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Author Topic: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.  (Read 15533 times)

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Offline heathen

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2019, 06:57:34 AM »
recording made with internals on deck that was $150 new (Tascam DR-2D), which I much prefer to any Sony digital recorders....the internals deck actually outperformed the $500 mics this night.

if you're on dime, quality samples are in the comments.

it's all about what you know, and how you utilize it.


http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=652570

Ignore this man, he’s more than slightly retarded.

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Nothing shows a new taper what a classy bunch we are quite like an ad hominem attack.
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2019, 07:15:39 AM »
Agreed on the recorder. R07 and DR05 will both do the job just fine. As would the new A10
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Offline ycoop

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2019, 04:12:18 PM »
recording made with internals on deck that was $150 new (Tascam DR-2D), which I much prefer to any Sony digital recorders....the internals deck actually outperformed the $500 mics this night.

if you're on dime, quality samples are in the comments.

it's all about what you know, and how you utilize it.


http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=652570

Ignore this man, he’s more than slightly retarded.

Come on, retarded? Really?
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2019, 10:33:19 PM »
So, no one has recommended Countryman B3 mics. Not as expensive as DPA 4060 but they're the same size, have slightly more robust cables and sound just fine. They have a good max SPL and come in high and normal sensitivity ratings.

how do those do on high spl on PIP?

lookin at some budget mates for the ICD-UX560https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192831.0
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Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2019, 12:45:01 AM »
So, no one has recommended Countryman B3 mics. Not as expensive as DPA 4060 but they're the same size, have slightly more robust cables and sound just fine. They have a good max SPL and come in high and normal sensitivity ratings.

how do those do on high spl on PIP?

lookin at some budget mates for the ICD-UX560https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192831.0

I ran the b3's (b3>M10) for a solo Ryan Adams show (acoustic) and they were fine for that. I tried another time for a normal volume show and it was too much for the M10's PIP.

https://archive.org/details/radams2012-10-29.b3.flac24
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 12:51:57 AM by Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) »
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2019, 08:21:18 PM »
The PIP of the M10 I think is something like 2.5v. If you think you're show will be killer loud, put a battery box (or a small preamp) ahead of the recorder to protect the mics. Nothing replaces experience and experimentation to help cement these variables in your understanding of the game.  Good luck.

I've been using a battery box ever since a couple of bad experiences (13 years ago now) where I ended up with what should have been great recordings plagued with distortion. Yes, it's an extra item, but it's smaller than my recorder and never gets a second look from security (in my experience, anyway), so I'd rather be safe than have to trust my guesswork at SPLs.

Offline morst

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2019, 05:19:51 AM »

* ..So I scoot close or sit not so close as need be. (While it's not a perfect analog, I tend to think about sound waves behaving as light. The closer you are the brighter a light seems to be... the further back, for the same light, not so much.)
That is CORRECT, the "cube-square" or Inverse Square law indicates that light and sound do behave in a similar fashion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law
Quote
In photography and stage lighting, the inverse-square law is used to determine the "fall off" or the difference in illumination on a subject as it moves closer to or further from the light source. For quick approximations, it is enough to remember that doubling the distance reduces illumination to one quarter;[9] or similarly, to halve the illumination increase the distance by a factor of 1.4 (the square root of 2), and to double illumination, reduce the distance to 0.7 (square root of 1/2).


Sound in a gas
In acoustics, the sound pressure of a spherical wavefront radiating from a point source decreases by 50% as the distance r is doubled; measured in dB, the decrease is still 6.02 dB, since dB represents an intensity ratio.
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2019, 10:00:01 AM »

* ..So I scoot close or sit not so close as need be. (While it's not a perfect analog, I tend to think about sound waves behaving as light. The closer you are the brighter a light seems to be... the further back, for the same light, not so much.)
That is CORRECT, the "cube-square" or Inverse Square law indicates that light and sound do behave in a similar fashion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law
Quote
In photography and stage lighting, the inverse-square law is used to determine the "fall off" or the difference in illumination on a subject as it moves closer to or further from the light source. For quick approximations, it is enough to remember that doubling the distance reduces illumination to one quarter;[9] or similarly, to halve the illumination increase the distance by a factor of 1.4 (the square root of 2), and to double illumination, reduce the distance to 0.7 (square root of 1/2).


Sound in a gas
In acoustics, the sound pressure of a spherical wavefront radiating from a point source decreases by 50% as the distance r is doubled; measured in dB, the decrease is still 6.02 dB, since dB represents an intensity ratio.
We r getting way OT, but from my psychoacoustic days, we measured and found textbooks which say: while measuring a PA system from stage there is approximately a 6db drop in Sound Pressure Level (SPL) for every 10 feet of distance. (This is rule of thumb, not pure scientific, as specific frequencies will start dropping off more than 6dB per 10 feet at longer distances).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 11:24:57 AM by rocksuitcase »
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Online aaronji

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2019, 10:31:44 AM »
SPL and distance are inversely proportional. Double the distance, halve the SPL (-6 dBSPL). Halve the distance, double the SPL (+6 dBSPL).

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2019, 11:24:28 AM »
ack- I edited my post, it should have been 6dB per 10 feet; or more accurately, the formula Aaronji said Double the distance, halve the SPL (-6 dBSPL). Halve the distance, double the SPL (+6 dBSPL)
Moving waaaaay too fast this morning!
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When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2019, 12:56:19 PM »
in a room there is the reverberation radius where reflected sound makes all volume levels not decay according to the inverse square law
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Offline morst

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2019, 03:52:56 PM »
in a room there is the reverberation radius where reflected sound makes all volume levels not decay according to the inverse square law
Yeah- that is true too. Should we start an Inverse Square law thread?
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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2019, 04:50:21 PM »
Yes, the rule-of-thumb assumes a free field and some other things (like a point source). Even in a room, though, it is still a useful construct to consider, I think. The reverberant sound level and ambient noise are more-or-less constant everywhere in the room, so the relationship between the direct sound and distance still holds and, as you decrease the distance, you are increasing the proportion of direct sound recorded by an estimable quantity. The point source assumption may be a bigger issue, with repeaters and line arrays and whatnot. At least as I understand it...

In any event, the relationship between distance and sound pressure levels is not "inverse square" but just "inverse" (SPL is proportional to 1/r).

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2019, 05:00:50 PM »
My PIP experience w/the M10 is that the B3s, at least the ones I have, like a little more power. I switch to the high sensitivity*. The mics come in two sensitivity ratings, generally described as wireless or phantom powered. The former are rated at 140 dBA SPL while the phantom get a 10 dBA bump. Bought new, they're about half the cost of DPA 406x units. Check them out here.

* Part of taping is knowing your gear and any limitations that might be exposed under stressful conditions. In our game, the sound source, the proximity to it and the volume one might expect will dictate which gear kit you take to the show or how the one you have will perform. I don't do "metal" shows but some string bands or that jazz drummer's kick might test me. So I scoot close or sit not so close as need be. (While it's not a perfect analog, I tend to think about sound waves behaving as light. The closer you are the brighter a light seems to be... the further back, for the same light, not so much.)

The PIP of the M10 I think is something like 2.5v. If you think you're show will be killer loud, put a battery box (or a small preamp) ahead of the recorder to protect the mics. Nothing replaces experience and experimentation to help cement these variables in your understanding of the game.  Good luck.

I’ll testify on the B3s. Lots of great Ben jazz tapes made B3>m10. Closer to DPA 4061 than half as good. Punch way above their cost.
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Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2019, 06:22:58 PM »

* ..So I scoot close or sit not so close as need be. (While it's not a perfect analog, I tend to think about sound waves behaving as light. The closer you are the brighter a light seems to be... the further back, for the same light, not so much.)
That is CORRECT, the "cube-square" or Inverse Square law indicates that light and sound do behave in a similar fashion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law
Quote
In photography and stage lighting, the inverse-square law is used to determine the "fall off" or the difference in illumination on a subject as it moves closer to or further from the light source. For quick approximations, it is enough to remember that doubling the distance reduces illumination to one quarter;[9] or similarly, to halve the illumination increase the distance by a factor of 1.4 (the square root of 2), and to double illumination, reduce the distance to 0.7 (square root of 1/2).


Sound in a gas
In acoustics, the sound pressure of a spherical wavefront radiating from a point source decreases by 50% as the distance r is doubled; measured in dB, the decrease is still 6.02 dB, since dB represents an intensity ratio.

That’s all true, but don’t forget that a well tuned line array should provide more or less equal spl throughout the room

 

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