Topic: Church Audio gear vs. Rode SVM+Camera

[Ken Kaiser]

Hi Chris and TS crew,

I have been reading alot about Church mics/preamps at www.taperssection.com, and am very interested.  I have a couple questions though, and I wanted to make sure I know the best options.  There are alot of posts, so I'm not 100% sure of the current products.

First, my most common taping is folk music (amplified but not very loud, as well as acoustic only).  This is normally an open evironment, both indoors and outdoors.  The jams are most often not in what I'd consider good acoustic environments, usually just open, or in a barn, or in a church, or things like that.  Not in a theater or anything like that.

Second, I record my daughters orchestra and piano concerts.  These are acoustic, and the sites vary.  Usually not a "stealth" requirement, just can be a challenge to get to the right place without being too obtrusive to audience.

Third, an occasional "loud" rock concert.

I should mention that my primary task has been video...but for concerts the sound is more important than the video itself.  I generally video tape these events using Panasonic PV-GS500 and PV-GS400 camera's, to which I have added SignVideo XLR adapters and Rode Stereo Video Mic's (9v self powered condenser's).  This combination has yielded some very good sound, but usually my camera placement and mic placement for sound aren't in the same spot!...so, I'm trying to get better sound using my R09HR and my MTII.  I have used them for soundboard feeds, as well as standalone recorders, but I would really like to get the best sound possible, and especially for the piano and orchestra type stuff as low noise as possible.  Then I could use that for the sound for the video.

Lastly, there are times where I can only be right at the stage, or stuck in an audience where I need to be more "stealthy" than a camcorder with a big furry mic on top.  Also, one of the Church setups would let me have a small "standalone" setup with the R09HR or MTII/preamp/mics on a small light stand that I could put in a better location for sound to mix with the video later.

I have a couple options to work with, that can be good during specific times, especially in controlled environments and when I can carry a bunch of stuff, have power, etc...

Rode Stereo Video Mic's

2 x M-Audio Nova LDC Mic's + Behrenger UB802 mixer w/phantom power

M-Audio MTII

Edirol R09HR

Usually I have to record largely unattended...since I set the stuff up and then go on stage myself, so in those cases sometimes I get lucky and sometimes I don't.

So, with that in mind, I have a couple questions before ordering:

1.  Microphones - first of all, not being a specification expert on the mic's themselves, size not being an issue, how do you think Church mics would sound compared to what I have?  I want to get some, most likely the CA14 Card/Omni for better flexibility and for when I need to be more discrete, but if you could comment on the sound quality relative to what I have I would appreciate it.  I plan on ordering them because I need some small stealthy mic's, but I don't have a feel for the sound quality compared to what I can currently get.

2.  Preamp - When I use the R09HR, MTII, or my Panasonic camera's, all have a relatively high amount of hiss/noise when I record the acoustic stuff due to having to have the gain high enough for the relatively quiet source.  I think if I went with the 9100 or Ugly preamps I could improve this situation.  Of course I know it works with Church mic's, but would it work with my Rode SVM into the camera? 

If it helps you to have a better idea of the types of things I record, here are a couple samples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey_5U7yOceY - our family playing in a VFW hall, amplified, camera's scattered about the room.  Primary sound was the SVM on the main camera at the back of the room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVX0he7Xfdc&feature=related - our family outdoors, amplified, camera at base of stands (at the end the camera pans so you can see the venue better)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA_LF498nDQ - Daughter violin, acoustic, in a church, using Rode SVM>PVGS500

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_7URfY3Eyk - my friends band - this one was EARSPLITTING loud.  I mixed in some SBF which added clarity to what I picked up with the SVM>PVGS500

Sorry for the long post.  The Church Audio stuff looks perfect for what I am trying to do, but I want to get the right combination and have a better idea what results I can get vs. what I am getting now when size isn't an issue.

Thanks!

[jnorman34]

i listened to your daughter violin piece, and i would have to say the rode SVM sounds a bit tight to me, a little too restricted for good audio capture of a musical performance, and more suited to vocal pickup.  the rode seems to have a rather hyper/short shotgun kind of sound.

i generally do video separate from the main audio tracks, so i can do standard studio post processing on the audio and then sync it to the video.  it is not uncommon for the video and audio pickups to be in very different places.  it is part of the job to respond to different types of spaces and situations to get the best recording possible, and that sometimes means having more than one or two choices of mics available depending on the circumstances. 

[Ken Kaiser]

You are right!  I started as the "video dad", but I keep trying to get better audio now.

I like the idea of the small Church Audio equipment, because alot of the stuff I do is outdoors or without power, so the small, self-contained, battery powered equipment is appealing to me.  I usually have to carry several camera's, all the sound equipment, instruments, etc... so a small package is worth something to me, but I also want the highest quality I can get.

I still have alot to learn regarding mic placement though.  These forums are very helpful, but also need to "try and see" to continue to learn.

[powermonkey]

I can't really compare, because I don't have any experience with the setup you've already got, but I have to say that having a CA mics/pre combo is pretty damn versatile. I've taped quiet shows with good results with gain supplied by a CA preamp, and for loud shows I've gone with CA cards straight into my R09HR with very pleasing results indeed. I haven't taped My Bloody Valentine, or anything, but these have been pretty loud rock'n'roll bands.

[manitouman]

I've had great results with the Church Audio ST-11>CA 9100 preamp>MTII combo. But I use the TRS inputs instead of the 1/8" input. You'll have to turn the gain on the MTII all the way down and just use the gain on the preamp instead. The 1/8" input gave me some "hissing" noise, kind of what you'll hear on a cassette tape. It was a half acoustic/half electric show and I just won't use the 1/8" input ever again based on that experience.

Good luck on your purchase. Chris does have good products and he stands behind them whenever (if ever) you need repairs or replacements.