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Author Topic: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder  (Read 25179 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2023, 10:53:18 AM »
Good news, D..

Here's a plus for 32bit based on my  >:D experience last night. I forgot to lock the recorder (PCM-A10) and when I checked my levels via phone 10 mins into the first act, levels were maxed and I was hard brickwalling.

Had I been using a 32 bit recorder (like the Deity or F3), this would been recoverable. Luckily I only lost 10 minutes and none of the headliner.

True that if you had been using a 32 bit recorder, the input level would have been out of your control and low enough from the start (extremely low).  However, you can run the A10 in essentially the same way by resisting the temptation to increase recording levels above whatever minimum setting is needed to avoid overload in the loudest recording situations you encounter.

Doing so will not be a problem as long as..

[snip..] the ambient noisefloor is significantly higher than the noisefloor of the MixPre at -18 [of your recording chain, in this case determined by microphone self-noise>recorder EIN] after I bring it up in post, so no cost to having the extra safety buffer [..snip]

SMsound describes classical/opera which has an ambient noise floor that is about as quiet as any taper-recorded live performance ever gets.  The biggest problem for tapers is that not increasing recording level is a very difficult temptation to overcome! it's one that has become ingrained by habit as it used to be important but generally isn't any longer, 32bit or not.

The parallel switching ADC designs and very low EIN of 32bit float recorders help extend dynamic range sufficiently to fully accommodate very low ambient noisefloors that don't occur in concert taper situations.  Most modern recorders that are not 32bit float can be used in essentially the same way as 32bit recorders for concert recording. I use a DR2d for classical recording, which when recording in 24bit probably has a real-world dynamic range of only around 18bit equivalent or so at best.  I've never actually measured it.  But as they should be, the noisefloor of the recordings I make with it are dominated by the ambient noisefloor of the hall.  Even with an effective range of only about 18bit and the DR2d's input levels remaining the same all the time, I use only two different gain settings on the preamp upstream of the recorder- one for classical recording (determined by the need to keep the recording chain noisefloor lower than the ambient noisefloor) and one for very much louder PA amplified stuff (determined by the needed to keep the loudest SPL from clipping).  Once those settings have been determined, there is no need to look at or worry about them again.

Using the Zoom F8 instead and recording in 24bit, I don't even need two gain settings.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2023, 12:00:11 PM »
Good news, D..

Here's a plus for 32bit based on my  >:D experience last night. I forgot to lock the recorder (PCM-A10) and when I checked my levels via phone 10 mins into the first act, levels were maxed and I was hard brickwalling.

Had I been using a 32 bit recorder (like the Deity or F3), this would been recoverable. Luckily I only lost 10 minutes and none of the headliner.

True that if you had been using a 32 bit recorder, the input level would have been out of your control and low enough from the start (extremely low).  However, you can run the A10 in essentially the same way by resisting the temptation to increase recording levels above whatever minimum setting is needed to avoid overload in the loudest recording situations you encounter.

Doing so will not be a problem as long as..

[snip..] the ambient noisefloor is significantly higher than the noisefloor of the MixPre at -18 [of your recording chain, in this case determined by microphone self-noise>recorder EIN] after I bring it up in post, so no cost to having the extra safety buffer [..snip]

SMsound describes classical/opera which has an ambient noise floor that is about as quiet as any taper-recorded live performance ever gets.  The biggest problem for tapers is that not increasing recording level is a very difficult temptation to overcome! it's one that has become ingrained by habit as it used to be important but generally isn't any longer, 32bit or not.

The parallel switching ADC designs and very low EIN of 32bit float recorders help extend dynamic range sufficiently to fully accommodate very low ambient noisefloors that don't occur in concert taper situations.  Most modern recorders that are not 32bit float can be used in essentially the same way as 32bit recorders for concert recording. I use a DR2d for classical recording, which when recording in 24bit probably has a real-world dynamic range of only around 18bit equivalent or so at best.  I've never actually measured it.  But as they should be, the noisefloor of the recordings I make with it are dominated by the ambient noisefloor of the hall.  Even with an effective range of only about 18bit and the DR2d's input levels remaining the same all the time, I use only two different gain settings on the preamp upstream of the recorder- one for classical recording (determined by the need to keep the recording chain noisefloor lower than the ambient noisefloor) and one for very much louder PA amplified stuff (determined by the needed to keep the loudest SPL from clipping).  Once those settings have been determined, there is no need to look at or worry about them again.

Using the Zoom F8 instead and recording in 24bit, I don't even need two gain settings.

Completely agree, the issue was that the unlocked recorder was bumping against other things in my pocket, which was the cause for increased levels. I need things to be as foolproof as possible!
Mics: mk4v/mk41v/mk22 > CMC1L/Nbobs, 4061, MKE2
Preamps: Mixpre-D, Nbox Platinum ABS
Recorders: Mixpre-6 ii, PCM-A10

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2023, 12:42:07 PM »
I hear that!  Practicality reins supreme when taping in real world situations.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline daze

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2023, 03:14:02 PM »
I tend to set my levels on the conservative side, and when I use my dr2d, even with the gain jacked up to the max, I don't come anywhere near peaking even if I tried.  I record in 24 bit and haven't ever noticed any noise issues due to the conservative levels.  (I have, of course, gotten lots of noise from the screaming hooting whistling screeching cackling talking buffoons that always seem to surround me).  I don't really need any new recorders but I'm interested in seeing the price point on this one, as the size looks like a dream come true.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2023, 04:37:19 PM »
I've a general question which applies to a potential application of these recorders in particular.  Can the timecode capability of these types of recorders sync several of them accurately enough to avoid having to do the align + stretch/shrink thing in post?  I'm not well versed in time-code, but I do know that the accuracy required to sync audio being recorded across multiple machines with phase-coherent accuracy is far far greater than what is required to sync visual frame rates (the difference in frame rate and sample rate is something like two orders of magnitude). Timecode is not wordclock.

In a perfect word I'd use a single recorder similar to this which features 6 or 8 input channels.  Since that's a unicorn wish, I next wonder about running three or four of these recorders sync'd together and controlled by the phone app.  Possible? Realistic?  Phase accurate?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 04:39:32 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline 2X2

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2023, 08:18:44 PM »
I've a general question which applies to a potential application of these recorders in particular.  Can the timecode capability of these types of recorders sync several of them accurately enough to avoid having to do the align + stretch/shrink thing in post?  I'm not well versed in time-code, but I do know that the accuracy required to sync audio being recorded across multiple machines with phase-coherent accuracy is far far greater than what is required to sync visual frame rates (the difference in frame rate and sample rate is something like two orders of magnitude). Timecode is not wordclock.

In a perfect word I'd use a single recorder similar to this which features 6 or 8 input channels.  Since that's a unicorn wish, I next wonder about running three or four of these recorders sync'd together and controlled by the phone app.  Possible? Realistic?  Phase accurate?

timecode isnt really useful for what we do, all of the recorders are still running on their own clocks

the only thing you are buying with timecode is making the (not-too-hard) process of finding whatever starting sample you align multiple wavs with slightly easier, but they will still drift apart in time, a little, or a lot, depending on gear

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2023, 10:15:57 AM »
As I suspected, thanks.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2023, 12:31:30 PM »
I googled Zoom M3 and I just got a microphone.  Any info about the recorder?

It's Zoom's camera-mounted shotgun mic that has its own builtin 32 bit recorder and M/S decoder. I expect the recorder may be similar to the F3, though I haven't compared specs, except that M3 is a self-contained mic + recorder system/not for external mics. Haven't tried it, but it has to be way better than those garbage rode mini shotguns I see on everyone's camera around  LA.

The recorder part might be great, but I don't think we have many data points to judge the quality of Zoom's mic designs other than the modular models made for the H series, and we can't really test the quality of those independent of the recorders they attach to with their proprietary connection. Rode makes some excellent mics at their higher price tiers, but his M3 might be no better than the cheap Rode mini shotguns. For either product, they probably aren't marketing to the same people who might buy a Sanken CMS-50.
I think there's a dedicated thread somewhere for this device, but as far as I am aware, the only music test from it online is this - https://youtu.be/4A3S1tuq2GQ - where the stereo width indicated on screen is clearly not what is being heard, but I think that's an error in making the video.  Anyway, while it's hard to know what this particular pipe organ should sound like, I would say that to my ears the sound is no disaster, especially at the modest price.  And now, back to the Deity..

Offline jielkade

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2023, 01:40:09 PM »
any idea of ​​its release date on the market ?

Offline swordfish

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2023, 01:59:11 PM »
any idea of ​​its release date on the market ?

I asked a German vendor about the release date...his answer was August/September...price unknown!

https://www.marcotec-shop.de/de/deity-pr-2-pocket-audio-recorder.html

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2023, 03:08:29 PM »
any idea of ​​its release date on the market ?

I asked a German vendor about the release date...his answer was August/September...price unknown!

https://www.marcotec-shop.de/de/deity-pr-2-pocket-audio-recorder.html

Gotham Sound says September

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/pr-2-pocket-recorder
Mics: mk4v/mk41v/mk22 > CMC1L/Nbobs, 4061, MKE2
Preamps: Mixpre-D, Nbox Platinum ABS
Recorders: Mixpre-6 ii, PCM-A10

Offline wordgroove

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2023, 03:57:40 PM »
oh boy sooo looking forward to getttng a DR2

thanks y'all for reporting on release date... etc..


Offline SMsound

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2023, 06:10:46 PM »
What are the best mics you could power with this unit?

Spec's say:
3V / 5V / LINE Switchable mic power

I think 5V is just under what you'd ideally want for DPA 4060/4061... Maybe the low voltage version of those?
waves -> bits

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2023, 01:30:56 PM »
What are the best mics you could power with this unit?

Spec's say:
3V / 5V / LINE Switchable mic power

I think 5V is just under what you'd ideally want for DPA 4060/4061... Maybe the low voltage version of those?

I am 99% sure 4060 & 4061 can be fully powered with 5-10v. 4063 only needs 3v.
Mics: mk4v/mk41v/mk22 > CMC1L/Nbobs, 4061, MKE2
Preamps: Mixpre-D, Nbox Platinum ABS
Recorders: Mixpre-6 ii, PCM-A10

Offline kindms

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2023, 05:24:51 PM »
seems you can control the units with this software

https://www.sidus.link/sidusAudio/software
AKG c426, AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
Little Bear tube Pre >Outlaw Audio 2200 Monoblocks > VR-2's

 

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