Topic: Audacity export/workload question (mac)

[achalsey]

Does anyone know how good Audacity's flac encoding program is?  I just realized you can export the files to flac 16 or 24 at level 8, and thinking xACT might be redundant at this point.

First question does anything sound wrong with this work schedule:

Mix/track original import in 24/48 >
export those files 24 bit flac (level 8 ) >
Import those flac tracks >
switch each to 16/44.1 >
export to 16 bit flac (level 8 )
DONE

second question I've always exported the tracks to wav then used xACT for encoding, I'm wondering now, is that an unnecessary step?

[Brian Skalinder]

It's been a while since I've used Audacity, but I don't think you need to re-import the 24-bit exported files.  Simply re-export to 16/44.  Using your example:

Mix/track original import in 24/48 >
export those files 24 bit flac (level 8 ) >
Import those flac tracks >
switch to 16/44.1 >
export to 16 bit flac (level 8 )
DONE

Whether or not xACT is an unnecessary step I suppose depends on how you use xACT.  If Audacity only FLACs at level 8, and you don't want to use level 8, or if you use other features in xACT like generating FFP or aligning on sector boundaries, then it seems there's still value in xACT.

[achalsey]

Thats something I was hoping an audacity person could answer.  The label markers don't change when you change the rate from 48 to 44 so the tracks are all off and you can't set the rate during the export process, only the bit depth, making the reimport of each track individually necessary.  Is there another way to do this?

For the record, Audacity exports from level 1-8 flac and ALL kinds of other formats/options.  I forgot about FFP though, that is helpful with xACT.

Unrelated to OP but follow up question:  Do you need to fix SBE no matter what after exporting to 16 bit, or is that if you just record originally in 16 bit?

[page]

Brian's right, you skip an extra dither step when you leave the original files there and export to 16bit. Audacity has a wonky dither setup compared to just about every other editor I've seen (namely, it doesn't ask anything, it just does unless you explicitly say to never do it).

I don't know what flac version Audacity uses and I have the newest 1.2.1 binaries compiled so I export as wavs and then flac them via the terminal but I'm a nerd like that. The post 1.2.x flac libraries have better compression is the only reason, otherwise I'd probably have Audacity do it as well. The only times I use Audacity's is when I'm doing samples and want to be lazy.

The label markers don't change when you change the rate from 48 to 44 so the tracks are all off and you can't set the rate during the export process, only the bit depth, making the reimport of each track individually necessary.  Is there another way to do this?

Mix/Render as 44.1 prior to export and then export. There is something about the resample during export that doesn't seem to keep the label positions correct, I've had it happen the few times I was doing resampling.

Unrelated to OP but follow up question:  Do you need to fix SBE no matter what after exporting to 16 bit, or is that if you just record originally in 16 bit?

If you set your time selection to one of the CDDA frame settings (either hh:mm frames or just frames) then you shouldn't need to fix any SBEs regardless of source material. That said, conversely, if you're just plunking down track labels, then you'll always have to fix SBEs.


edit: added 2nd paragraph.

[achalsey]

Thanks guys for the responses.  The first try cutting out the extra import step worked fine and cut down a good deal on time, but my next question is about this, page:

Mix/Render as 44.1 prior to export and then export. There is something about the resample during export that doesn't seem to keep the label positions correct, I've had it happen the few times I was doing resampling.

The problem for me (but I haven't experimented much) is tracking (in audacity terms, "labeling").  I'd like to import the original recorded files (24/48), mix, then set down track labels, then export both 24/48 and 16/44 versions, but I can't seem to be able to change the sample rate on whole track and keep the labels where they should be.

However, I thought about the unusual export process and did this per the advice given:

I started with the 24/48 track, set down label markers for each song (tracked), export to flac 24.  No problem.  Then I changed the "project rate" as a whole (in the bottom left corner v. 1.3.14), to 44.1, but didn't change it on the actual track itself, so the track is still labeled 48000 and the change in project rate hasn't shown up.  I assumed due the weird export rules of Audacity that would do the trick so when I exported to flac 16 it would be at 44.1 even though I hadn't changed the actual track itself.  Apparently it worked.  I fixed the SBE in xACT with no "this is not CD quality" errors (as opposed to when I had in the past tried it with 16/48).

I really hope thats all it takes, but page are you saying sometimes when doing that Audacity won't resample the export with the label markers where they should be?  I decoded them back to .wav and put them in itunes and they're tracked out as they should be.


edit:  I'm using the word "track" to talk about two different things.

[bryonsos]

I started with the 24/48 track, set down label markers for each song (tracked), export to flac 24.  No problem.  Then I changed the "project rate" as a whole (in the bottom left corner v. 1.3.14), to 44.1, but didn't change it on the actual track itself, so the track is still labeled 48000 and the change in project rate hasn't shown up.  I assumed due the weird export rules of Audacity that would do the trick so when I exported to flac 16 it would be at 44.1 even though I hadn't changed the actual track itself.  Apparently it worked.  I fixed the SBE in xACT with no "this is not CD quality" errors (as opposed to when I had in the past tried it with 16/48).

I've always used the "Preferences" pull down and reset the sample and bit rates there, rather than in the bottom left corner. It seems to work fine, the resulting tracks don't seem to have any issues. I still use xACT to verify the flacs prior to upload/sharing. The only time I make wavs is if I promised the band a CD. So, my workflow when I want both 24 and 16 bit flacs is:

Import 24/48 master
Normalize
Track by adding labels
Fade in and out
Pull down preferences, make sure it's set for 24/48
Export multiple, when dialogue appears, set to flac
Pull down preferences, change to 16/44.1
Export multiple, when dialogue appears, set to flac
Verify all files with xACT

I'm on a Mac running Snow Leopard using the same Audacity version, but the previous version behaved the same way.

Edit: added "Normalize" to list

[achalsey]

I've always used the "Preferences" pull down and reset the sample and bit rates there, rather than in the bottom left corner. It seems to work fine, the resulting tracks don't seem to have any issues.

Cool, thanks.  I'll give that a shot.

[morst]

Use the latest Audacity Beta for best results. The Stable versions don't output correctly while converting sample rates, they pad each track with silence to make up the length lost by resampling, or something!?!? Very bogus.

Why are you dithering down anyhow? Does anyone still use CD's? STOP DESTROYING MUSIC!!! Hard drives are cheap and the internet is fast!

[achalsey]

That is weird, but I am using the latest Audacity so hopefully all should be good.

I dither for space and because I am not at all an audiophile.  My only source of playback is halfway decent headphones out of a laptop so really the 24 bit difference is pretty much lost.  (I asked for an amp/dac for christmas but alas the request was forgotten about.)

Also, many more people will download the 16 bit version vs the 24.  Its just more convient.  I only recently started recording 24 bit so will back it up and put it out there, but only use the 16 bit.

[page]

The problem for me (but I haven't experimented much) is tracking (in audacity terms, "labeling").  I'd like to import the original recorded files (24/48), mix, then set down track labels, then export both 24/48 and 16/44 versions, but I can't seem to be able to change the sample rate on whole track and keep the labels where they should be.

I change the project rate in the bottom left, and then in the top menu do Tracks > Resample after I'm done the last of my edits. It should resample in place based on the specified rate. Then do the export multiple as normal.

Whatever way works for you, that's just how I used to do it.

Use the latest Audacity Beta for best results. The Stable versions don't output correctly while converting sample rates, they pad each track with silence to make up the length lost by resampling, or something!?!? Very bogus.

qft, I got caught a bunch of times with this. This is part of what I was referencing with my line about the stuff moving and other bugs.

Why are you dithering down anyhow? Does anyone still use CD's? STOP DESTROYING MUSIC!!! Hard drives are cheap and the internet is fast!

I actually do use CDs when delivering stuff to bands because they don't want mp3s or to download flacs. There are some bands that want the original files untracked/untouched, but most want CDs.

Second, even with a ton of cash sunk into listening gear, I gain virtually nothing by 24 bit listening. I don't need to hear a cricket fart while the band rages on stage. I don't even export them for myself.

[morst]

I dither for space and because I am not at all an audiophile.  My only source of playback is halfway decent headphones out of a laptop so really the 24 bit difference is pretty much lost.  (I asked for an amp/dac for christmas but alas the request was forgotten about.)

Also, many more people will download the 16 bit version vs the 24.  Its just more convient.  I only recently started recording 24 bit so will back it up and put it out there, but only use the 16 bit.

I recently stopped with the 16 bit and I don't miss it at all. Perhaps owners of better headphones or even stereos would benefit from your better quality output? Maybe someday you will have better headphones and appreciate the difference?