Topic: Recording 4-8 tracks simultainiously with a usb audio interface

[live2496]

I'm pretty sure that the issue with the UA-5 is that it's USB and a bit older technology.

Firewire devices can carry more channels so you should be ok.

Another thing to consider is the RME multiface and hdsp cardbus card. If you can pick up a used one they are great. No mic pre's but all channels are usable at the same time. With rock solid performance.

[ghellquist]

I just read the promo info on the M-Audio Firewire 1814, and I'm still not sure which part tells me it will record 4-8 channels separately.

Forget the really old stuff like the UA5. The 1814 is modern with USB 2.0. Plenty of bandwidht there.
The Firewire 1814 can transfer 8 signals to the computer at the time. Add an extra box with ADAT (exampel Behringer ADA8000) and you can transfer 16 signals in to the computer. All at the same time. Now, if you add one more box with an SPDIF signal, you might be able to get 2 more channels at the same time. That is 18 concurrent signals at the same time.
There are however two things that has to be true in order to get 18 concurrent channels (each into its own track).
 - max sample rate 48kHz. Reason is that on an ADAT cable you get only 4 channels (not 8 ) on 88.2 and 96kHz. And with this box, if you run at 192kHz the ADAT will not work at all.
 - if you want to run both 2 inputs via SPDIF and 8 inputs via ADAT (plus the 8 analog) you will probably need to synchronize the clock in a bit special way. Reason is that most 2 channel boxes with SPDIF output lacks the synch input so they need to be set as master. (Now all this is very special, simply forget it for the moment).

How many channels your computer can handle is another thing. There is a lot of interacting factors here, especially around exactly how the USB2.0 interface is done in the computer. Older computers, say more than 3 years old, have more problems than modern ones. When running Windows there is also a lot of talk about problems with Vista, but then again some people run it just fine.

Complicated, indeed. Good questions though. Keep them coming.

// Gunnar

[illconditioned]

I'm also looking for a USB device, ideally four or eight channels.  Preamp would be great, but line in would be fine too.

Up till now I've been using two alternatives.  One is the Digigram VX440, which is a PCMCIA/Cardbus card.  This is great, but a lot of newer machines don't have this interface.  Another is an older Emagic/EMI card with six analog ins, 2 analog outs.  But the ADC on this card are not great.

Still seeking modern alternatives.
  Richard

[heyitsmejess]

this thread is a gold mine of info that i havent been able to find on here.

perhaps this could go in the all-inclusive FYI thread up top....

[intpseeker]

I was in my local GC looking for mic adapters without luck, and asked about audio interfaces, and what you looked for to indicate the number of discrete channels that would be passed through to the recorder/computer.

One guy pointed out a few (they had most of the name brand ones in stock), and corrected himself saying "Wait, these only sends two channels, but this one, a large presonus sends more".
So I asked how many and how do you know that.

Well, he wasn't sure how many, maybe four, and he knew it was two channel or more than two channel because of the training they had received. When we were looking at the specs, he wasn't able to point out which factoid tipped one off to the number of channels passed through.

I still wonder if I'm making this harder than it really is.

[Chris K]

if you are locked into a usb device, you may want to look at the MOTU 828mkII USB version. But I think you would be better served with firewire as others have stated. The availability to sidechain a firewire drive is sublime, especially since you should not really record onto the drive that has your operating system on it.

are you looking for a device for a laptop for a mobile rig, or for your desktop?

[intpseeker]

if you are locked into a usb device, you may want to look at the MOTU 828mkII USB version. But I think you would be better served with firewire as others have stated. The availability to sidechain a firewire drive is sublime, especially since you should not really record onto the drive that has your operating system on it.

are you looking for a device for a laptop for a mobile rig, or for your desktop?

I would like to go laptop, not to record shows, but to be able to more easily set up a portable studio, where the group wants to record, and get individual tracks for each vocal/instrument that then can be mastered.

Is firewire a problem with a pc laptop? I think of firewire and I think of mac.

[Chris K]

well, i use a mac which has a 6pin firewire so no worries there. if you use a pc laptop i dont think it will be 6 pin and probably 4 pin. if your laptop has a cardbus/pcmcia slot, then you can use a firewire card like the one in the pic below and you should be fine. in fact before i got my macbook i used a dell d600 with the pcmcia card in the photo and it worked fine.

[intpseeker]

This one mentions routing discrete channels to the recorder:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/NRV10.html


This one doesn't say it directly, but does mention sending stereo pairs :

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire2626.html

Ok...what is a stereo pair? I think I want the vocal separate from the instrument, separate from another vocal, etc.

[ghellquist]

Some notes on this.

First, most multichannel interfaces today sends each channel separarately. This goes for both USB and Firewire. One marker to look for is that it uses USB2 as the older USB has bandwidth for only 2 in and 2 out. Do check out some alternatives and then come back here and we can guide you. Start out with the assumption that it will work and once you have a short-list come back for verification.

The people at GC are not necessarily very knowledgeable. I would not put too much weight on what they say. Also remember that they will never (that is NEVER ever) recommend anything they cannot quickly shift out to you from stock, they are salesmen firstly going on commission.

You can definitely use a  laptop and record directly to the in-built harddrive. I have done this for at least five years often with up to 16 channels. It is not the optimum but good enough (like I would not have much advantage of a Ferrari in normal rush hour traffice, will not get there faster). Once recording has started there is very little activity from the operating system towards the drive. Just remember to turn off internet and antivirus while recording and you will be fine to go. In my experience it is a convenience to divide the drive into two partitions, using one of them for audio files. Not strictly necessary though.

But again, some laptops simply work better and some worse. You simply have to try it.

It used to be that Firewire was superior to USB, but the market now is moving towards USB2. One reason is that many modern machidnes, including Macs, does not carry firewire anymore. Basically USB2 is good enough so why have things that simply increase the price.

As said before Firewire comes in 4,6 and 9 pin varieties. All you need to connect a firewire audio interface is the correct type of cable. There are however very few portables that can supply power over the firewire cable to the interface, so expect a separate power supply. For the really technically interested, the higher speed firewire comes only on the 9pin variety, but it automatically "shifts down" if the audio interface cannot support the higher speed. Again for most users you will not need it (no need of Ferrari).

Good luck, the search for your perfect interface is here.

// Gunnar

[ghellquist]

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/NRV10.html
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire2626.html

Ok...what is a stereo pair? I think I want the vocal separate from th instrument, separate from another vocal, etc.

Yes both will fit your bill and send many channels to the computer.
A good idea is to find the user manual and check. Often you can download that from the website.

You can always divide a stereo pair into two mono channels inside the computer software, nothing to worry about.  Each instrument or vocal then goes to its own mono channel.

// Gunnar

[sunjan]

There are however very few portables that can supply power over the firewire cable to the interface, so expect a separate power supply.

Like Gunnar said, it's wise to pay attention to the powering options:
1. Bus power
2. DC power (either w/ AC adapter, or external battery over DC connector)
3. Direct AC power with internal converter (fortunately rare these days)

If you foresee situations when you don't have access to wall power, make sure your box can be battery powered. Bus power can be OK for short sets, but it will sap your lappy battery, diminishing overall runtime.

Two recent similar threads with some gear suggestions:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,117290.msg1567909.html#msg1567909
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,114869.msg1536752.html#msg1536752

[Matt Quinn]

I'm venturing into this arena myself, with an Alesis Multimix 8 Firewire.  Now, if I only had time to sit down and play with it.  I've heard good things about Reaper (software) and am going to try it, because Cubase LE looked a little cumbersome.  The mixer is nice and compact, has decent pre's, and can be had for <$300.  It's also available in a 12 ch, IIRC.

Pat

I own a MultiMix 8 USB 2.0, and have done 8 tracks @ 32bit/48k into Adobe Audition for upwards of 2 hours without an issue.

[Chris K]

This one mentions routing discrete channels to the recorder:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/NRV10.html


This one doesn't say it directly, but does mention sending stereo pairs :

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire2626.html

Ok...what is a stereo pair? I think I want the vocal separate from the instrument, separate from another vocal, etc.

I dont know much about the mixer, but the Profire 2626 gets good reviews, and if I needed an interface with 8 XLR's I think this would be the frontrunner. I really like the M-Audio drivers having used them on some of my earlier pieces of gear (audiophole 2496 pci, firewire410, and now firewire 1814) and on both mac and windoze. And the M-Audio products allow you to try Pro-Tools without buying digi-design gear.

[live2496]

This one mentions routing discrete channels to the recorder:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/NRV10.html


This one doesn't say it directly, but does mention sending stereo pairs :

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire2626.html

Ok...what is a stereo pair? I think I want the vocal separate from the instrument, separate from another vocal, etc.

On windows it's common to have two inputs or outputs associated together as a pair. If, say for example you had a vocal on #1 and an instrument on #2, you might have to select [1+2] in the recording software and record that as an interleaved file. However, it's usually trivial to split these into mono files afterwards (if you have need to apply separate processing/routing to each.)

In Samplitude you can keep the interleave file as is on a track or read in a mono file and bring that in as a separate track. I'm pretty sure that most audio software has this flexibility.