like he said, if the Tinybox pushes you over your budget, you could go with just a battery box to start with, but eventually you'll probably want a pre-amp of some kind. You can tape open or stealth with that and for the money, I think it's hard to beat the CA-14's, I've heard plenty of really nice recordings from them. Or for mics, you can look into the Naiant mics (heard good things about them, but not many recordings) or some of the AT mics (I'm not an expert on them either).

Welcome and good luck!

I started with a completely different setup than I have now but if I had it to do all over again in the beginning and the budget that you have, that is how I would go, for what it's worth.

Then for open taping, you'll need some additional stuff like a stand a mouting bar, cables, etc.

Depending on your schedule, if you have the time to do some waiting and watching, you can probably get everything you need in the Yard Sale here and save yourself some money as well.

Welcome!  I hope you find taping as rewarding as we do.  Simplest and most upgradeable starter rig right now, I think:

Sony PCM-M10 (the D50 is a very nice deck, but it costs twice as much and the biggest improvement over the M10 is the digital input)  [$250] or Roland R-05 [$200 and functionally the same] http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R05?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNigv-T78rQCFYLd4AodyBEA2A
Naiant Tinybox [$220 or so; can provide "plug in" power to small mics but also 48V phantom power to "full size" mics when you upgrade to those]  http://www.naiant.com
Church Audio CA-14 cardiods [$125]  - they're small and good for stealthing, but within your budget I think they make the most sense and they have done many a fine job for open taping. [see "Retail Space" below]
[EDIT] the Naiant X-R could also be a great option.  I have a pair on order but have never heard them myself.

If you want to spend more and want full-size mics, the Avantone CK-1 ($300/pr) is the best bet.  But with full-size mics you will also need a T-bar, and cables, and all of that costs more money.   

If you want something less upgradeable but also less expensive, hold off on the tinybox and just get a battery box ($29) with your CA-14s.  Then you'll have money for a stand to use for your open taping.  Impact stands are not the greatest ever (be careful not to over-tighten or the clips will break), but they're cheap and they work. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253067-REG/Impact_LS10AB_Air_Cushioned_Light_Stand.html

[yltfan]

But with the DR2D on sale for $90, and the option of going 4 channel, is the M-10 really the way to go?

[ScoobieKW]

With a preamp the DR-2D is fine.
With a battery box, I'd go M10 as it's preamp and gain settings are more flexible

[JusTapin]

Thank you all for the awesome information!  I noticed Sony PCM-M10 during my initial research and with almost all of you recommending it, I've spent some more time looking at this unit.  Definitely has some great reviews and would be great at this cost.  My only decision at this point may be color.  haha

yitfan - I've found it for $149 and that's making it difficult for me to pull the trigger on the M10.  Not at all disputing the quality of the Sony, at $239 I have no doubt it is worth every penny, but this would leave an additional $80 for other equipment and if I stick with it I wouldn't have an issue dropping $500 for say Sony D50 down the road. 

I almost just pulled the trigger on the D50 an hour ago but I just feel like I need to try keep the budget I set under control until I figure it all out and make sure I don't get frustrated trying to learn it all and end up having a pile of expensive equipment laying around.  Like now one of my concerns are a couple of amphitheater shows I have planned and I guess I'm just not understanding how to get the access to setup a stand etc with standard seat tickets etc.  I mean I know when there's a pit or GA open type floor access, that doesn't seem so complicated as far as setting up with a wide open floor area.  I've paid attention to the tapers at the past few shows I've attended and I guess I've got a comfortable feeling about how that access works, it's the seating only situations I haven't seen or paid attention to yet.  Obviously I have zero knowledge base and I need to do a lot more research on the entire process.

I appreciate all of your willingness to help and look forward to the day that maybe I'll be able to contribute and give back!  I'm at about 90% on the recorder decision and hope I can be patient enough not to order the D50 and say screw the budget.  haha  Now off to read up on all of the mic options y'all shared!  Thanks again to each of you! 

EDIT - After thinking more about my last comments, access really isn't that important. Figure out a what equipment is my priority right now. LOL

[chinariderstl]

Taping in tight quarters can often be a challenge.  I have a Manfrotto 368B stand.  I have the all the legs taped with neon orange gaffers tape, tape the legs down and often afix a small LED flashlight to illuminate the base / area.  It helps to tape with a buddy as well, as they can usually make beer runs and help guard your stand if you have to run to the bathroom.

I also have a Manfrotto 649 clamp and a Manfrotto 009B extension pole for clamping.  I have clamped to bar rails and to my seat before.

I've included links to each.

HTH

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546528-REG/Manfrotto_368B_368B_Basic_Black_Light.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/252212-REG/Manfrotto_649_649_Quick_Action_Release.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546540-REG/Manfrotto_099B_3_Section_Extension_Pole_35.html

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Welcome, from another Team NCer!

Come find us here:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157700.msg2016565#new

We are a fairly large group, and very friendly... 

Terry

[brad.bartels]

I guess it's a matter of choice / preference and the DR2D is less than half the price and if he plans to do any 4 channel (generally SBD / AUD) recordings, it makes sense. I have both and I only have used the DR2D a couple of times (just got it recently), so I haven't become nearly as familiar with it as the M10. So yeah, there are pros and cons for sure. I just prefer the M10 so far for 2 channel recording, but it may just be a learning curve with the DR2D. I know plenty of folks like it and will vouch for it. And having something for less than half the price and I don't think a whole lot of recording quality sacrifice (not any as far as I know but I haven't done any comps)  plus the ability to run 4 chan (two 2 chan sources and have the synched and time aligned) if needed would make it attractive. I just prefer the interface and build quality of the M10 - so at this point, it is my preference for 2 chan recording.

And one reason I'm not high on the DR2D is that it died after less than 2 hours and about half-way through the main act the last time I used it. Was using the same NiMH re-cyclable batteries that I run all the time in the M10 - got a set of 4, so I had 2 in each recorder) - I think the M10 still showed full on the battery meter. I was running SBD + mics, but luckily was running only one source (SBD) into the DR2D (and the feed was pretty bad - would probably not have used it anyway, so it didn't even hack me off like it would have if I had wished I had it).

I bought the DR2D for just this occaision but more than anything, I didn't trust my familiarity with it enough to run both sources into it and didn't have a good feel for it's battery life (guess I found out). I'm glad I didn't run both into the DR2D, because I would have completely missed the second half of the show. That being said, it is on the original SW that it came with (had just gotten it a few days before - when I checked it after this happened it was ver 1.something, not sure what the latest is). I think the early SW versions did have a battery life problem. I haven't gotten around to figuring out if I have the latest SW and if not how to upgrade it... Haven't had another chance at a SBD+AUD since this happened, but something I need to do.

Maybe some folks that have the DR2D and were smart enough to update the SW before they used it can comment on the battery life with the latest SW. And if anyone knows the latest version and how to upgrade to it, I wouldn't mind a PM;)

Again - to the original OP, welcome and I hope this hobby is as rewarding for you as I think it is for most of us. One of many choices you'll have to make. Sounds like you've been reading the right threads to make an informed decision.

But with the DR2D on sale for $90, and the option of going 4 channel, is the M-10 really the way to go?

[brad.bartels]

I found an M-10 (I think it claimed to be used once and it did look brand new when I got it) on eBay for $175 - you might check there and in the YS, I think they generally go for around $200. And the DR2D, I found somewhere (I'll see if I can remember where) new for I think $90 - I want to say B&H, but that might not be right. If you want new, then yeah, I think the M-10 is going to run somewhere around $230+ right now.

Thank you all for the awesome information!  I noticed Sony PCM-M10 during my initial research and with almost all of you recommending it, I've spent some more time looking at this unit.  Definitely has some great reviews and would be great at this cost.  My only decision at this point may be color.  haha

yitfan - I've found it for $149 and that's making it difficult for me to pull the trigger on the M10.  Not at all disputing the quality of the Sony, at $239 I have no doubt it is worth every penny, but this would leave an additional $80 for other equipment and if I stick with it I wouldn't have an issue dropping $500 for say Sony D50 down the road. 

I almost just pulled the trigger on the D50 an hour ago but I just feel like I need to try keep the budget I set under control until I figure it all out and make sure I don't get frustrated trying to learn it all and end up having a pile of expensive equipment laying around.  Like now one of my concerns are a couple of amphitheater shows I have planned and I guess I'm just not understanding how to get the access to setup a stand etc with standard seat tickets etc.  I mean I know when there's a pit or GA open type floor access, that doesn't seem so complicated as far as setting up with a wide open floor area.  I've paid attention to the tapers at the past few shows I've attended and I guess I've got a comfortable feeling about how that access works, it's the seating only situations I haven't seen or paid attention to yet.  Obviously I have zero knowledge base and I need to do a lot more research on the entire process.

I appreciate all of your willingness to help and look forward to the day that maybe I'll be able to contribute and give back!  I'm at about 90% on the recorder decision and hope I can be patient enough not to order the D50 and say screw the budget.  haha  Now off to read up on all of the mic options y'all shared!  Thanks again to each of you! 

EDIT - After thinking more about my last comments, access really isn't that important. Figure out a what equipment is my priority right now. LOL

[brad.bartels]

Well, OK - completely lied. Rather mis-remembered. I paid $149 for the DR2D new. Just found the confirmation email when I bought it a few months ago. Bought it somewhere on Amazon. I did notice in looking that it's "no longer available" at B&H and Sweetwater, so if you want to go that route and you want it new, you should probably grab one now while you can still find one. That usually means they are no longer in production, I think.

I found an M-10 (I think it claimed to be used once and it did look brand new when I got it) on eBay for $175 - you might check there and in the YS, I think they generally go for around $200. And the DR2D, I found somewhere (I'll see if I can remember where) new for I think $90 - I want to say B&H, but that might not be right. If you want new, then yeah, I think the M-10 is going to run somewhere around $230+ right now.

Thank you all for the awesome information!  I noticed Sony PCM-M10 during my initial research and with almost all of you recommending it, I've spent some more time looking at this unit.  Definitely has some great reviews and would be great at this cost.  My only decision at this point may be color.  haha

yitfan - I've found it for $149 and that's making it difficult for me to pull the trigger on the M10.  Not at all disputing the quality of the Sony, at $239 I have no doubt it is worth every penny, but this would leave an additional $80 for other equipment and if I stick with it I wouldn't have an issue dropping $500 for say Sony D50 down the road. 

I almost just pulled the trigger on the D50 an hour ago but I just feel like I need to try keep the budget I set under control until I figure it all out and make sure I don't get frustrated trying to learn it all and end up having a pile of expensive equipment laying around.  Like now one of my concerns are a couple of amphitheater shows I have planned and I guess I'm just not understanding how to get the access to setup a stand etc with standard seat tickets etc.  I mean I know when there's a pit or GA open type floor access, that doesn't seem so complicated as far as setting up with a wide open floor area.  I've paid attention to the tapers at the past few shows I've attended and I guess I've got a comfortable feeling about how that access works, it's the seating only situations I haven't seen or paid attention to yet.  Obviously I have zero knowledge base and I need to do a lot more research on the entire process.

I appreciate all of your willingness to help and look forward to the day that maybe I'll be able to contribute and give back!  I'm at about 90% on the recorder decision and hope I can be patient enough not to order the D50 and say screw the budget.  haha  Now off to read up on all of the mic options y'all shared!  Thanks again to each of you! 

EDIT - After thinking more about my last comments, access really isn't that important. Figure out a what equipment is my priority right now. LOL

[chinariderstl]

No affiliation, but wanted to throw this out as well.  Here's a pair of Berliner CM33's on eBay for $300.  I've heard some damn good tapes with those little bad dogs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Berliner-CM33-Stereo-Microphones-in-Wood-Box-Made-for-Neumann-KM-184-/111001984035?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Microphones&hash=item19d83bdc23