Topic: Edirol R-44 - 4 Channel Recorder (Part II)

[BayTaynt3d]

When it comes to ENG type stuff, I don't think the R44 nor the Fostex are really replacements for a decent mixer, and as a FP24 owner (same as mixpre), I can vouch for that being one nice preamp. Quiet, clean, lots o gain, limiters, xlr in/out, a mini return for monitoring (try that with one of the all-in-ones), tape out (mini out), runs on AAs or external battery, responsive meters, and all in a nice small BOMBPROOF package. That thing is field production ready that's for sure. That said, there's nothing quite like running an all-in-one unit for certain things, just so much easier, smaller, and with the R-series, you've got 4 chans, so nice...

[Ozpeter]

Here's another mp3 sample from me - a studio recording made during a pianist's warm-up.  There's a short bit of the middle sized grand piano (Sennheiser MS pair located just clear of the lid), then I've edited in the silence after he had left the studio for a moment, for comparison.  Preamp level was -32dB, everything else apart from the MS effect was off.  I've not normalised the recording.

I'd taken along the R-44 for this session (actually a live radio broadcast) just for fun and hooked it into the quickly placed mics in the hope of getting some interesting samples.  Other mics were used for the broadcast itself (it looked kind of busy round that piano!).  As it happened I forgot to turn off and retrieve the R-44 after the warm-up and it ran on through the broadcast.  Which was fortunate, as the studio DAW locked up, leaving the only recording for the artist's archive the R-44 version!

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/22/1451533/Sample%20for%20net.mp3

[mfoley]

What a recorder!
First off...I'm a wedding videogapher.   When Frank (from Edirol) told me this baby was designed for the event videographer, he was surely right.  My gig last night was pretty typical.  When I arrived at the reception, I had about 15 minutes to setup all of my cameras and setup the R44 for recording. 

I quit long ago getting a direct feed from the DJ.  One, the sound is too sterile for my taste as there is no "room feel" that is so important when capturing this type of event.  Two, many wedding DJs are pretty ignorant of their equipment...at best they know how to set it up and turn it on.  Many are worried if you tap into their board you'll screw things ups :-)   

My capture process is fairly simple.  I use two Rode M3s to mic the PA Stack. One is used to capture thebass/subwoofer section of the PA and the other M3 to capture the mid/highs.  The other two channels of the R44 are feed with a AT 825 stereo mic placed to not only capture the overall PA, but to get good crowd noise.   This composite capture really rocks. 

The R44 makes this whole process very easy.  I need a device that I can set and forgot as I have other camera duties throughout the night...

[Kevin T]

Interesting use of 4 channels. I'm curious Why the separate sub and Main mics? Wouldnt a 2 channel unit capture the room audio as well?

[Ozpeter]

Interesting use of 4 channels. I'm curious Why the separate sub and Main mics? Wouldnt a 2 channel unit capture the room audio as well?

Not on four separate channels for subsequent remixing it wouldn't.  If you've got 15 mins total setup time for audio and video, there's no chance to sit there with your headphones cranked to the max in the noisy environment getting the sound just right - perhaps - into a stereo recorder.

[Kevin T]

Interesting use of 4 channels. I'm curious Why the separate sub and Main mics? Wouldnt a 2 channel unit capture the room audio as well?

Not on four separate channels for subsequent remixing it wouldn't.  If you've got 15 mins total setup time for audio and video, there's no chance to sit there with your headphones cranked to the max in the noisy environment getting the sound just right - perhaps - into a stereo recorder.

OK set up time is short but arent you losing the Lft & right separate stereo info via micing both mains. I guess I find the sub micing redundant/odd because I'd think thats what I use eq in post for?   

[mfoley]

Kevin,
about 99% of the reception DJs now run mono...so I use  a M3 mic to capture mids/highs from the stack and another M3 to get capture the base cabinet of the stack.  The other two channels are feed with an AT 825 steroe mic place (typically) mid point between the stack facing out toward the crowd to capture a stereo-like feel of the PA and crowd/room.  This arrangement may sound weird to pure tapers...but this has garnered some great audio for me...getting a direct feed is just too sterile in this video process....

[BayTaynt3d]

getting a direct feed is just too sterile in this video process....

That right there is something experienced tapers have known for quite a long while. The new tapers think soundboards are the holy grail, but most of us know better...

[Kevin T]

Kevin,
about 99% of the reception DJs now run mono...so I use  a M3 mic to capture mids/highs from the stack and another M3 to get capture the base cabinet of the stack.  The other two channels are feed with an AT 825 steroe mic place (typically) mid point between the stack facing out toward the crowd to capture a stereo-like feel of the PA and crowd/room.  This arrangement may sound weird to pure tapers...but this has garnered some great audio for me...getting a direct feed is just too sterile in this video process....

Thanks For that. I'm performing (a duo) at my sons wedding in 2 weeks. After playing  I plan on trying to use my Zoom H2 along with my digital camera to do some family comment / recording . The final result to be a .PPT slideshow + 2 ch audio file.

[Will_S]

Any samples out there of a PA recording with no external preamp?  All I've been able to find are the classical recordings (very nice and helpful WRT noise performance, but how do the pre's handle high SPLs?), matrices, or recordings with a V3 in front.

Also, based on the pictures the display looks very similar to the R09's, which is pretty much impossible to read in full sunlight.  Is the same true of the R-44?

[Rick]

Any samples out there of a PA recording with no external preamp?  All I've been able to find are the classical recordings (very nice and helpful WRT noise performance, but how do the pre's handle high SPLs?), matrices, or recordings with a V3 in front.

I'll try to post something tonight

[Gutbucket]

Kevin,
about 99% of the reception DJs now run mono...so I use  a M3 mic to capture mids/highs from the stack and another M3 to get capture the base cabinet of the stack.  The other two channels are feed with an AT 825 steroe mic place (typically) mid point between the stack facing out toward the crowd to capture a stereo-like feel of the PA and crowd/room.  This arrangement may sound weird to pure tapers...but this has garnered some great audio for me...getting a direct feed is just too sterile in this video process....

If slighty unorthadox, this sounds like a well reasoned, effective techinque and a good way to get control over both the frequency balance of the direct sound and the ratio of direct/reverberant sound in post, which are two major parts of dialing in our type, or any ambient, stereo recording.

As you may or may not be aware, it's rather common for multi-track recordings of PA amplified music to use two cardioid mic's pointed out at the crowd (null towards the PA) to pick up the ambient crowd sound, to be later mixed in to taste, similar to what you are doing.

[ascouserinnewyork]

Anyone discovered a suitable bag for this thing? Portabrace have nothing... yet. And the pleather case is just horrendous.

[NOLAfishwater]

mine should be getting here tomorrow. Also ordered a PNY 16gb card. hopefully it should run without any problems.

[Ozpeter]

Mine's living in a variety of containers so far -

- An HHB Portadat case, which is a bit big for it but it does have room for a backup Zoom H2!

- A padded lunchbag case

- A polythene minature crate originally intended for fishing accessories, but which holds the R-44 and its power supply and other essential bits very nicely.  Then that, and some other such mini crates for mics and a Behringer monitoring mixer (see my previous posts on monitoring...) and suchlike goes into a canvas holdall.  Have complete multitrack recording kit, will travel.

Today I used the R-44 with a couple of Naiant tieclip mics for an interview with a prominent Czech musician passing through here, and tomorrow it'll be doing the official recording of her jazz/folk concert for later FM radio broadcast.  I'm getting my money's-worth!