Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: In-Ear-Monitor Taping  (Read 28093 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brian Skalinder

  • Complaint Dept.
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 18868
  • Gender: Male
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2005, 10:46:33 AM »
if you read his comment you will see that his issue has nothing to do with the number of available devices at a given venue but more with the moral issue of using something that is meant for a handicapped person therefore your comment is moot.

Surely, you jest.  First off, you have misrepresented Tim's statement:

The ALD's are there for people with an actual disability and we shouldn't be exploiting them so we can make tapes.

Tim makes no statement about why we shouldn't exploit the availability of these devices, whether for moral or purely practical reasons.

Second, George made a very good practical point which you so conveniently, and inappropriately, dismissed.  Your handicap ramp analogy addressing this point is fundamentally flawed.  Using the handicap ramp does not prevent wheelchair bound people from using it - the person walking on the ramp can simply clear out and allow the person in the wheelchair to utilize the resource.  Using an ALD device at a concert, would you post an associate at the ALD desk or leave your section and seat number so in case they ran out you may immediately return yours for someone truly in need?  I suspect not.

The big arenas usually have way more than neccessary to meet demand. Once again I ask, do you ever walk up the handicapped ramp? Wear and tear have nothing to do with it, the question is are you using a service designed to be used by the handicapped?

Third, the fact that you've usually seen large arenas with a sufficient supply of ALDs on a given night doesn't mean that [1] they always will on another night during which someone improperly uses an ALD for taping, or [2] that small or mid-sized venues also will always have a surplus supply.  The fact remains, that on any given night in any given venue, you have no idea whether or not people truly in need will require the ALD devices or not, and therefore have no idea whether use inappropriate usage will impact those people.  Once again, I ask:    Using an ALD device at a concert, would you post an associate at the ALD desk or leave your section and seat number so in case they ran out you may immediately return yours for someone truly in need?  And again, I suspect not.

Fourth, tapers purchase all sorts of equipment in order to record concerts.  Why not simply purchase an ALD instead of taking advantage of the pre-existing supply intended for those who are in need?

And finally, if you're unable or unwilling to acknowledge that there is a moral component to taking advantage of this situation, you've got some learning to do, it has nothing to do with taping, and there's nothing we can say here to help you.

Apologies, that last bit was unnecessarily harsh and originated more from my lack of sleep than any points you're attempting to argue.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2005, 11:08:25 AM by Brian Skalinder »
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline Simp-Dawg

  • Bad Little Dawggie
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15077
  • Gender: Male
  • Daddy needs a drink!
    • Colorado Tapers
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2005, 10:48:03 AM »
CO Crüe Benchwarmer

Playback: Denon DVD-2910 > Denon AVR-3806 > Segue Doghouse Speaker Cable > B&W DM-610i / Klipsch RW-10 Subwoofer

Offline Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2238
  • Gender: Male
  • Tin Can > Wax String > Dictaphone
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2005, 10:48:20 AM »
Anyone have "recommendations for good general IEM receiver equipment that can 1) scan frequencies from multiple IEM manufacturers 2) separate the L/R channels correctly and 3) collect as much (non-noise) background data as possible. DIY instructions or external links are more than welcome."

I'm guessing most people here don't have the foggiest idea about IEM equipment since our goal is generally to capture high quality ambient recordings.  IEM equipment doesn't support that goal, so I'm not surprised no one here has much experience with IEM gear.  Maybe try a post on DAT-Heads?

I'd venture to guess a large number of tapers here have also recorded from the board too, a board can be (but not always) a great thing when mixed with an ambient recording.  IEM/ALD isn't much different, if different at all.  IMO it's something that should be discussed elsewhere, or at the very least in a private manner.  You can get the equipment elsewhere and not diminish the local venues supply of devices for the hearing impaired (in the case of ALD), to get around that ethical hurdle.  If anyone still considers it ethically wrong, how is it any different than stealth taping bands that do not permit taping?  If given the choice of board OR mics, I'm running the mics, but if given the choice of board AND mics, you better believe I'm getting both.

Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
Girls always up on Andy tryin to grab these mics, the scratches are from their wedding rings.

CMC641 / DPA4022 / DPA4062>mod MPS6030
V3 / PMD671 / field ready DV-RA1000 / Oade W-mod PMD661 / PCM-M10

Offline Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2238
  • Gender: Male
  • Tin Can > Wax String > Dictaphone
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2005, 10:56:23 AM »

Second, George made a very good practical point which you so conveniently, and inappropriately, dismissed.  Your handicap ramp analogy addressing this point is fundamentally flawed.  Using the handicap ramp does not prevent wheelchair bound people from using it - the person walking on the ramp can simply clear out and allow the person in the wheelchair to utilize the resource.  Using an ALD device at a concert, would you post an associate at the ALD desk or leave your section and seat number so in case they ran out you may immediately return yours for someone truly in need?  I suspect not.


And if you bring your own device, which are not hard to come by, his analogy is dead on.  The only way i could see it affecting the disabled is if the venue intentionally sends a bad feed or mix because of the recording aspect.  I've heard that it's been done and I wouldn't put it past them, but there is no way to verify that. 
Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
Girls always up on Andy tryin to grab these mics, the scratches are from their wedding rings.

CMC641 / DPA4022 / DPA4062>mod MPS6030
V3 / PMD671 / field ready DV-RA1000 / Oade W-mod PMD661 / PCM-M10

Offline Brian Skalinder

  • Complaint Dept.
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 18868
  • Gender: Male
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2005, 11:02:40 AM »
And if you bring your own device, which are not hard to come by, his analogy is dead on.

True enough - using one's own ALD device pushes us into the stealth recording ethical discussion, one we need not have again.  But using the devices at the venue intended for those in need makes it an entirely different issue, IMO.
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline gewwang

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6251
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2005, 11:03:30 AM »
Second, George made a very good practical point which you so conveniently, and inappropriately, dismissed.  Your handicap ramp analogy addressing this point is fundamentally flawed.  Using the handicap ramp does not prevent wheelchair bound people from using it - the person walking on the ramp can simply clear out and allow the person in the wheelchair to utilize the resource.  Using an ALD device at a concert, would you post an associate at the ALD desk or leave your section and seat number so in case they ran out you may immediately return yours for someone truly in need?  I suspect not.

Thanks for pointing that out, Brian. In this case, I deferred my knowledge in the area of using someone else's disabilities to my benefit. There seem to be alot of experts in that field on this thread so no need for my comments.

Offline Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2238
  • Gender: Male
  • Tin Can > Wax String > Dictaphone
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2005, 11:08:02 AM »
What's a good time to plant your tomato plants? It's May 18th, I'm in south-eastern Ohio, did I miss it?  I'd hate to miss the full potential from my plants due to poor planning in reguards to growing season.

Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
Girls always up on Andy tryin to grab these mics, the scratches are from their wedding rings.

CMC641 / DPA4022 / DPA4062>mod MPS6030
V3 / PMD671 / field ready DV-RA1000 / Oade W-mod PMD661 / PCM-M10

Offline dmonterisi

  • Taper Emeritus
  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 11952
  • Gender: Male
  • Stomach Full of Regret
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2005, 11:08:37 AM »
In my view, I'm against anyone using an ALD to record a show for a number of reasons.  first, yea as george and others have said, it could take away the last ALD that someone actually needs to hear the show.  but the bigger issue to me is just the morality of taking advantage of disabilities just to pull a tape.  It's just wrong in and of itself, not for any other reason.  in the same way that selecting disabled tickets off of ticketmaster to get into a sold out show is just wrong as well.  We should not be taking advantage of accomodations made for disabled people just so that we can get into a concert or especially not to pull a tape.  additionally, if this becomes a bigger problem, there's a chance that bands will stop offering ALDs altogether or impose stricter requirements on getting them.  I wouldn't want it to be that people with disabilities now have to go and get some sort of disabled ID card or bring a doctor's note just to be able to get the ALD at a show.  People in society are already insensitive enough toward the disabled and do their best to differentiate them and look down upon them.  we don't need to be doing anything to possibly make it worse.

jcrabb66, the concrete ramp analogy is quite possibly in the top-5 stupidest things i've ever seen posted on ts.com.  -T for being a complete asshole.

Ray76

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2005, 11:12:57 AM »
tomatoes are sexy sometimes.

Offline Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2238
  • Gender: Male
  • Tin Can > Wax String > Dictaphone
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2005, 11:23:39 AM »
Male tomato  :)

« Last Edit: May 22, 2005, 11:43:11 AM by Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan »
Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
Girls always up on Andy tryin to grab these mics, the scratches are from their wedding rings.

CMC641 / DPA4022 / DPA4062>mod MPS6030
V3 / PMD671 / field ready DV-RA1000 / Oade W-mod PMD661 / PCM-M10

Offline Tim

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 32913
  • Gender: Male
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2005, 11:57:57 AM »
Out of curiosity, when you go to the post office do you always walk up the steps or do you sometimes walk up the ramp that was put there for those who unfortunately have to use a wheel chair to get around? Just askin.....

that's a piss poor analogy.

do you park in the handicap spots?

EDIT: I see Brian has done a masterful job of explaining my position. :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2005, 11:59:54 AM by Tim »
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Brian

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • Posts: 9392
  • Gender: Male
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2005, 02:06:55 PM »
I'm also of the opinion that recording this way jeapordizes legitimate taping policies. Therefore, I do not support taping bands that have policies against receivers.

H
Y
P
O
C
R
I
T
E

:-X

Offline Tim

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 32913
  • Gender: Male
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #87 on: May 22, 2005, 02:30:45 PM »
In my view, I'm against anyone using an ALD to record a show for a number of reasons. first, yea as george and others have said, it could take away the last ALD that someone actually needs to hear the show. but the bigger issue to me is just the morality of taking advantage of disabilities just to pull a tape. It's just wrong in and of itself, not for any other reason. in the same way that selecting disabled tickets off of ticketmaster to get into a sold out show is just wrong as well. We should not be taking advantage of accomodations made for disabled people just so that we can get into a concert or especially not to pull a tape. additionally, if this becomes a bigger problem, there's a chance that bands will stop offering ALDs altogether or impose stricter requirements on getting them. I wouldn't want it to be that people with disabilities now have to go and get some sort of disabled ID card or bring a doctor's note just to be able to get the ALD at a show. People in society are already insensitive enough toward the disabled and do their best to differentiate them and look down upon them. we don't need to be doing anything to possibly make it worse.

jcrabb66, the concrete ramp analogy is quite possibly in the top-5 stupidest things i've ever seen posted on ts.com. -T for being a complete asshole.

I'm with Damon 100%
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Brian

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • Posts: 9392
  • Gender: Male
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #88 on: May 22, 2005, 02:39:08 PM »


tomatoes ain't working ehh?
take that you bastards! :P

well, clearly, I can't compete with that ;D

peace and love brahs!

In my view, I'm against anyone using an ALD to record a show for a number of reasons. first, yea as george and others have said, it could take away the last ALD that someone actually needs to hear the show. but the bigger issue to me is just the morality of taking advantage of disabilities just to pull a tape. It's just wrong in and of itself, not for any other reason. in the same way that selecting disabled tickets off of ticketmaster to get into a sold out show is just wrong as well. We should not be taking advantage of accomodations made for disabled people just so that we can get into a concert or especially not to pull a tape. additionally, if this becomes a bigger problem, there's a chance that bands will stop offering ALDs altogether or impose stricter requirements on getting them. I wouldn't want it to be that people with disabilities now have to go and get some sort of disabled ID card or bring a doctor's note just to be able to get the ALD at a show. People in society are already insensitive enough toward the disabled and do their best to differentiate them and look down upon them. we don't need to be doing anything to possibly make it worse.

PLUS-F*CKIN-T

Offline The Gambler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Lady,You light up my life.
Re: In-Ear-Monitor Taping
« Reply #89 on: May 22, 2005, 04:10:09 PM »
Real love is the only thing I know
It changes everything it touches
It gets you in it's gentle clutches
But that's not really the heart of the matter

Everbody, every now and then
We'll say that they can use
Some solitude
Even though you've said it kinda rude
That's not really the heart of the matter

I think that really the heart of the matter
Isn't that you're going away to think and be alone
I think you feel
Your love for me is gone
I think that's really the heart of the matter after all

Darling, I know every now and then
some nights I lay real easy on your mind
You might hold your pillow you might cry
That's not really the heart of the matter

I think that really the heart of the matter
Isn't that you're going away to think and be alone
I think you feel
Your love for me is gone
I think that's really the heart of the matter after all

Yes I thinks that's really the heart of the matter
After all

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.081 seconds with 39 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF