Topic: TSKB: 24 bit DVD-A and a playback system

[svenkid]

TS-
I have checked the playback archives, and dabbled in the playback forum.
What Im wanting to do is a 3 step thing. These span a few different topic categories, so I figured the open forum would be the best place for this post.

1) what is a good dvd audio disc player to get (is it possible to get one that can also playback cds - probably not but..)
2) Im using Nero to burn cdr ands dvd data discs. I checked the dvd options, and didnt see a dvd-audio option, am I missing something or do I need a duifferent burning option?

Thanks for the help. I hope to be 24 bit by the Oh7

[kindms]

RE: DVD-A

wavelab will burn them. and there are a few other free applications that will also burn dvd-a

DVD-A players are capable of playing CD's and many of them can also play SACD's

players will depend on your budget. I took the advice of many on this board and went with the pioneer elite DVD player. The newer model is the 45a its MSRP is 350.00

Link to pioneer site:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069743_35168,00.html

DVD-A Software discussion
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=72211.0

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Denon and Pioneer make some nice multi format players that will play back CD, audio-DVD, and DVDA.   Audiogon is your friend.  You don't need to spend a lot of money to get in.   I have a denon but I've played with a pioneer and both produced excellent soudn out the analog audio ports.

Nero can be used to burn file structure or image to DVDA or audio DVD but you need an authoring program.  In the computer recording forum there are threads that describe a free DVD-A tool or you can buy audio-DVD creator for about $40.   I use audioDVDcreator to author the DVD file structure and Roxio to burn to media.

[bl6216@yahoo.com]

I would look at some of the MARANTZ DVD-a players. They play DVD-V, DVD-A, SACD-Multi, SACD-Stereo, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, SVCD, VCD, CD, CD-R/CD-RW, MP3, WMA, JPEG, DiVX and start at like $600 to $2,000. They are not a lot of money and they sound good for the money.


-Brian

[phanophish]

Ditto the Pioneer DVD Audio player reccomendation.  Beware of other vendors that intterupt the PCM bitstream during playback at track gaps.  Many other vendors will introduce a small gap themselves or the intteruption in the digital out causes your external D>A to have to resynch on the clock and you get a short half second or so gap.  The one drawback to Audio DVD Creator is it uses the DVD Video standard rather than the DVD Audio standard to encode the Audio.  the result is a more widely compatible lower resolution audio recording.  It still sounds good and does have some other attractive features (track names, slideshows, etc.)

This site linked in another post basically has all the info you will need....

http://24bit.turtleside.com/

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

The one drawback to Audio DVD Creator is it uses the DVD Video standard rather than the DVD Audio standard to encode the Audio.  the result is a more widely compatible lower resolution audio recording.

How does a 24/96 audio DVD-V have lower resolution than a 24/96 DVD-A? 

[phanophish]

The one drawback to Audio DVD Creator is it uses the DVD Video standard rather than the DVD Audio standard to encode the Audio.  the result is a more widely compatible lower resolution audio recording.

How does a 24/96 audio DVD-V have lower resolution than a 24/96 DVD-A? 

It's my understanding the the software will only do PCM at 48/16 otherwise you are looking at AC3 compression at higher bitrates.  Did this change?  Their site is a little sparse on details and they got rid of the forums.

http://www.audio-dvd-creator.com/

I've just had good luck with Scott's software and he is also a TS.com member. 

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

It's my understanding the the software will only do PCM at 48/16 otherwise you are looking at AC3 compression at higher bitrates.  Did this change?

AFAIK, audio DVD creator has always supported 24/96 LPCM.  I've always used it for 24/96 without problems, although some people report some issues with firmware in inexpensive players.


Nothing wrong with fluffing the free tools :-), I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a misunderstanding.

[nickgregory]

It's my understanding the the software will only do PCM at 48/16 otherwise you are looking at AC3 compression at higher bitrates.  Did this change?

AFAIK, audio DVD creator has always supported 24/96 LPCM.  I've always used it for 24/96 without problems, although some people report some issues with firmware in inexpensive players.

this is my experience as well.  No issues at all

[tapeworm48]

I use the Denon DVD-1920 for playback of CDs and DVD-A etc.  so far it has worked well for me.

Ive burned DVD-A discs using Nero, after preparing them using scott brown's DVD-Audiofile.

for audio-dvd, i tried out Lplex last week, and it worked well.  it was at 24/48.  never used audio-dvd-creator.

[svenkid]

what's the consensus on using wavelab 5.01b to create the dvd-audio discs?

[scervin]

I had used the Pioneer Elite 45a for a couple years and found that to be very good for the money.  That said, I've found the Onkyo SP1000 to be much better for DVD-A/SACD, CD, and DVD playback. 

[gewwang]

what's the consensus on using wavelab 5.01b to create the dvd-audio discs?

I've been using Wavelab v5.00a to author dvd-a's for about a year now with no problems. Once I create the .iso in wavelab, I then use Nero to burn the iso image to dvd-r.

[svenkid]

what's the consensus on using wavelab 5.01b to create the dvd-audio discs?

I've been using Wavelab v5.00a to author dvd-a's for about a year now with no problems. Once I create the .iso in wavelab, I then use Nero to burn the iso image to dvd-r.

  I think I can figure that out. make an iso image thing in wav lab, save it, then use nero to burn it to a dvd-video?

[gewwang]

Here's an older thread with some steps to author or burn dvd-a using wavelab. I'm sure there's a newer thread out there but I just did a quick search and couldn't find it.

http://www.taperssection.com/index.php?topic=22351.0

[BobW]

The only reason for me to go DVD-A over DVD-V for PCM audio is the ability to do 24/88.2 (my preference) and the better DACs that you may (or may not) find in a DVD-A player.
DVD-V will only support 24/48 and 24/96, I believe.
DVD-A has 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/192, and 24/96 as well as 16/44.1, 20/44.1, 20/48 and 16/48

There are other encodings allowed based on compression and multi-channel support.
I don't remember those....  in fact, check me on the above:

http://www.berklee.edu/bt/112/alook.html

[pfife]

go diskless.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

DVD-V will only support 24/48 and 24/96, I believe.

also 16 bit at either of those rates.  Those are supported bit rates for LPCM.

As for the better quality DACs, I doubt that is as much an issue today as several years ago when DVD-A was supported only in expensive audiophile decks.  All the current model multi-format players support at least 24/96 LPCM and sound pretty decent.  The higher end decks generally have better solid state devices and better components in the analog signal path so they sound better as a result of that and not the format support. 

out of curiosity, why do you use 88.2?

[dmonterisi]

out of curiosity, why do you use 88.2?

i would imagine because the downsampling to 44.1 is (probably) more reliable.

[Brian Skalinder]

go diskless.

What he said.  But it should be disc with a C, not a K.  Discless listening is awesome!  Soooo happy I don't do optical media for listening anymore.  Love my HD-based system, I find it way more convenient.  (Of course, my Squeezebox doesn't do 24/96, but I"m awfully pleased with 24/48, and the new SB firmware will downsample on-the-fly from 96 to 48...not ideal, but functional, at least.)

[pfife]

go diskless.

What he said.  But it should be disc with a C, not a K.  Discless listening is awesome!  Soooo happy I don't do optical media for listening anymore.  Love my HD-based system, I find it way more convenient.  (Of course, my Squeezebox doesn't do 24/96, but I"m awfully pleased with 24/48, and the new SB firmware will downsample on-the-fly from 96 to 48...not ideal, but functional, at least.)

  believe it or not, I actually had it typed with a "C", but it looked funny to me, so I changed it!   

i reckon by the time I figure out what the heck you guys are talking about, and finally get the gumption to give it a go; y'all will have moved on to the latest and greatest system that will prove to further confuse and confound me into my grave......

goes and loads another dvd-a disc, and kicks his feet up.

Moke, really its as simple as using a computer as a source... I'd imagine you're already doing something very similar for monitoring and tracking... most of the complication comes in the networking and backup.   I haven't moved to the squeezebox yet, but I'm getting there.   I'm trying to decide between a SB and or a nice DAC to go between a PC and the amp....

SlimServer is pretty sick.   

[scervin]

what about all the noise from the inside of the PC?  Power supply?  Just wondering, but I'm sticking to my optical media for now.  In the next house with home automation, I imagine I'll move to a server for general listening.  Critical listening will NEVER include a PC.   

[pfife]

what about all the noise from the inside of the PC?  Power supply?  Just wondering, but I'm sticking to my optical media for now.  In the next house with home automation, I imagine I'll move to a server for general listening.  Critical listening will NEVER include a PC.   

squeezebox gets around the noise issue.   I have a PC hooked up analog out -> analog in to my amp, and I think it sounds fine.  Believe it or not?

[Brian Skalinder]

what about all the noise from the inside of the PC?  Power supply?  Just wondering, but I'm sticking to my optical media for now.  In the next house with home automation, I imagine I'll move to a server for general listening.  Critical listening will NEVER include a PC.   

squeezebox gets around the noise issue.

Yeah, same here.  PC's simply delivering a 24/48 digital stream to the Squeezebox.  I then run the digi-out of my SB into my 3000ES in the LR.  For my office, I run digi-out of my soundcard to my playback DAC > pre > etc.

[Ed.]

I had used the Pioneer Elite 45a for a couple years and found that to be very good for the money.  That said, I've found the Onkyo SP1000 to be much better for DVD-A/SACD, CD, and DVD playback. 

I bought pioneer player, and may be interested in selling it if you're still looking for a player.  Its an all-in-one, plays everything but divx I think, but it'll do cd/dvda/sacd/dvdv for sure.  PM if you're at all interested.  I think I paid around $225-$250 from Scott.

As for using a pc, if you're willing to build it yourself, and use the proper fans, etc it will run silent...I've found this site rather helpful: http://www.htpcnews.com/

[L Ron Hoover]

My plan (and I know it's not practical for everyone) is to place a computer in the basement and run ~20ft optical  up to the Sony. The box will be somewhat right below my listening chair with the monitor and wireless keyboard next to me on a table. I will have to run DVI cable and USB cable up through the listening end of the room and optical up through the stereo end. I just hope that jitter won't come into play with an optical cable that long.

[BobW]

out of curiosity, why do you use 88.2?

i would imagine because the downsampling to 44.1 is (probably) more reliable.

Yup, downsampling 88.2 to 44.1 is considered to be preferable to DS from 96 to 44.1, if CD is the ultimate intent
Mark Nutters, from the 24bit FAQ, swears that it sounds better as well
It seems too logical to deny

I like optical media.
It travels to the cars well
It's shiny (a quality that cannot be taken too lightly)
It's easy to hand back to bands after recording them
It's easy to share with folks
Sure I am an entrenched ludite, but it works for me right now
Perhaps I'll go Solid State on playback soon

Who's got my heady S.S. FLAC player with great D/As and silky pres?
And more importantly, who has a quality car deck with an easy Aux in?

[Ed.]

And more importantly, who has a quality car deck with an easy Aux in?

I've been selling the ipod too much lately, but just a note, that just about any car deck with cd changer controls can have an ipod hooked up to it and for the most part, you'll be able to control the ipod from the car deck.

[Brian Skalinder]

I've been selling the ipod too much lately, but just a note, that just about any car deck with cd changer controls can have an ipod hooked up to it and for the most part, you'll be able to control the ipod from the car deck.

Not the VW Phaeton, unfortunately for my father.  Gotta say this is one of the coolest features of the iPod, though.  If only I had a car with a CD player, I might re-evaluate my iAudio M3 player.

[svenkid]

I still have a cassette deck in my truck.

I have one in my car. all you gotta do is get one of those cassette deals that can hoook to any player out of it's headphone jack and it works!

[Brian Skalinder]

I tried that with a couple of different cassette adaptor units, and they both created a high freq tone that burrowed through my head. Somrthing about my trucks electronics, or engine, create an rfi tone that is unbearable.

Yeah, I've used both the cassette inserts and the RF transmitters.  Both sound terrible to my ears.  'Course the crappy car stereo sounds terrible, too, but it sounds worse using the cassette insert or RF transmitter.  And one of the big benefits for me of the iPod / CD hookup is  the ability to control it through the stereo CD controls, instead of fumbling around with a tiny little device with puny screen and buttons while I'm driving.  Will have to re-evaluate when we get a new car, of course. 

[svenkid]

thanks for all the replys everyone, about half were over my head. I think Im going to go with one of thoose pioneer units, and burn dvd audio discs from my 124 bit rrewcordings. Im stillnot 100% positive I know how to burn dvd audio discs, but I think you can burn dvd-movie discs that'll play.

[Ed.]

thanks for all the replys everyone, about half were over my head. I think Im going to go with one of thoose pioneer units, and burn dvd audio discs from my 124 bit rrewcordings. Im stillnot 100% positive I know how to burn dvd audio discs, but I think you can burn dvd-movie discs that'll play.

check out the program dvd-audiofile, all you do is load the flacs in it that you want to burn to a dvd-a, and it creates a burnable .iso file.  Just burn the iso with dvd decryptor or nero or whatever.  its as easy as pie.

[svenkid]

thanks for all the replys everyone, about half were over my head. I think Im going to go with one of thoose pioneer units, and burn dvd audio discs from my 124 bit rrewcordings. Im stillnot 100% positive I know how to burn dvd audio discs, but I think you can burn dvd-movie discs that'll play.

check out the program dvd-audiofile, all you do is load the flacs in it that you want to burn to a dvd-a, and it creates a burnable .iso file.  Just burn the iso with dvd decryptor or nero or whatever.  its as easy as pie.

cool, I just dl'd it, does it work with Windows, Ill try it out tonite.

[Ed.]

I'm running it on windows, I can't remember if there were two versions or not, I think its all its the same.

[pfife]

one benefit of that audio dvd creator is that you aren't limited to only dvd-a capable dvd players.

[macdaddy]

imgburn burns iso images. free download.

m0k3 - try an fm modulator - that works well, and doesnt get the whir from the car's electronics...

samplitude 8.x does dvd-a authoring, too...

discless is where it is at, but i have been saying that for years  i like the setup i have going spdif/coax out of the 'puter into a dac (actually a jitter reducer/reclocker first, and then the dac), and then into my integrated tube amp, a (heavily) modded joLida 302a. the 'puter is big, with a lcd display i have running, and it displays output from foobar. i have one of those ir airboards to control the computer, BUT i also have a learning theatermaster remote, so i used the remote and have a device setup which is all computer. i have a lcd display mounted on the wall above the stereo, and i use the remote to control the 'puter, which plays files via fb2k. oh, and i have milkdrop plugin for fb2k, so i get the wicked visualisations, too. so the 'puter is like a stereo component, with a bitchin display. and since i have a locationfree player on the network (config'd with a directv receiver), the 'puter/display doubles as a television

i have a squeezebox sitting here, and i have already paid for the modifications to be done to it by wayne @ bolder, but with the move and the construction, i havent sent it to him (i gotta get on that). but that will be the living room player, powered by a modded t-amp and some mounted mixcubes (waf of 10 )

but it is good to know how to bun dvd-a because that is what you want to be able to give out to artists...

[BobW]

I still have a cassette deck in my truck.

I have one in my car. all you gotta do is get one of those cassette deals that can hoook to any player out of it's headphone jack and it works!

I tried that with a couple of different cassette adaptor units, and they both created a high freq tone that burrowed through my head. Somrthing about my trucks electronics, or engine, create an rfi tone that is unbearable.

cough...cough...cough...must.........bypass......alternator....with.........cap......ac.....i.....tor......
.....be....fore.....its.......too.......late!......cough.....cough....cough......     

See:
http://www.avionicswest.com/myviewpoint/alternators.htm

[macdaddy]

I still have a cassette deck in my truck.

I have one in my car. all you gotta do is get one of those cassette deals that can hoook to any player out of it's headphone jack and it works!

I tried that with a couple of different cassette adaptor units, and they both created a high freq tone that burrowed through my head. Somrthing about my trucks electronics, or engine, create an rfi tone that is unbearable.

cough...cough...cough...must.........bypass......alternator....with.........cap......ac.....i.....tor...........be....fore.....its.......too.......late!......cough...
..cough....cough......

is this the thing you hear when you accelerate and listen to certain am stations..? is tis something that needs to be fixed..? it seems common to alot of cars, with no adverse effects...

[BobW]

is this the thing you hear when you accelerate and listen to certain am stations..? is tis something that needs to be fixed..? it seems common to alot of cars, with no adverse effects...

I doubt that it would break the deck, but it may affect your hearing, at least temporarily.
Cheapest fix that you'll ever make



or go full throttle



Here's a place with the caps for $0.95 (cheap)   

[pfife]

Ive had this problem with am radio especially, and it's only in aftermarket stereos.

[Ed.]

to me it sounds like something isn't grounded properly.  I know in my car if I don't have my amps grounded properly, I get the whir noise throughout my system.