Topic: Stealthable HDD Camcorder with audio (line) - in.

[SClassical]

Hi
Can anyone tell me if there's a stealthable size HDD camcorder that has audio line-in that uses SD/HD/CF cards rather than tapes/miniDVD? Like to have one with a monitor, too... Am I asking too much on a camcorder?? Thanks!

[BayTaynt3d]

If its HDD then its not SD/CF. I'm confused?

Most SD/CF videocams suck bad right now. Most are highly-compressed MPEG4. They are OK for stealthing I guess, but I personally wouldn't bother. Also, good luck finding one with audio in. You'll have much better luck finding an HDD cam that has audio in, but finding audio in sometimes isn't easy in consumer cams. Also, most HDD cams shoot in either MPEG4 or MPEG2, I'd make sure to get the MPEG2 variety if you go that route. Also, there are a couple of HD HDD cams out there right now using either the HDV codec or some new flavor of compressed HD codec. They all have their pluses and minuses though -- and BTW, none of those cams will record 16-bit audio, they'll record in a lossy format instead. I still think MiniDV is the best value going for a whole bunch of reasons (lower price, decent resolution, easily archived TAPES, and 16-bit audio), but count me in the minority...

[beefstew]

IMO Hdd cams are bigger than a majority of MiniDV cams

[SClassical]

If its HDD then its not SD/CF. I'm confused?

Most SD/CF videocams suck bad right now. Most are highly-compressed MPEG4. They are OK for stealthing I guess, but I personally wouldn't bother. Also, good luck finding one with audio in. You'll have much better luck finding an HDD cam that has audio in, but finding audio in sometimes isn't easy in consumer cams. Also, most HDD cams shoot in either MPEG4 or MPEG2, I'd make sure to get the MPEG2 variety if you go that route. Also, there are a couple of HD HDD cams out there right now using either the HDV codec or some new flavor of compressed HD codec. They all have their pluses and minuses though -- and BTW, none of those cams will record 16-bit audio, they'll record in a lossy format instead. I still think MiniDV is the best value going for a whole bunch of reasons (lower price, decent resolution, easily archived TAPES, and 16-bit audio), but count me in the minority...

I'm interested in whatever storage as long it doesn't use tapes - easier to work with than tapes. Looks as if I am asking too much too early... maybe in the future there is a solid state camcorder small enough for stealthing and also have audio line-in.

[BayTaynt3d]

Dude, tapes rule for EVERYTHING but the initial real-time transfer. Just wait until you try archiving your originals from HDD/CF/SD. You think 24-bit AUD takes up space, wait until you start dealing with 8+ gigs/hour of video (MPEG2). At least with tapes, you can leave the originals right on the tape and re-capture (using a cue file) years from now without hassles. Also, you can "print-to-tape" your final product for backups too (in hi-res no doubt, not MPEG2). Personally, I think solid state for video isn't ready for prime time. Maybe, just maybe, in the case of P2 on the HVX I might be convinced, but that's HD, and P2 comes with its own host of workflow hassles. Don't sell MiniDV short, right now it's the bomb still, and they come in very small packages, and some even with audio in.

[kuuan]

I'm interested in whatever storage as long it doesn't use tapes - easier to work with than tapes. Looks as if I am asking too much too early... maybe in the future there is a solid state camcorder small enough for stealthing and also have audio line-in.

The problem of HD Cams that record to Harddiscs, DVDs or SD cards is not their size, recently they come very small. They are good for persons who own a HD TV and want to see what they have shot directly without editing, or people who have a very fast computer and all the rest of expensive HD set up.
If you want decent quality video and audio which you want to edit without spending a couple of grands miniDV is the choice, BayTaynt3d knows exactly what he is talking about, much more than me, I am here to second him.

[SClassical]

Thanks for your advise... anyone recommend a small stealthable miniDV which has audio (line) - in? Or all the audio (line) - in miniDV camcorders are big?

[kuuan]

best have a look around: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

I know a bit about mostly already discontinued  Panasonic which fair well in the audio apartment:
GS65, GS120 or GS200, or the newer GS150 and GS250 all have mic in providing plug in power and a headphone out. I believe they do not have manual mic level adjustment and you cannot bypass their internal preamp and A/D, if coming from a mixer/preamp you'd have to attenuate again first.

Of the Panasonics to my knowledge it is only the GS400 and GS500 that have mic level meters and live mic level adjustment, the GS500 lackimg the headphone out though. The Panasonic GS400 is the only consumer/prosumer cam produced so far with manual controls rivaling pro cams, and there are no other consumer cams I know of which do have manual mic level controls.

enquire abt. Panasonic DV cams here: http://www.pana3ccduser.com/index.php

I do not know much of other models, of other famous producers I believe that it was rather Canon that provided mic in, Sony less.
e.g.: Canon Elura 100

Rarely are so many audio features loaded into a camcorder that will sell on the street for under $400. This alone is a compelling reason to consider the Elura 100.

Most newer consumer cams lack audio features, max. have a mic-in. If you do want to go the HD way, - their resolution undoubtly is much better than the SD = standard defintion cams using MiniDV, but editing is a challendge -  the Sony HC1 has a mic in, the newer HC3 doesn't ( has one, nut only for 2 expensive and inferior Sony mics ) both record to DV tapes. The very new harddisc cam Sony HDR-SR1 offers better than usual audio features, at least it does have stereo mini plug in and headphone out, and two mic level settings:

Normal is the default setting on the HDR-SR1. “Low” corresponds to the camcorder’s fixed audio level setting, and is analogous to manually setting a microphone at a single level. It’s not much in the way of audio level control, but it’s more than most consumer camcorders offer.
With two microphone inputs, two Micref Level options, Dolby 5.1 Surround Sound capability, and a headphone jack, the HDR-SR1 offers more versatility out of the box than most consumer camcorders on the market. Props to Sony for offering a decent suite of audio recording options.

this page helps you to find 'your' model:
http://camcorderinfo.resultspage.com/display.php?p=D&ts=v3

if you don't want to spend the big bucks easiest solution could be buying a not costly cam even if it doesn't have any 'advanced' audio features, recording audio separately to your audio recorder, use the 'inferior' audio from the cam's built in mic as reference only to syncronize in post.

[evasivetear]

panasonic's GS300 has a mic-in & real nice picture in low light.  it's pretty small...might be pretty good for what you're looking for.

dunno about the ability to play with the audio levels though....if there is a way i haven't found it yet

[kuuan]

The GS300 is a very good cam...and does feature a stereo mic plug for external mics.
However it does not have a headphone out.
The same is true for the somewhat bigger and more expensive GS500, mic in = yes, headphone out = no, but in addituion it does have mic level adjustment in it's menu.

To compare the two see: http://www.pana3ccduser.com/article.php?filename=Review:-GS300-and-GS500-3CCD-Camcorders